'Forget about getting A&E back', says MP (From Bucks Free Press)
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'Forget about getting A&E back in Wycombe', says Dr Phillip Lee
12:52pm Friday 25th January 2013 in News By Lawrence Dunhill
'Forget about getting A&E back', says MP
WYCOMBE has been told to forget about clawing back specialist hospital services such as A&E.
Dr Phillip Lee, the MP who wants to build a new regional hospital to serve the Thames Valley, last night reiterated his message that the era of ‘district general hospitals’ is dead.
He is calling for a ‘super hospital’ to be built at Junction 8/9 of the M4, serving a population of about 600,000.
About 25 people attended a meeting at The Hub in Easton Street, High Wycombe to discuss the plans, which received a mixed reaction from members of the public.
Dr Lee’s plan would bring the full closure of Heatherwood Hospital, which is within his Bracknell constituency, as well as Wexham Park Hospital in Slough. Part closures would also be needed at sites such as Wycombe.
Loudwater resident David Abbott and Wycombe councillor Tony Green insisted that restoring key services to Wycombe Hospital would be a better option for south Bucks patients.
But Dr Lee said: “If you did that clinical outcomes would be poorer....You wouldn’t get the best hospital for your community. You’re not going to get a bells and whistles hospital in Wycombe.”
He says it has become impossible to provide specialist services safely at hospitals such as Wycombe, as they cannot be staffed properly.
Specialist surgeons, for example, would not be doing enough operations to maintain their skills, while the overnight and weekend cover would be inadequate.
And Dr Annet Gamell, representing a key group of Bucks GPs set to take over NHS budgets, said: “District general hospitals are not safe. Consolidating services on to fewer sites is very much the way forward.”
She and the Chiltern Clinical Commissioning Group expressed “significant concerns” about Dr Lee’s plan however, and the effect it would have on the existing hospital network in Bucks, after paying a private firm to review the proposals (see related links).
Dr Lee responded: “Of course it’s going to have a knock-on effect on other hospitals. You don’t have to commission a report to know that. You don’t need to state the bleeding obvious...
“We have got too many acute hospitals in this country. Some are going to stop being the hospitals they have been....It’s going to happen and I’d rather it happened in the most acceptable way.”
He stressed the urgent need for a national plan to centralise services, but finds it shocking that “nobody at the Department of Health is working on this”.
Former High Wycombe mayor Frances Alexander told the meeting: “I think this is a very sensible thought out idea...but you’ve got to make people understand the valuable role the local hospitals [such as Wycombe] will play.
“You’ve got to make sure that people don’t think they’re all going to be closed.”
Dr Lee agreed local hospitals would have a crucial role to play in the ‘hub and spoke’ system, providing ‘run-of-the-mill’ care for most patients, while more serious cases would go to the hub hospital.
He also agreed with radiographer Deborah Sanders that Beaconsfield would need some kind of community clinic to provide non-specialist care as a 'spoke' in the South Bucks district.
Wycombe MP Steve Baker said the plans were “honest and courageous”, but said the new hospital is not what Bucks patients and doctors want. He also pointed out the plan is a proposal by an individual MP, and does not represent government or NHS policy.
BFP editor Steve Cohen, who chaired the meeting, noted there were several doctors and 'health bureaucrats' at the meeting who had pushed the case for centralising hospital services.
But he added: “There are lots of country bumpkins, me included, who remain to be convinced. And until you convince us then you’ve got a big task on your hands.”
Comments(42)
DaintyGoLightly
says...
1:12pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Jade12
says...
2:10pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Gerry47
says...
2:23pm Fri 25 Jan 13
I'd like to see more A&E units opened around the country as satellite units to larger specialist hospitals.
JOHNHEALY
says...
2:32pm Fri 25 Jan 13
katodeza
says...
2:47pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Darren Hayday
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2:55pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Managers and the bods at the top of the food chain want to close down all hospitals and then have 'super' hospitals which cover much larger area's.
"We" the mere mortals that pay out of our tax and who these bods work for and who are support to represent 'our' best interests - want local services so that we don’t die on the way to a hospital many miles away from where we are being run over.
Somehow..
"We" are now the ones who are being dictated to and told that its tough luck - this is what we are going to get - live with it.
So it was the Labour Government that started this 'plan', then the current Tory/LibDem government that are not listening to us... they want 3rd runways and HS2 and God only know what – while our economy is being destroyed..
It's insulting - I am insulted and everyone that I know wants the A&E and maternity departments returned to Wycombe - and also the rest of the Country want the same for their local hospital. It's as if we live in a Dictatorship and these MP's can just make it up as they go along.
Give us back our services please.
Darren Hayday
says...
2:56pm Fri 25 Jan 13
We told him where to go as well!
J B Blackett
says...
3:10pm Fri 25 Jan 13
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Full of their own perceived (and illusionary) importance they pontificate / broadcast from inside their own little fortresses or in front of their little cliques and gatherings in very selective places.
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Pompous , blind and deaf to reason , dogmatic, obsessed with their own self-serving ideas , absolutely convinced they are always right and anybody who opposes them must be silenced or shouted down - and extremely anti-democratic.
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They used to called fascists and oligarchs - what do these despicable creatures call themselves nowadays ?
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I can think of several suitable names ( but not for on this forum)
Scarletto
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3:35pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Just maybe we might get a super hospital some time after many of us have died but in the meanwhile we travel further, wait longer and suffer more from this reduced service.
It makes you want to weep! Now more than ever, just don't get ill or have an accident.
usvelt
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3:44pm Fri 25 Jan 13
RenegadeJ007
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3:44pm Fri 25 Jan 13
-the art, fully staffed super hospital where?? at his door step ! How does he want to achieve this? By closing down the surrounding specialist services by branding them in-efficient, waste of resources and where a full staffing level is apparently not necessary when Stoke Mandeville insists patients to not seek medical help because they have no staff, resources or buildings big enough to cope with us !!! This rodent wants a top class hospital for himself on the expense of everyone around him.
I can only call him self-indulged, arrogant, selfish, senseless and others that I would save till face-to-face.
pennman
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3:52pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Welwyn Dowd
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3:54pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Can I just say.....
says...
3:57pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Recall this MP!
He is clearly not working for the interests of his constituents!
It is time politicians learned their place in our democracy!!!
geoffW
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4:19pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Steve Baker will certainly not go up against Dr Lee (and the odious Theresa May) as it will hurt his personal political aspirations. He will make a few noises, but in the end he will toady to Dr Lee and Ms May.
Dr Lee and Ms May's constituents will benefit from this ... at the expense of many, many others.
Lee is right about one thing. Once this is done it can NEVER be reversed. He obviously doesn't care about condemning large sections of the community to an eternity of second class service (whilst his constituents have a first class service.)
Either represent your constituents, Baker, or RESIGN.
Mr Totterdge Hill
says...
8:54pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Wycombe growing day by day and then RTA on "The Hill" off to Oxford or Stoke... how green is that?
Not to mention the golden hour and the patient survival rate... with a little added SNOW...
PRATT
J B Blackett
says...
9:11pm Fri 25 Jan 13
pennman wrote:There were 3 major bidders for that area about 4/5 years ago , one of whom was Tescos who offered in excess of quite a lot.
'greedy developers'? I work for a developer and can't think that Central Wycombe will be high on anyone's target list I'm afraid
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Perhaps there are more now.
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But one should bear in mind , you can't resist a dig at Wycombe , whenever you can. For reasons perhaps best known to yourself.
kungfuwarrior
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9:34pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Emma179
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11:29pm Fri 25 Jan 13
(Mother of 3 young children, 40 min drive from SM, who fears the day we actually need A&E)
buftonp13
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12:53am Sat 26 Jan 13
And where there planning this hospital is nearly 20 miles from the centre of High Wycombe. With no transport links for those in our community without the use of a car, how are they ment to get there?
We all understand the country and NHS are broke and need to make cuts. But A&E departments are imperative to a community and for one the size of High Wycombe should be there!
I can understand taking many other services away from our hospital as if you have an illness or medical problem which needs an operation or continous care then its not ideal to have to travel 20 miles but the idea of a super hospital covering a large area for these type of issues is a good idea but not for a local A&E. I just cant belive our country, county,town have come to this situation in the 21st century.
BRING BACK OUR A&E SOMEONE... PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
buftonp13
says...
12:55am Sat 26 Jan 13
kungfuwarrior wrote:WHO KNOWS THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE JOKE !!!!!!!
We need A&E here! What can we do??
J B Blackett
says...
2:13am Sat 26 Jan 13
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Oh for a few people's champions to take on these lying deceitful slithy toves
demoness the second
says...
7:01am Sat 26 Jan 13
It should be dismissed by those in the know and he should be put back in his box and told to be quiet.
Julie54
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8:59am Sat 26 Jan 13
Aquator
says...
10:12am Sat 26 Jan 13
We have trusted this system not knowing that it had become subverted quite a few years ago.
The central weakness has always been the banking system and all these problems, combined with the selling off of public assets through PFI & PPP have ensured a few pockets have become lined with gold, whilst the less fortunate are driven progressively into the pit of despond.
The so called public officials ceased really working for us a long time ago, they have no duty to protect you or your wellbeing. Everythank happenning has parallells in history and where it is headed would if you knew, send chills down your spine.
Our nation and many others are in crisis and none now deny that things are headed in entirely the wrong direction.
Poverty kills does it not and those of you with sufficient understanding of the economics of debt, will acknowledge that the so called debts, conkured into existence by our trust, are mathematically impossible to pay and thus deadly.
As for being personally responsible for the posts placed here, I wish we could hold members of the establishment personally responsible for the misery and harm being done to people. Indeed we should in truth indict many of them.
Behind this you'll find covertly placed organisations that are in accordance with Agenda21 transitioning us into a much reduced condition. www.ukcolumn.org
Joe Ordinary
says...
10:18am Sat 26 Jan 13
3:54pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Just who do these doctors think they are? What do they know about how medicine and hospitals work. I wouldn't let any of them decide how I should be treated and where.
Let's all go round to see Darren Whoopsiheyday and Tony Greenfingers, they know what they're talking about, let them sort out my varicose veins and broken hip!”
Welwyn Dowd's sarcasm sys it all, indirectly.
Has nobody noticed that all of the professionals - with real experience of how medicine and hospitals actually work in the 21st century and of what the NHS is capable of providing - are supportive of the policy of centralising specialist services at centres which can provide a 24 / 7 /365 service which is properly manned by appropriate personnel.
Of course it would be lovely to have an A&E service and a Maternity service in a location 'down the road' from where we live. But that is neither practical nor possible!
This subject has been investigated on several occasions by various independent bodies and the conclusion reached that the centralisation of services is appropriate and provides the best possible service to the people of Bucks.
Dr Lee's proposal deserves, at least, consideration - not unreasoning derision. I do not happen to think that the proposal is good for the people of Bucks - it would, in my view, be more logical to locate a super-hospital in the centre of the county (i.e. expand the facilities available at Stoke Mandeville Hospital) but there are transport issues which must be considered / evaluated.
demoness the second
says...
10:52am Sat 26 Jan 13
Julie54 wrote:Sadly Wycombe Hospital did a very similar thing to my mother in law a couple of years ago. So to say it wouldn't have happened had it been at Wycombe, is not really fair.
You only have to read the story about my mother being discharged at stoke, if we had anA&E still in Wycombe this wouldn't have happened to her, we need the A&E services , once patients have been seen if they need surgery then they can be moved to another hospital, and imagine trying to get to the super hospital in rush hour??!!! What a joke his man is, go back to Bracknell and keep your nose out of Wycombe!!!
But I agree with the rest of your post.
kungfuwarrior
says...
7:00pm Sat 26 Jan 13
This isn't about the people of the Wycombe district being greedy- common sense dictates that we need front line emergency services HERE.
Voyeur
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8:37pm Sat 26 Jan 13
A real lack of foresight in our Tory led district council has led to this situation.
NealE64
says...
9:40pm Sat 26 Jan 13
http://38degrees.use
rvoice.com/forums/78
585-campaign-suggest
ions/suggestions/354
4175-bracknell-conse
rvative-association-
must-recall-and
NealE64
says...
9:58pm Sat 26 Jan 13
rvoice.com/forums/78
585-campaign-suggest
ions/suggestions/354
4175-bracknell-conse
rvative-association-
must-recall-and
J B Blackett
says...
1:36pm Sun 27 Jan 13
Joe Ordinary wrote:It also does not deserve unreasoning support.
Welwyn Dowd says...
3:54pm Fri 25 Jan 13
Just who do these doctors think they are? What do they know about how medicine and hospitals work. I wouldn't let any of them decide how I should be treated and where.
Let's all go round to see Darren Whoopsiheyday and Tony Greenfingers, they know what they're talking about, let them sort out my varicose veins and broken hip!”
Welwyn Dowd's sarcasm sys it all, indirectly.
Has nobody noticed that all of the professionals - with real experience of how medicine and hospitals actually work in the 21st century and of what the NHS is capable of providing - are supportive of the policy of centralising specialist services at centres which can provide a 24 / 7 /365 service which is properly manned by appropriate personnel.
Of course it would be lovely to have an A&E service and a Maternity service in a location 'down the road' from where we live. But that is neither practical nor possible!
This subject has been investigated on several occasions by various independent bodies and the conclusion reached that the centralisation of services is appropriate and provides the best possible service to the people of Bucks.
Dr Lee's proposal deserves, at least, consideration - not unreasoning derision. I do not happen to think that the proposal is good for the people of Bucks - it would, in my view, be more logical to locate a super-hospital in the centre of the county (i.e. expand the facilities available at Stoke Mandeville Hospital) but there are transport issues which must be considered / evaluated.
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How does locating the new 'super' hospital at the 8/9 M4 junction near Bracknell (Lee's constituency) place in the middle of the county.
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There are no plans to further extend facilities at Stoke Mandeville - quite the reverse. Where's the 'reasoning ' there.
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The Wycombe MP should tell the Bracknell MP to stop inferring with his patch and stop trying to hurry the demise and closure of Wycombe Hospital.
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What an arrogant , self-opinionated and insensitive person for a part-time GP and part-time politician. He should go far - the further the better. How about Ulan Bator ?
lostinmarlow
says...
12:35am Mon 28 Jan 13
"Forget about getting our vote next election" says lostinmarlow.
Darren Hayday
says...
9:36am Mon 28 Jan 13
Welwyn Dowd wrote:Of course I am not a Doctor - but in my mind Wycombe needs it's own A&E department.
Just who do these doctors think they are? What do they know about how medicine and hospitals work. I wouldn't let any of them decide how I should be treated and where. Let's all go round to see Darren Whoopsiheyday and Tony Greenfingers, they know what they're talking about, let them sort out my varicose veins and broken hip!
Kania 2000
says...
9:47am Mon 28 Jan 13
katodeza wrote:Is it the developers that are to blame?
It's all about selling land for greedy developers in the end.
Who owns the land and who gets the most money in the end?
kungfuwarrior
says...
3:45pm Mon 28 Jan 13
Voyeur wrote:The thing is I know younger families who have moved here because Wycombe was 'up and coming' with the new shopping centre etc. Now they face the stress of getting to Stoke.
Tory led Wycombe District Council really is to blame. By refusing to help develop some substantial housing planning in the Wycombe area, the forecast population is set to basically stagnate and get older. Hence maternity services went to Aylesbury where there is a large amount of new housing being built and attracting younger families, etc.
A real lack of foresight in our Tory led district council has led to this situation.
There are plenty of people needing full maternity services here, and an 'older' population deserves A&E services close by.
We need to fight to bring these services back!
Dr James
says...
10:06am Tue 29 Jan 13
J B Blackett
says...
1:42pm Tue 29 Jan 13
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When I do , I may not be allowed to tell you on this site as some people might be offended.
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In the meantime , we find this part-time MP and part-time GP very offensive . But he doesn't care (allegedly) - like all insensitive , unthinking and arrogant prats
Can I just say.....
says...
4:33pm Tue 29 Jan 13
pennman wrote:It was high enough on a developer's list to construct a 'shopping centre' development, and as a result....
'greedy developers'? I work for a developer and can't think that Central Wycombe will be high on anyone's target list I'm afraid
effectively destroy an age-old high street.
J B Blackett
says...
4:58pm Tue 29 Jan 13
Can I just say..... wrote:Well p-man would say that , if he/she worked for a 'developer'.
pennman wrote:It was high enough on a developer's list to construct a 'shopping centre' development, and as a result....
'greedy developers'? I work for a developer and can't think that Central Wycombe will be high on anyone's target list I'm afraid
effectively destroy an age-old high street.
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He/she would say similar if he had worked for Al Capone , Pol Pot or Saddam Hussein as regards crime , murder or wholesale genocide.
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If he /she works for a deceitful or crooked developer it's bound to be twisted propaganda , blatant lies or utter b0ll0cks. That's what they do.
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We have not come across a open , honest decent fair-minded one yet - not in this area anyway.
lady Ratz
says...
9:50pm Thu 31 Jan 13
pennman says...
1:08pm Fri 25 Jan 13