Council to cut benefits despite pleas to defer

Bucks Free Press: Council to cut benefits despite plea to defer Council to cut benefits despite plea to defer

*This story was updated at 2pm on December 18.

COUNCIL chiefs rubber-stamped proposals to slash benefits on Monday – despite pleas to defer the plan for a year.

Residents of working age who currently claim council tax support will lose out by an average of £300 a year under Wycombe District Council’s proposed new system, which comes in to play in April.

It will hit between 4,000-4,500 people in the district but pensioners and disabled residents will be protected from the changes.

The authority has been forced to come up with a new service after the existing one was scrapped by the Government - leaving a funding shortfall of roughly £1m.

Liberal Democrat members urged the ruling Conservatives at Full Council to opt for an 8.5 per cent reduction, instead of the now ratified 20 per cent cut, and dip into the authority’s estimated £2.5m reserves to cover the costs for a year to give claimants more time to prepare and adjust for the changes.

Cllr Brian Pollock, who proposed the alternative option, said: “It would show residents that while we recognise we have no alternative [but to make cuts] it would give them an opportunity to get their finances in order.”

Wycombe Labour leader Cllr Victoria Groulef wanted to scrutinise Cllr Pollock’s suggestion before she could back it, so urged the Tories to defer.

But that proposals were rejected by the Tories who said, while it was a tough decision to make, it was the best option on the table which had been backed by residents during a recent public consultation.

WDC Leader Cllr Alex Collingwood said: “We are trying to help residents across the whole of the district, this is the best way forward, residents have said it’s the best way forward, and we can review it [at a later date].”

The other option was to raise council tax - which would have worked out at about £13 extra per Band D property - but this will remain frozen.

Comments (33)

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9:49pm Mon 17 Dec 12

tigeran says...

This is fantastic news! Common sense has at last prevailed! Lets hope there are more to come! About time people on benefits experienced what everyone else has to, a recesion.
This is fantastic news! Common sense has at last prevailed! Lets hope there are more to come! About time people on benefits experienced what everyone else has to, a recesion. tigeran

10:05pm Mon 17 Dec 12

Disillusioned Optimist says...

I would imagine law abiding people on benefits experience worse than the 'recession' for the duration of their claim, this will just give them the choice of eating or heating in winter.
I would imagine law abiding people on benefits experience worse than the 'recession' for the duration of their claim, this will just give them the choice of eating or heating in winter. Disillusioned Optimist

11:12pm Mon 17 Dec 12

chris740 says...

about time to
about time to chris740

11:27pm Mon 17 Dec 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

… Wycombe District Council’s proposed new system, which comes in to play in April.
It will hit between 4,000-4,500 people in the district but pensioners and disabled residents will be protected from the changes.
The authority has been forced to come up with a new service …’


Most Council Tax ‘benefit’ as far as I am aware consists of being excused paying Council Tax.

I think we need detailed information from WDC and the BFP about how the new system will work – for instance if someone is without any funds and has been out of work for two years and excused paying Council Tax for that reason what will happen to them now – do they have to go to a loan shark or will they have to steal necessities (or small luxuries) because they have to divert their Job Seeker’s Allowance to paying Council Tax or is there going to be some other dispensation?
[quote]… Wycombe District Council’s proposed new system, which comes in to play in April. It will hit between 4,000-4,500 people in the district but pensioners and disabled residents will be protected from the changes. The authority has been forced to come up with a new service …’ [/quote] Most Council Tax ‘benefit’ as far as I am aware consists of being excused paying Council Tax. I think we need detailed information from WDC and the BFP about how the new system will work – for instance if someone is without any funds and has been out of work for two years and excused paying Council Tax for that reason what will happen to them now – do they have to go to a loan shark or will they have to steal necessities (or small luxuries) because they have to divert their Job Seeker’s Allowance to paying Council Tax or is there going to be some other dispensation? ImpeturbableLawrence

11:54pm Mon 17 Dec 12

Slacker says...

Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year...

Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish?

Necessities
Electricity - £20 a week
Heating Gas £30 a week
Food £20 a week?
Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged)
Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively

Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week?

**Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed.

Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week.

Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?
Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year... Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish? Necessities Electricity - £20 a week Heating Gas £30 a week Food £20 a week? Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged) Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week? **Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed. Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week. Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there? Slacker

9:40am Tue 18 Dec 12

Me, just me says...

Slacker wrote:
Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year... Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish? Necessities Electricity - £20 a week Heating Gas £30 a week Food £20 a week? Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged) Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week? **Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed. Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week. Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?
My council tax is £89 a month so they will be struggling even more than £5 a week...

It’s ridiculous when people think its ok to group all people together that are on benefits. Its a large and varied bunch ranging from drunks that use the money to pi$$ their lives away to single mothers with children and no income...how are the latter supposed to provide for themselves and their children now they have at least a further £89 a month in outgoings?

Don’t treat everyone on benefits the same, they are not all spongers and there are a lot of different circumstances. In the current job climate any one of you lot reading this message could lose your jobs tomorrow. Think about it. I’ve never been unemployed and I consider myself very lucky but its nice to know that if there was a blip in my life of employment then benefits would be there to support me in my time of need.
[quote][p][bold]Slacker[/bold] wrote: Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year... Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish? Necessities Electricity - £20 a week Heating Gas £30 a week Food £20 a week? Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged) Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week? **Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed. Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week. Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?[/p][/quote]My council tax is £89 a month so they will be struggling even more than £5 a week... It’s ridiculous when people think its ok to group all people together that are on benefits. Its a large and varied bunch ranging from drunks that use the money to pi$$ their lives away to single mothers with children and no income...how are the latter supposed to provide for themselves and their children now they have at least a further £89 a month in outgoings? Don’t treat everyone on benefits the same, they are not all spongers and there are a lot of different circumstances. In the current job climate any one of you lot reading this message could lose your jobs tomorrow. Think about it. I’ve never been unemployed and I consider myself very lucky but its nice to know that if there was a blip in my life of employment then benefits would be there to support me in my time of need. Me, just me

1:43pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Voyeur says...

WDC should create a special help desk to deal with the victims of this stupid policy. They can advise people on whether to not eat or not heat their homes. They will need a new team in the debt collection department to deal with non payers. They will need to book plenty of places in the County Court to deal with the bad debts, if the court will agree to deal with such small amounts.
WDC should create a special help desk to deal with the victims of this stupid policy. They can advise people on whether to not eat or not heat their homes. They will need a new team in the debt collection department to deal with non payers. They will need to book plenty of places in the County Court to deal with the bad debts, if the court will agree to deal with such small amounts. Voyeur

1:55pm Tue 18 Dec 12

tigeran says...

Voyeur wrote:
WDC should create a special help desk to deal with the victims of this stupid policy. They can advise people on whether to not eat or not heat their homes. They will need a new team in the debt collection department to deal with non payers. They will need to book plenty of places in the County Court to deal with the bad debts, if the court will agree to deal with such small amounts.
Why not give them lessons on how to live within their means, now theres a thought.............
....
[quote][p][bold]Voyeur[/bold] wrote: WDC should create a special help desk to deal with the victims of this stupid policy. They can advise people on whether to not eat or not heat their homes. They will need a new team in the debt collection department to deal with non payers. They will need to book plenty of places in the County Court to deal with the bad debts, if the court will agree to deal with such small amounts.[/p][/quote]Why not give them lessons on how to live within their means, now theres a thought............. .... tigeran

2:18pm Tue 18 Dec 12

miccles says...

Voyeur wrote:
WDC should create a special help desk to deal with the victims of this stupid policy. They can advise people on whether to not eat or not heat their homes. They will need a new team in the debt collection department to deal with non payers. They will need to book plenty of places in the County Court to deal with the bad debts, if the court will agree to deal with such small amounts.
"WDC should create a special help desk to deal with the victims of this stupid policy" ?????

The only victims in this, is the taxpayer, who have been funding these people for goodness knows how many years.
[quote][p][bold]Voyeur[/bold] wrote: WDC should create a special help desk to deal with the victims of this stupid policy. They can advise people on whether to not eat or not heat their homes. They will need a new team in the debt collection department to deal with non payers. They will need to book plenty of places in the County Court to deal with the bad debts, if the court will agree to deal with such small amounts.[/p][/quote]"WDC should create a special help desk to deal with the victims of this stupid policy" ????? The only victims in this, is the taxpayer, who have been funding these people for goodness knows how many years. miccles

2:59pm Tue 18 Dec 12

Namaste78 says...

Having stopped working to become a Carer for a severely disabled child I find some of the comments disgusting.

I save the tax payer approximately £3k a week due to the provisions my child requires.

Life is far from easy. Hospital apts, fighting for equipment to try and have some sort of quality of life rather than just surviving.

I have no debt, I am very wise with the pittance we survive on.
It was not through choice that my child chose to be born so ill. And no it wasn't a choice of mine for her to be born so ill.
Every penny is accounted for in this household. I cannot afford to eat 3 meals a day I survive on one to ensure BOTH my children can eat.
I did not ask for my husband to leave nearly 4 years ago, that was his choice, this hello benefits system.

My home has been adapted for my child. If I was to move I would be expected to repay back all the adaptations which have been done (and this isn't including the adaptations which are still being planned so we can actually gain entry safely into our home ..... Another battle) ..... Which brings me around to how disabled people and their families being the hardest minority group being hit because few houses meet out needs and if they do we are ten expected to pay back, with money we don't even have, all because we are simy surviving.

Prior to not working I was a high flyer ..... Look at me now? Ashamed to say I am in receipt of benefit yet not having a choice ...... There are plenty of families in the same situation as me .... Another worry on top of our daily battles AND topped off with being an outcast within our own society.

...... Help those that need the help.
...... An alcoholic made the choice, a conscious choice to lift their hand up and place that drink into their mouths, they get far more support than people whom have never had a choice.

How is the removal of money's be a good thing for those whom truly are so dependant upon the benefit system?
I can see if people whom truly are vulnerable being presented to a judge in court who will aimy laugh it back right out of court .... Would this be another waste of tax payers money too??????
Having stopped working to become a Carer for a severely disabled child I find some of the comments disgusting. I save the tax payer approximately £3k a week due to the provisions my child requires. Life is far from easy. Hospital apts, fighting for equipment to try and have some sort of quality of life rather than just surviving. I have no debt, I am very wise with the pittance we survive on. It was not through choice that my child chose to be born so ill. And no it wasn't a choice of mine for her to be born so ill. Every penny is accounted for in this household. I cannot afford to eat 3 meals a day I survive on one to ensure BOTH my children can eat. I did not ask for my husband to leave nearly 4 years ago, that was his choice, this hello benefits system. My home has been adapted for my child. If I was to move I would be expected to repay back all the adaptations which have been done (and this isn't including the adaptations which are still being planned so we can actually gain entry safely into our home ..... Another battle) ..... Which brings me around to how disabled people and their families being the hardest minority group being hit because few houses meet out needs and if they do we are ten expected to pay back, with money we don't even have, all because we are simy surviving. Prior to not working I was a high flyer ..... Look at me now? Ashamed to say I am in receipt of benefit yet not having a choice ...... There are plenty of families in the same situation as me .... Another worry on top of our daily battles AND topped off with being an outcast within our own society. ...... Help those that need the help. ...... An alcoholic made the choice, a conscious choice to lift their hand up and place that drink into their mouths, they get far more support than people whom have never had a choice. How is the removal of money's be a good thing for those whom truly are so dependant upon the benefit system? I can see if people whom truly are vulnerable being presented to a judge in court who will aimy laugh it back right out of court .... Would this be another waste of tax payers money too?????? Namaste78

6:24pm Tue 18 Dec 12

cezyboo says...

Namaste78 I wish you all the best and think your're doing a great job. I deliver food bags to local families and I am quite shocked by some of the comments on here. I only hope you never have to use the One Can Trust, it has opened my eyes as to why some of these people receive these bags. They have pride too and the children that suffer from the cuts is just so sad, what future do they have? I do know there are people that take advantage, its just not fair that others have to suffer. I do work and have a decent life, thats why I do what I do for charity. The beneifit cuts will also put pressure on those charities that are squeezed already.......
Namaste78 I wish you all the best and think your're doing a great job. I deliver food bags to local families and I am quite shocked by some of the comments on here. I only hope you never have to use the One Can Trust, it has opened my eyes as to why some of these people receive these bags. They have pride too and the children that suffer from the cuts is just so sad, what future do they have? I do know there are people that take advantage, its just not fair that others have to suffer. I do work and have a decent life, thats why I do what I do for charity. The beneifit cuts will also put pressure on those charities that are squeezed already....... cezyboo

6:24pm Tue 18 Dec 12

townraider says...

Namaste78 wrote:
Having stopped working to become a Carer for a severely disabled child I find some of the comments disgusting.

I save the tax payer approximately £3k a week due to the provisions my child requires.

Life is far from easy. Hospital apts, fighting for equipment to try and have some sort of quality of life rather than just surviving.

I have no debt, I am very wise with the pittance we survive on.
It was not through choice that my child chose to be born so ill. And no it wasn't a choice of mine for her to be born so ill.
Every penny is accounted for in this household. I cannot afford to eat 3 meals a day I survive on one to ensure BOTH my children can eat.
I did not ask for my husband to leave nearly 4 years ago, that was his choice, this hello benefits system.

My home has been adapted for my child. If I was to move I would be expected to repay back all the adaptations which have been done (and this isn't including the adaptations which are still being planned so we can actually gain entry safely into our home ..... Another battle) ..... Which brings me around to how disabled people and their families being the hardest minority group being hit because few houses meet out needs and if they do we are ten expected to pay back, with money we don't even have, all because we are simy surviving.

Prior to not working I was a high flyer ..... Look at me now? Ashamed to say I am in receipt of benefit yet not having a choice ...... There are plenty of families in the same situation as me .... Another worry on top of our daily battles AND topped off with being an outcast within our own society.

...... Help those that need the help.
...... An alcoholic made the choice, a conscious choice to lift their hand up and place that drink into their mouths, they get far more support than people whom have never had a choice.

How is the removal of money's be a good thing for those whom truly are so dependant upon the benefit system?
I can see if people whom truly are vulnerable being presented to a judge in court who will aimy laugh it back right out of court .... Would this be another waste of tax payers money too??????
Bless you for being so open.
Its a shame this "scrooge like" council doesn't listen!!
[quote][p][bold]Namaste78[/bold] wrote: Having stopped working to become a Carer for a severely disabled child I find some of the comments disgusting. I save the tax payer approximately £3k a week due to the provisions my child requires. Life is far from easy. Hospital apts, fighting for equipment to try and have some sort of quality of life rather than just surviving. I have no debt, I am very wise with the pittance we survive on. It was not through choice that my child chose to be born so ill. And no it wasn't a choice of mine for her to be born so ill. Every penny is accounted for in this household. I cannot afford to eat 3 meals a day I survive on one to ensure BOTH my children can eat. I did not ask for my husband to leave nearly 4 years ago, that was his choice, this hello benefits system. My home has been adapted for my child. If I was to move I would be expected to repay back all the adaptations which have been done (and this isn't including the adaptations which are still being planned so we can actually gain entry safely into our home ..... Another battle) ..... Which brings me around to how disabled people and their families being the hardest minority group being hit because few houses meet out needs and if they do we are ten expected to pay back, with money we don't even have, all because we are simy surviving. Prior to not working I was a high flyer ..... Look at me now? Ashamed to say I am in receipt of benefit yet not having a choice ...... There are plenty of families in the same situation as me .... Another worry on top of our daily battles AND topped off with being an outcast within our own society. ...... Help those that need the help. ...... An alcoholic made the choice, a conscious choice to lift their hand up and place that drink into their mouths, they get far more support than people whom have never had a choice. How is the removal of money's be a good thing for those whom truly are so dependant upon the benefit system? I can see if people whom truly are vulnerable being presented to a judge in court who will aimy laugh it back right out of court .... Would this be another waste of tax payers money too??????[/p][/quote]Bless you for being so open. Its a shame this "scrooge like" council doesn't listen!! townraider

9:27pm Tue 18 Dec 12

demoness the second says...

Namaste78 wrote:
Having stopped working to become a Carer for a severely disabled child I find some of the comments disgusting.

I save the tax payer approximately £3k a week due to the provisions my child requires.

Life is far from easy. Hospital apts, fighting for equipment to try and have some sort of quality of life rather than just surviving.

I have no debt, I am very wise with the pittance we survive on.
It was not through choice that my child chose to be born so ill. And no it wasn't a choice of mine for her to be born so ill.
Every penny is accounted for in this household. I cannot afford to eat 3 meals a day I survive on one to ensure BOTH my children can eat.
I did not ask for my husband to leave nearly 4 years ago, that was his choice, this hello benefits system.

My home has been adapted for my child. If I was to move I would be expected to repay back all the adaptations which have been done (and this isn't including the adaptations which are still being planned so we can actually gain entry safely into our home ..... Another battle) ..... Which brings me around to how disabled people and their families being the hardest minority group being hit because few houses meet out needs and if they do we are ten expected to pay back, with money we don't even have, all because we are simy surviving.

Prior to not working I was a high flyer ..... Look at me now? Ashamed to say I am in receipt of benefit yet not having a choice ...... There are plenty of families in the same situation as me .... Another worry on top of our daily battles AND topped off with being an outcast within our own society.

...... Help those that need the help.
...... An alcoholic made the choice, a conscious choice to lift their hand up and place that drink into their mouths, they get far more support than people whom have never had a choice.

How is the removal of money's be a good thing for those whom truly are so dependant upon the benefit system?
I can see if people whom truly are vulnerable being presented to a judge in court who will aimy laugh it back right out of court .... Would this be another waste of tax payers money too??????
So Tigeran et al who thinks that benefits should be cut as all benefit claimants are scroungers.
Care to answer this one?
Because THESE people will be hit the hardest.
[quote][p][bold]Namaste78[/bold] wrote: Having stopped working to become a Carer for a severely disabled child I find some of the comments disgusting. I save the tax payer approximately £3k a week due to the provisions my child requires. Life is far from easy. Hospital apts, fighting for equipment to try and have some sort of quality of life rather than just surviving. I have no debt, I am very wise with the pittance we survive on. It was not through choice that my child chose to be born so ill. And no it wasn't a choice of mine for her to be born so ill. Every penny is accounted for in this household. I cannot afford to eat 3 meals a day I survive on one to ensure BOTH my children can eat. I did not ask for my husband to leave nearly 4 years ago, that was his choice, this hello benefits system. My home has been adapted for my child. If I was to move I would be expected to repay back all the adaptations which have been done (and this isn't including the adaptations which are still being planned so we can actually gain entry safely into our home ..... Another battle) ..... Which brings me around to how disabled people and their families being the hardest minority group being hit because few houses meet out needs and if they do we are ten expected to pay back, with money we don't even have, all because we are simy surviving. Prior to not working I was a high flyer ..... Look at me now? Ashamed to say I am in receipt of benefit yet not having a choice ...... There are plenty of families in the same situation as me .... Another worry on top of our daily battles AND topped off with being an outcast within our own society. ...... Help those that need the help. ...... An alcoholic made the choice, a conscious choice to lift their hand up and place that drink into their mouths, they get far more support than people whom have never had a choice. How is the removal of money's be a good thing for those whom truly are so dependant upon the benefit system? I can see if people whom truly are vulnerable being presented to a judge in court who will aimy laugh it back right out of court .... Would this be another waste of tax payers money too??????[/p][/quote]So Tigeran et al who thinks that benefits should be cut as all benefit claimants are scroungers. Care to answer this one? Because THESE people will be hit the hardest. demoness the second

11:33pm Tue 18 Dec 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

tigeran wrote:
Voyeur wrote:
WDC should create a special help desk to deal with the victims of this stupid policy. They can advise people on whether to not eat or not heat their homes. They will need a new team in the debt collection department to deal with non payers. They will need to book plenty of places in the County Court to deal with the bad debts, if the court will agree to deal with such small amounts.
Why not give them lessons on how to live within their means, now theres a thought.............

....
Why not give them lessons on how to live within their means, now theres a thought


I think that would be a case of teaching your grandmother to suck eggs.

Why is it that these disgusting benefits drones seem to turn up when there has been a downturn in the economy living a life of luxury on inadequate wages and walking everywhere to save bus fares and once trade and industry pick up they all start to man up again and get jobs?
[quote][p][bold]tigeran[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Voyeur[/bold] wrote: WDC should create a special help desk to deal with the victims of this stupid policy. They can advise people on whether to not eat or not heat their homes. They will need a new team in the debt collection department to deal with non payers. They will need to book plenty of places in the County Court to deal with the bad debts, if the court will agree to deal with such small amounts.[/p][/quote]Why not give them lessons on how to live within their means, now theres a thought............. ....[/p][/quote][italic] [quote] Why not give them lessons on how to live within their means, now theres a thought[/quote][/italic] I think that would be a case of teaching your grandmother to suck eggs. Why is it that these disgusting benefits drones seem to turn up when there has been a downturn in the economy living a life of luxury on inadequate wages and walking everywhere to save bus fares and once trade and industry pick up they all start to man up again and get jobs? ImpeturbableLawrence

9:41am Wed 19 Dec 12

tigeran says...

demoness the second wrote:
Namaste78 wrote:
Having stopped working to become a Carer for a severely disabled child I find some of the comments disgusting.

I save the tax payer approximately £3k a week due to the provisions my child requires.

Life is far from easy. Hospital apts, fighting for equipment to try and have some sort of quality of life rather than just surviving.

I have no debt, I am very wise with the pittance we survive on.
It was not through choice that my child chose to be born so ill. And no it wasn't a choice of mine for her to be born so ill.
Every penny is accounted for in this household. I cannot afford to eat 3 meals a day I survive on one to ensure BOTH my children can eat.
I did not ask for my husband to leave nearly 4 years ago, that was his choice, this hello benefits system.

My home has been adapted for my child. If I was to move I would be expected to repay back all the adaptations which have been done (and this isn't including the adaptations which are still being planned so we can actually gain entry safely into our home ..... Another battle) ..... Which brings me around to how disabled people and their families being the hardest minority group being hit because few houses meet out needs and if they do we are ten expected to pay back, with money we don't even have, all because we are simy surviving.

Prior to not working I was a high flyer ..... Look at me now? Ashamed to say I am in receipt of benefit yet not having a choice ...... There are plenty of families in the same situation as me .... Another worry on top of our daily battles AND topped off with being an outcast within our own society.

...... Help those that need the help.
...... An alcoholic made the choice, a conscious choice to lift their hand up and place that drink into their mouths, they get far more support than people whom have never had a choice.

How is the removal of money's be a good thing for those whom truly are so dependant upon the benefit system?
I can see if people whom truly are vulnerable being presented to a judge in court who will aimy laugh it back right out of court .... Would this be another waste of tax payers money too??????
So Tigeran et al who thinks that benefits should be cut as all benefit claimants are scroungers.
Care to answer this one?
Because THESE people will be hit the hardest.
Yes certainly. If this person is genuine then this is exactly who help should go to, I have never said anything other than this but people, like yourself, seem to like to put there own slant on this and exaggerate as they feel the need to have a 'villain' to asign blame to, the problem is a lot of it goes to all the wrong people. When I say benefits should be slashed I mean they should be directed and engineered in a way that only the very needy, like Namste78 would get help. I am still in favour of slashing benefits but in the right places, but until our politicians stop worring about how best to win the next election rather than whats best for the country, this will never happen. The benefits bill is far too large and something needs to give. On one side you have the likes of Namste78, on the other you have people like Abu Qatada costing the state £50k a year in benefits, a 5 bedroom home, etc, etc yet they are both lumped into the same catagory of claiming benefits. It needs to be separated so you tell me, where the hell do we go from here?
[quote][p][bold]demoness the second[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Namaste78[/bold] wrote: Having stopped working to become a Carer for a severely disabled child I find some of the comments disgusting. I save the tax payer approximately £3k a week due to the provisions my child requires. Life is far from easy. Hospital apts, fighting for equipment to try and have some sort of quality of life rather than just surviving. I have no debt, I am very wise with the pittance we survive on. It was not through choice that my child chose to be born so ill. And no it wasn't a choice of mine for her to be born so ill. Every penny is accounted for in this household. I cannot afford to eat 3 meals a day I survive on one to ensure BOTH my children can eat. I did not ask for my husband to leave nearly 4 years ago, that was his choice, this hello benefits system. My home has been adapted for my child. If I was to move I would be expected to repay back all the adaptations which have been done (and this isn't including the adaptations which are still being planned so we can actually gain entry safely into our home ..... Another battle) ..... Which brings me around to how disabled people and their families being the hardest minority group being hit because few houses meet out needs and if they do we are ten expected to pay back, with money we don't even have, all because we are simy surviving. Prior to not working I was a high flyer ..... Look at me now? Ashamed to say I am in receipt of benefit yet not having a choice ...... There are plenty of families in the same situation as me .... Another worry on top of our daily battles AND topped off with being an outcast within our own society. ...... Help those that need the help. ...... An alcoholic made the choice, a conscious choice to lift their hand up and place that drink into their mouths, they get far more support than people whom have never had a choice. How is the removal of money's be a good thing for those whom truly are so dependant upon the benefit system? I can see if people whom truly are vulnerable being presented to a judge in court who will aimy laugh it back right out of court .... Would this be another waste of tax payers money too??????[/p][/quote]So Tigeran et al who thinks that benefits should be cut as all benefit claimants are scroungers. Care to answer this one? Because THESE people will be hit the hardest.[/p][/quote]Yes certainly. If this person is genuine then this is exactly who help should go to, I have never said anything other than this but people, like yourself, seem to like to put there own slant on this and exaggerate as they feel the need to have a 'villain' to asign blame to, the problem is a lot of it goes to all the wrong people. When I say benefits should be slashed I mean they should be directed and engineered in a way that only the very needy, like Namste78 would get help. I am still in favour of slashing benefits but in the right places, but until our politicians stop worring about how best to win the next election rather than whats best for the country, this will never happen. The benefits bill is far too large and something needs to give. On one side you have the likes of Namste78, on the other you have people like Abu Qatada costing the state £50k a year in benefits, a 5 bedroom home, etc, etc yet they are both lumped into the same catagory of claiming benefits. It needs to be separated so you tell me, where the hell do we go from here? tigeran

1:20pm Wed 19 Dec 12

demoness the second says...

I live in Aylesbury. My council tax will be rising by 26p a month from April because the council have decided to try and maintain services.
I think I can manage 26p a month.
And Tigeran I do share your frustration but the trouble is you do not make it clear and your posts do appear to be tarring all benefits claimants with the same brush which is neither fair nor accurate :(
I live in Aylesbury. My council tax will be rising by 26p a month from April because the council have decided to try and maintain services. I think I can manage 26p a month. And Tigeran I do share your frustration but the trouble is you do not make it clear and your posts do appear to be tarring all benefits claimants with the same brush which is neither fair nor accurate :( demoness the second

2:37pm Wed 19 Dec 12

Slacker says...

A note to Namaste78, it is said that elderly and disabled people will be exempt from these cuts so as a parent of a disabled child you may also be exempt.

So advice is to give the council tax department a ring and see how you stand. No point in worrying if it turns out you are not affected.
A note to Namaste78, it is said that elderly and disabled people will be exempt from these cuts so as a parent of a disabled child you may also be exempt. So advice is to give the council tax department a ring and see how you stand. No point in worrying if it turns out you are not affected. Slacker

8:02pm Wed 19 Dec 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

demoness the second wrote:
I live in Aylesbury. My council tax will be rising by 26p a month from April because the council have decided to try and maintain services.
I think I can manage 26p a month.
And Tigeran I do share your frustration but the trouble is you do not make it clear and your posts do appear to be tarring all benefits claimants with the same brush which is neither fair nor accurate :(
I work for a charity that employs volunteers - many of them are unemployed or retired. These volunteers are people of every sort and every few months one of them gets a job and goes - while they are with us they are an asset and being complimented for their reliability intelligence and professionalism et cetera, reassures them that they are still normal people with adult virtues. Any expenses they meet - for example bus fares - have to be reimbursed on the same day or the next one as they are usually people living on the very edge of solvency.

I can't help wondering where tigeran gets her facts from - I have yet to see people who live on the dole out of choice or are comfortable doing so - being in a job or on the 'rock and roll' seems to be something arranged for us by the super-rich in Wall Street and the City of London (often British residents but not British taxpayers) rather than a luxurious lifestyle choice by people of average skills whose only option is to work hard for others.
[quote][p][bold]demoness the second[/bold] wrote: I live in Aylesbury. My council tax will be rising by 26p a month from April because the council have decided to try and maintain services. I think I can manage 26p a month. And Tigeran I do share your frustration but the trouble is you do not make it clear and your posts do appear to be tarring all benefits claimants with the same brush which is neither fair nor accurate :([/p][/quote]I work for a charity that employs volunteers - many of them are unemployed or retired. These volunteers are people of every sort and every few months one of them gets a job and goes - while they are with us they are an asset and being complimented for their reliability intelligence and professionalism et cetera, reassures them that they are still normal people with adult virtues. Any expenses they meet - for example bus fares - have to be reimbursed on the same day or the next one as they are usually people living on the very edge of solvency. I can't help wondering where tigeran gets her facts from - I have yet to see people who live on the dole out of choice or are comfortable doing so - being in a job or on the 'rock and roll' seems to be something arranged for us by the super-rich in Wall Street and the City of London (often British residents but not British taxpayers) rather than a luxurious lifestyle choice by people of average skills whose only option is to work hard for others. ImpeturbableLawrence

8:10pm Wed 19 Dec 12

demoness the second says...

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
demoness the second wrote:
I live in Aylesbury. My council tax will be rising by 26p a month from April because the council have decided to try and maintain services.
I think I can manage 26p a month.
And Tigeran I do share your frustration but the trouble is you do not make it clear and your posts do appear to be tarring all benefits claimants with the same brush which is neither fair nor accurate :(
I work for a charity that employs volunteers - many of them are unemployed or retired. These volunteers are people of every sort and every few months one of them gets a job and goes - while they are with us they are an asset and being complimented for their reliability intelligence and professionalism et cetera, reassures them that they are still normal people with adult virtues. Any expenses they meet - for example bus fares - have to be reimbursed on the same day or the next one as they are usually people living on the very edge of solvency.

I can't help wondering where tigeran gets her facts from - I have yet to see people who live on the dole out of choice or are comfortable doing so - being in a job or on the 'rock and roll' seems to be something arranged for us by the super-rich in Wall Street and the City of London (often British residents but not British taxpayers) rather than a luxurious lifestyle choice by people of average skills whose only option is to work hard for others.
I thought Tigeran was a blokey?
[quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]demoness the second[/bold] wrote: I live in Aylesbury. My council tax will be rising by 26p a month from April because the council have decided to try and maintain services. I think I can manage 26p a month. And Tigeran I do share your frustration but the trouble is you do not make it clear and your posts do appear to be tarring all benefits claimants with the same brush which is neither fair nor accurate :([/p][/quote]I work for a charity that employs volunteers - many of them are unemployed or retired. These volunteers are people of every sort and every few months one of them gets a job and goes - while they are with us they are an asset and being complimented for their reliability intelligence and professionalism et cetera, reassures them that they are still normal people with adult virtues. Any expenses they meet - for example bus fares - have to be reimbursed on the same day or the next one as they are usually people living on the very edge of solvency. I can't help wondering where tigeran gets her facts from - I have yet to see people who live on the dole out of choice or are comfortable doing so - being in a job or on the 'rock and roll' seems to be something arranged for us by the super-rich in Wall Street and the City of London (often British residents but not British taxpayers) rather than a luxurious lifestyle choice by people of average skills whose only option is to work hard for others.[/p][/quote]I thought Tigeran was a blokey? demoness the second

8:16pm Wed 19 Dec 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

I was sure I had heard you and others calling using female pronouns about 'tigeran' and I had come to the conclusion that 'tigeran' was a version of 'Tiger Anne'.

Maybe I got it wrong.

It's not important - what tigeran says is important and 'she' or 'her' is shorter than 'tigeran' or tigeran's' every time
I was sure I had heard you and others calling using female pronouns about 'tigeran' and I had come to the conclusion that 'tigeran' was a version of 'Tiger Anne'. Maybe I got it wrong. It's not important - what tigeran says is important and 'she' or 'her' is shorter than 'tigeran' or tigeran's' every time ImpeturbableLawrence

8:18pm Wed 19 Dec 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

(Using 'tigeran' or tigeran's' every time would avoid the necessity of deciding on gender in the absenceof certainty.)
(Using 'tigeran' or tigeran's' [and 'his or her' constructions] every time would avoid the necessity of deciding on gender in the absenceof certainty.) ImpeturbableLawrence

8:23pm Wed 19 Dec 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

(Somehow I can't imagine a bloke being so furious and vicious as 'tigeran' is - maybe I'm being sexist here.

I imagine a bloke laughing at the idea someone has put something over on the government and the Social Security, even though he was contributing to it through his taxes himself.)
(Somehow I can't imagine a bloke being so furious and vicious as 'tigeran' is - maybe I'm being sexist here. I imagine a bloke laughing at the idea someone has put something over on the government and the Social Security, even though he was contributing to it through his taxes himself.) ImpeturbableLawrence

8:28pm Wed 19 Dec 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

Having said all that with laughing detachment I must say I get angry at some of the tax payment and other dodges the well-off put over on the rest of us - that is real however and ignored by those who run the country - while tigeran's army of dole scroungers is probably miles smaller than tigeran seems to believe or an urban myth of the right.
Having said all that with laughing detachment I must say I get angry at some of the tax payment and other dodges the well-off put over on the rest of us - that is real however and ignored by those who run the country - while tigeran's army of dole scroungers is probably miles smaller than tigeran seems to believe or an urban myth of the right. ImpeturbableLawrence

5:50pm Thu 20 Dec 12

washondo says...

I would encourage correspondents to refer to the Beveridge objectives regarding The Welfare State.
~
Want (need) interpretable nearly 70 years on - mainly addressed - no bodies in the street other than those who choose. Ought not to be confused with current "want it all and want it now" mentality
~
Disease - thanks to the magnificent NHS, medical research, vaccination programmes and penicillin, resolved.
~
Ignorance - thanks to Tony we can apparently sit on our bums and be educated for the whole of our lives (to no economic advantage). Failed.
~
Squalor - will always be a choice, however clean running water and sewage have mainly addressed this.
~
Idleness - never whole heartedly addressed since the economy has been mainly boyant since the passing of the Bill. Regrettably laziness was never criminalised. The current government is now castigated for trying to introduce the last of the requirements for the Welfare State to work - work.
~
Lord Beveridge should be spinning in his grave.
~
Nothing is for nothing.
I would encourage correspondents to refer to the Beveridge objectives regarding The Welfare State. ~ Want (need) interpretable nearly 70 years on - mainly addressed - no bodies in the street other than those who choose. Ought not to be confused with current "want it all and want it now" mentality ~ Disease - thanks to the magnificent NHS, medical research, vaccination programmes and penicillin, resolved. ~ Ignorance - thanks to Tony we can apparently sit on our bums and be educated for the whole of our lives (to no economic advantage). Failed. ~ Squalor - will always be a choice, however clean running water and sewage have mainly addressed this. ~ Idleness - never whole heartedly addressed since the economy has been mainly boyant since the passing of the Bill. Regrettably laziness was never criminalised. The current government is now castigated for trying to introduce the last of the requirements for the Welfare State to work - work. ~ Lord Beveridge should be spinning in his grave. ~ Nothing is for nothing. washondo

11:32am Sat 22 Dec 12

humbug77 says...

Slacker wrote:
Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year...

Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish?

Necessities
Electricity - £20 a week
Heating Gas £30 a week
Food £20 a week?
Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged)
Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively

Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week?

**Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed.

Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week.

Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?
Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work!
[quote][p][bold]Slacker[/bold] wrote: Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year... Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish? Necessities Electricity - £20 a week Heating Gas £30 a week Food £20 a week? Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged) Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week? **Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed. Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week. Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?[/p][/quote]Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work! humbug77

9:45pm Sat 22 Dec 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

washondo wrote:
I would encourage correspondents to refer to the Beveridge objectives regarding The Welfare State.
~
Want (need) interpretable nearly 70 years on - mainly addressed - no bodies in the street other than those who choose. Ought not to be confused with current "want it all and want it now" mentality
~
Disease - thanks to the magnificent NHS, medical research, vaccination programmes and penicillin, resolved.
~
Ignorance - thanks to Tony we can apparently sit on our bums and be educated for the whole of our lives (to no economic advantage). Failed.
~
Squalor - will always be a choice, however clean running water and sewage have mainly addressed this.
~
Idleness - never whole heartedly addressed since the economy has been mainly boyant since the passing of the Bill. Regrettably laziness was never criminalised. The current government is now castigated for trying to introduce the last of the requirements for the Welfare State to work - work.
~
Lord Beveridge should be spinning in his grave.
~
Nothing is for nothing.
I would encourage correspondents to refer to the Beveridge objectives regarding The Welfare State.

Why would you encourage us to do that – to what purpose?


Want (need) interpretable nearly 70 years on - mainly addressed - no bodies in the street other than those who choose. Ought not to be confused with current "want it all and want it now" mentality



Well now we have the take of a very solemn and silly man on the 1942 Beveridge Report and how far the silly man thinks its aims have been achieved in modern Britain.


What relevance has the Report and the silly man’s take on it to the exigencies of Britain after the Credit Crunch – brought on by the very richest and most influential people in our societies rather than single mums on housing benefit?


Lord Beveridge should be spinning in his grave.


I would think he is scratching his head if people beyond the grave can read the BFP on the internet and he has read the thoughts of 'washondo'.
[quote][p][bold]washondo[/bold] wrote: I would encourage correspondents to refer to the Beveridge objectives regarding The Welfare State. ~ Want (need) interpretable nearly 70 years on - mainly addressed - no bodies in the street other than those who choose. Ought not to be confused with current "want it all and want it now" mentality ~ Disease - thanks to the magnificent NHS, medical research, vaccination programmes and penicillin, resolved. ~ Ignorance - thanks to Tony we can apparently sit on our bums and be educated for the whole of our lives (to no economic advantage). Failed. ~ Squalor - will always be a choice, however clean running water and sewage have mainly addressed this. ~ Idleness - never whole heartedly addressed since the economy has been mainly boyant since the passing of the Bill. Regrettably laziness was never criminalised. The current government is now castigated for trying to introduce the last of the requirements for the Welfare State to work - work. ~ Lord Beveridge should be spinning in his grave. ~ Nothing is for nothing.[/p][/quote][italic] [quote] I would encourage correspondents to refer to the Beveridge objectives regarding The Welfare State. [/quote][/italic] [italic]Why [/italic]would you encourage us to do that – to what purpose? [italic] [quote] Want (need) interpretable nearly 70 years on - mainly addressed - no bodies in the street other than those who choose. Ought not to be confused with current "want it all and want it now" mentality [/quote][/italic] Well now we have the take of a very solemn and silly man on the 1942 Beveridge Report and how far the silly man thinks its aims have been achieved in modern Britain. What relevance has the Report and the silly man’s take on it to the exigencies of Britain after the Credit Crunch – brought on by the very richest and most influential people in our societies rather than single mums on housing benefit? [italic] [quote] Lord Beveridge should be spinning in his grave. [/quote][/italic] I would think he is scratching his head if people beyond the grave can read the BFP on the internet and he has read the thoughts of 'washondo'. ImpeturbableLawrence

9:48pm Sat 22 Dec 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

humbug77 wrote:
Slacker wrote:
Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year...

Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish?

Necessities
Electricity - £20 a week
Heating Gas £30 a week
Food £20 a week?
Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged)
Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively

Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week?

**Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed.

Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week.

Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?
Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work!
.


I see it every single day and wonder why I work!


If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not give try giving up working?
[quote][p][bold]humbug77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Slacker[/bold] wrote: Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year... Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish? Necessities Electricity - £20 a week Heating Gas £30 a week Food £20 a week? Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged) Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week? **Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed. Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week. Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?[/p][/quote]Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work![/p][/quote]. [italic] [quote] I see it every single day and wonder why I work! [/quote][/italic] If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not give try giving up working? ImpeturbableLawrence

9:49pm Sat 22 Dec 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

humbug77 wrote:
Slacker wrote:
Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year...

Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish?

Necessities
Electricity - £20 a week
Heating Gas £30 a week
Food £20 a week?
Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged)
Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively

Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week?

**Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed.

Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week.

Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?
Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work!
.


I see it every single day and wonder why I work!


If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not try giving up working?
[quote][p][bold]humbug77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Slacker[/bold] wrote: Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year... Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish? Necessities Electricity - £20 a week Heating Gas £30 a week Food £20 a week? Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged) Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week? **Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed. Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week. Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?[/p][/quote]Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work![/p][/quote]. [italic] [quote] I see it every single day and wonder why I work! [/quote][/italic] If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not try giving up working? ImpeturbableLawrence

7:28am Sun 23 Dec 12

washondo says...

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
washondo wrote:
I would encourage correspondents to refer to the Beveridge objectives regarding The Welfare State.
~
Want (need) interpretable nearly 70 years on - mainly addressed - no bodies in the street other than those who choose. Ought not to be confused with current "want it all and want it now" mentality
~
Disease - thanks to the magnificent NHS, medical research, vaccination programmes and penicillin, resolved.
~
Ignorance - thanks to Tony we can apparently sit on our bums and be educated for the whole of our lives (to no economic advantage). Failed.
~
Squalor - will always be a choice, however clean running water and sewage have mainly addressed this.
~
Idleness - never whole heartedly addressed since the economy has been mainly boyant since the passing of the Bill. Regrettably laziness was never criminalised. The current government is now castigated for trying to introduce the last of the requirements for the Welfare State to work - work.
~
Lord Beveridge should be spinning in his grave.
~
Nothing is for nothing.
I would encourage correspondents to refer to the Beveridge objectives regarding The Welfare State.

Why would you encourage us to do that – to what purpose?


Want (need) interpretable nearly 70 years on - mainly addressed - no bodies in the street other than those who choose. Ought not to be confused with current "want it all and want it now" mentality



Well now we have the take of a very solemn and silly man on the 1942 Beveridge Report and how far the silly man thinks its aims have been achieved in modern Britain.


What relevance has the Report and the silly man’s take on it to the exigencies of Britain after the Credit Crunch – brought on by the very richest and most influential people in our societies rather than single mums on housing benefit?


Lord Beveridge should be spinning in his grave.


I would think he is scratching his head if people beyond the grave can read the BFP on the internet and he has read the thoughts of 'washondo'.
Acid for breakfast again? If you don't understand, just try a little harder. Besides every other correspondent, do you even hate yourself?
[quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]washondo[/bold] wrote: I would encourage correspondents to refer to the Beveridge objectives regarding The Welfare State. ~ Want (need) interpretable nearly 70 years on - mainly addressed - no bodies in the street other than those who choose. Ought not to be confused with current "want it all and want it now" mentality ~ Disease - thanks to the magnificent NHS, medical research, vaccination programmes and penicillin, resolved. ~ Ignorance - thanks to Tony we can apparently sit on our bums and be educated for the whole of our lives (to no economic advantage). Failed. ~ Squalor - will always be a choice, however clean running water and sewage have mainly addressed this. ~ Idleness - never whole heartedly addressed since the economy has been mainly boyant since the passing of the Bill. Regrettably laziness was never criminalised. The current government is now castigated for trying to introduce the last of the requirements for the Welfare State to work - work. ~ Lord Beveridge should be spinning in his grave. ~ Nothing is for nothing.[/p][/quote][italic] [quote] I would encourage correspondents to refer to the Beveridge objectives regarding The Welfare State. [/quote][/italic] [italic]Why [/italic]would you encourage us to do that – to what purpose? [italic] [quote] Want (need) interpretable nearly 70 years on - mainly addressed - no bodies in the street other than those who choose. Ought not to be confused with current "want it all and want it now" mentality [/quote][/italic] Well now we have the take of a very solemn and silly man on the 1942 Beveridge Report and how far the silly man thinks its aims have been achieved in modern Britain. What relevance has the Report and the silly man’s take on it to the exigencies of Britain after the Credit Crunch – brought on by the very richest and most influential people in our societies rather than single mums on housing benefit? [italic] [quote] Lord Beveridge should be spinning in his grave. [/quote][/italic] I would think he is scratching his head if people beyond the grave can read the BFP on the internet and he has read the thoughts of 'washondo'.[/p][/quote]Acid for breakfast again? If you don't understand, just try a little harder. Besides every other correspondent, do you even hate yourself? washondo

9:32am Sun 23 Dec 12

humbug77 says...

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
humbug77 wrote:
Slacker wrote:
Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year...

Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish?

Necessities
Electricity - £20 a week
Heating Gas £30 a week
Food £20 a week?
Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged)
Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively

Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week?

**Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed.

Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week.

Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?
Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work!
.


I see it every single day and wonder why I work!


If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not give try giving up working?
Morals! Because it wasn't how I was bought up and its not the example that I want to set for my kids. Dont get me wrong the Idea of the benefit system, originally set up as a safety net is a wonderful one and I have used this safety net myself on two separate occasions, firstly when I was at collage and found myself pregnant and on my own and secondly when me and my husband split up for 18 months when our youngest was 6 months old and believe me I was very grateful for it too! Although I would have liked more children I took the very hard decision to get sterilised after my 3rd as there was no way we could afford any more than that so alas packing in my job and popping out kids for money is not an option for me any more. I should also add that I like my job, its just a shame that it doesn't pay as well as child tax credits.
[quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]humbug77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Slacker[/bold] wrote: Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year... Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish? Necessities Electricity - £20 a week Heating Gas £30 a week Food £20 a week? Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged) Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week? **Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed. Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week. Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?[/p][/quote]Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work![/p][/quote]. [italic] [quote] I see it every single day and wonder why I work! [/quote][/italic] If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not give try giving up working?[/p][/quote]Morals! Because it wasn't how I was bought up and its not the example that I want to set for my kids. Dont get me wrong the Idea of the benefit system, originally set up as a safety net is a wonderful one and I have used this safety net myself on two separate occasions, firstly when I was at collage and found myself pregnant and on my own and secondly when me and my husband split up for 18 months when our youngest was 6 months old and believe me I was very grateful for it too! Although I would have liked more children I took the very hard decision to get sterilised after my 3rd as there was no way we could afford any more than that so alas packing in my job and popping out kids for money is not an option for me any more. I should also add that I like my job, its just a shame that it doesn't pay as well as child tax credits. humbug77

9:32am Sun 23 Dec 12

humbug77 says...

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
humbug77 wrote:
Slacker wrote:
Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year...

Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish?

Necessities
Electricity - £20 a week
Heating Gas £30 a week
Food £20 a week?
Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged)
Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively

Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week?

**Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed.

Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week.

Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?
Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work!
.


I see it every single day and wonder why I work!


If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not give try giving up working?
Morals! Because it wasn't how I was bought up and its not the example that I want to set for my kids. Dont get me wrong the Idea of the benefit system, originally set up as a safety net is a wonderful one and I have used this safety net myself on two separate occasions, firstly when I was at collage and found myself pregnant and on my own and secondly when me and my husband split up for 18 months when our youngest was 6 months old and believe me I was very grateful for it too! Although I would have liked more children I took the very hard decision to get sterilised after my 3rd as there was no way we could afford any more than that so alas packing in my job and popping out kids for money is not an option for me any more. I should also add that I like my job, its just a shame that it doesn't pay as well as child tax credits.
[quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]humbug77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Slacker[/bold] wrote: Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year... Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish? Necessities Electricity - £20 a week Heating Gas £30 a week Food £20 a week? Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged) Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week? **Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed. Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week. Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?[/p][/quote]Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work![/p][/quote]. [italic] [quote] I see it every single day and wonder why I work! [/quote][/italic] If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not give try giving up working?[/p][/quote]Morals! Because it wasn't how I was bought up and its not the example that I want to set for my kids. Dont get me wrong the Idea of the benefit system, originally set up as a safety net is a wonderful one and I have used this safety net myself on two separate occasions, firstly when I was at collage and found myself pregnant and on my own and secondly when me and my husband split up for 18 months when our youngest was 6 months old and believe me I was very grateful for it too! Although I would have liked more children I took the very hard decision to get sterilised after my 3rd as there was no way we could afford any more than that so alas packing in my job and popping out kids for money is not an option for me any more. I should also add that I like my job, its just a shame that it doesn't pay as well as child tax credits. humbug77

9:45am Sun 23 Dec 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

humbug77 wrote:
ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
humbug77 wrote:
Slacker wrote:
Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year...

Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish?

Necessities
Electricity - £20 a week
Heating Gas £30 a week
Food £20 a week?
Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged)
Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively

Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week?

**Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed.

Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week.

Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?
Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work!
.


I see it every single day and wonder why I work!


If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not give try giving up working?
Morals! Because it wasn't how I was bought up and its not the example that I want to set for my kids. Dont get me wrong the Idea of the benefit system, originally set up as a safety net is a wonderful one and I have used this safety net myself on two separate occasions, firstly when I was at collage and found myself pregnant and on my own and secondly when me and my husband split up for 18 months when our youngest was 6 months old and believe me I was very grateful for it too! Although I would have liked more children I took the very hard decision to get sterilised after my 3rd as there was no way we could afford any more than that so alas packing in my job and popping out kids for money is not an option for me any more. I should also add that I like my job, its just a shame that it doesn't pay as well as child tax credits.
If it really doesn't pay as well as child tax credits then surely it is an option.
[quote][p][bold]humbug77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]humbug77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Slacker[/bold] wrote: Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year... Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish? Necessities Electricity - £20 a week Heating Gas £30 a week Food £20 a week? Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged) Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week? **Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed. Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week. Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?[/p][/quote]Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work![/p][/quote]. [italic] [quote] I see it every single day and wonder why I work! [/quote][/italic] If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not give try giving up working?[/p][/quote]Morals! Because it wasn't how I was bought up and its not the example that I want to set for my kids. Dont get me wrong the Idea of the benefit system, originally set up as a safety net is a wonderful one and I have used this safety net myself on two separate occasions, firstly when I was at collage and found myself pregnant and on my own and secondly when me and my husband split up for 18 months when our youngest was 6 months old and believe me I was very grateful for it too! Although I would have liked more children I took the very hard decision to get sterilised after my 3rd as there was no way we could afford any more than that so alas packing in my job and popping out kids for money is not an option for me any more. I should also add that I like my job, its just a shame that it doesn't pay as well as child tax credits.[/p][/quote]If it really doesn't pay as well as child tax credits then surely it is an option. ImpeturbableLawrence

10:06am Sun 23 Dec 12

humbug77 says...

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
humbug77 wrote:
ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
humbug77 wrote:
Slacker wrote:
Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year...

Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish?

Necessities
Electricity - £20 a week
Heating Gas £30 a week
Food £20 a week?
Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged)
Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively

Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week?

**Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed.

Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week.

Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?
Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work!
.


I see it every single day and wonder why I work!


If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not give try giving up working?
Morals! Because it wasn't how I was bought up and its not the example that I want to set for my kids. Dont get me wrong the Idea of the benefit system, originally set up as a safety net is a wonderful one and I have used this safety net myself on two separate occasions, firstly when I was at collage and found myself pregnant and on my own and secondly when me and my husband split up for 18 months when our youngest was 6 months old and believe me I was very grateful for it too! Although I would have liked more children I took the very hard decision to get sterilised after my 3rd as there was no way we could afford any more than that so alas packing in my job and popping out kids for money is not an option for me any more. I should also add that I like my job, its just a shame that it doesn't pay as well as child tax credits.
If it really doesn't pay as well as child tax credits then surely it is an option.
Yes but only a temporary one, all my children are over 10 so as I understand it I would have to claim job seekers and tax credits rather than income support and tax credits and I would have to look for a job! As Im not able to have any more kids it would be a bit pointless in the long run.
[quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]humbug77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]humbug77[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Slacker[/bold] wrote: Its a good job this is starting when the weather gets a bit warmer. But woes for many when the cold weather comes back October next year... Weekly Job Seekers allowance £75 ish? Necessities Electricity - £20 a week Heating Gas £30 a week Food £20 a week? Rent (maybe covered by housing benefit but not if mortgaged) Phone £5 a week (I put in necessity as communications is required to get a job effectively Well thats your £75, now where is the money for council tax which at £300 a year would be another £5 a week? **Gas and electric quoted on prepayment meter and even that is too low. Want to get yourself off prepayment to save money and go direct debit? Well you will need to find £120 to have your meter changed. Thats all stripped down to the bare minimum, not even TV licence is included as I do not see that as a life necessity but that would be £3 a week. Right and people think those on benefits have a life of luxury. Where is the luxury there?[/p][/quote]Your break down is very interesting £30 a week for gas??? oh what luxury it would be to have £30 a week on my gas meter! Job seekers may well be £75ish but you can add on to this the housing benefit, 100+ a week council tax benefit £30ish a week and chuck in a few kids and with child benefit and tax credits another £200 a week! I see the luxury every single day when my son wants to know why he cant have the same things in his lunch box as his best friend or why he cant have the latest console game as soon as its released or when the mother is out shopping or on the town several times a week! I see it every single day and wonder why I work![/p][/quote]. [italic] [quote] I see it every single day and wonder why I work! [/quote][/italic] If you really see it and really mean what you say then why not give try giving up working?[/p][/quote]Morals! Because it wasn't how I was bought up and its not the example that I want to set for my kids. Dont get me wrong the Idea of the benefit system, originally set up as a safety net is a wonderful one and I have used this safety net myself on two separate occasions, firstly when I was at collage and found myself pregnant and on my own and secondly when me and my husband split up for 18 months when our youngest was 6 months old and believe me I was very grateful for it too! Although I would have liked more children I took the very hard decision to get sterilised after my 3rd as there was no way we could afford any more than that so alas packing in my job and popping out kids for money is not an option for me any more. I should also add that I like my job, its just a shame that it doesn't pay as well as child tax credits.[/p][/quote]If it really doesn't pay as well as child tax credits then surely it is an option.[/p][/quote]Yes but only a temporary one, all my children are over 10 so as I understand it I would have to claim job seekers and tax credits rather than income support and tax credits and I would have to look for a job! As Im not able to have any more kids it would be a bit pointless in the long run. humbug77

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