Updated: High Speed 2 phase two revealed

9:42am Monday 28th January 2013 in News

High Speed 2 phase two revealed High Speed 2 phase two revealed

CAMPAIGNERS claim the HS2 project will take more jobs away from the north and into London, after details of the route beyond Birmingham were revealed today.

The company behind the controversial scheme say it is vital to generating economic growth in the north of the country and to improve transport connections between major cities.

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But those opposed to the planned line say by the time it eventually gets built the need for growth will have disappeared - and residents will actually receive a poorer rail service.

The plans unveiled by the Department of Transport and HS2 Ltd this morning show two Y shaped spur lines will be built north of Birmingham.

One to the east will go on to Leeds via stops at Toton Sidings, to the south of Nottingham, and Meadowhall, near Sheffield. The other goes north west to Crewe, where it will again split to create new lines onward to Manchester and Liverpool.

The Government says improved infrastructure will lead to an eventual growth in the northern economy - but opponents to the scheme say the north needs to be regenerated now, not when the line is completed in 2033.

Penny Gaines, chairman of the Stop HS2 campaign group, said: "The Government talks about jobs, and regenerating the north, but in reality, high speed rail projects elsewhere have sucked jobs to the capital cities, away from the regions. HS2 focuses on long distance journeys, when the main passenger growth is in regional and local areas.

"Again and again with HS2 we’ve heard talk of connectivity, but what it really means is connectivity with London. HS2 is a London-centric proposal that seems focused on extending the London commuter belt beyond Birmingham, when we need to create an engine for growth in the north, providing access to jobs for people who want to live and work in the north."

Independent Chiltern District Councillor Seb Berry, who was elected onto the authority under an anti-HS2 ticket, said: "Today David Cameron, George Osborne and Nick Clegg all tried to spin the HS2 Y announcement as vital for growth. But no one seriously believes that HS2 has anything to do with growing our way out of austerity. 

"The north needs growth now. HS2 will make zero difference to our short-term economic prospects and do nothing to help the UK avoid an almost certain triple-dip recession."

He added: "Enough is enough. The May County Council elections provide an early opportunity for local voters right across Bucks and in other affected Shires to deliver their verdict."

Buckinghamshire County Council Leader Martin Tett, who is also Chairman of the 51m Alliance of 18 local authorities opposed to HS2, said: "A major concern that we have is that many towns and cities will be shocked to discover that they will actually receive a poorer train service if HS2 is built. Stations such as Toton Sidings and Meadowhall are far from city centres. West Coast Main Line and Midland Main Line services to many existing stations are certain to be reduced.

"At the same time HS2 will blight the lives, property and businesses of tens of thousands of people. Houses will be unsaleable and jobs lost across the Midlands and elsewhere. Only those directly on the route will receive compensation. Those nearby will have to wait until 2034 at the earliest to see if they get anything."

A statement on HS2 Ltd's website read: "HS2 is not just about connections to London. By linking Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester, Leeds, it will provide fast services between cities which are not currently well connected.

"The stations in Leeds, Sheffield, the East Midlands and Birmingham would each be separated by a journey of less than 20 minutes, making daily commuting easy and providing a high speed line that would integrate their economies as never before."

Comments (19)

9:55am Mon 28 Jan 13

regis says...

H2s is a complete waste of time and money, its going to be awful looking at the chilterns when im old and grey and seeing a monsterous train line runnin through it. Also did anyone ever stop to think about how this will more than likely benefit terrorists, criminals etc? linking the wastes of oxygen from the likes of birmingham, london, wycombe etc into 1 easy train journey? Nah didnt think so
H2s is a complete waste of time and money, its going to be awful looking at the chilterns when im old and grey and seeing a monsterous train line runnin through it. Also did anyone ever stop to think about how this will more than likely benefit terrorists, criminals etc? linking the wastes of oxygen from the likes of birmingham, london, wycombe etc into 1 easy train journey? Nah didnt think so regis

11:17am Mon 28 Jan 13

sparky49 says...

It was always going to happen. It will benefit the country as it will give travel options to move from the North, Midlands and London, couple this with Crossrail and it is exciting resulting in a massive improvement in our rail system. It's just a shame that Beeching did what he did, as our roads would not be as congested with freight.
P.S it also upsets the Chiltern nimbys, that's got to be a plus straight away.
It was always going to happen. It will benefit the country as it will give travel options to move from the North, Midlands and London, couple this with Crossrail and it is exciting resulting in a massive improvement in our rail system. It's just a shame that Beeching did what he did, as our roads would not be as congested with freight. P.S it also upsets the Chiltern nimbys, that's got to be a plus straight away. sparky49

11:45am Mon 28 Jan 13

Kania 2000 says...

As train fares are more than flights will any one be able to afford to travel by train anyway?
Just think of all the people that will have to drive to get on the train!
Does any one really believe that it will only cost £33bn?
As train fares are more than flights will any one be able to afford to travel by train anyway? Just think of all the people that will have to drive to get on the train! Does any one really believe that it will only cost £33bn? Kania 2000

12:29pm Mon 28 Jan 13

jayeatman says...

Kania 2000 wrote:
As train fares are more than flights will any one be able to afford to travel by train anyway?
Just think of all the people that will have to drive to get on the train!
Does any one really believe that it will only cost £33bn?
'Only £33bn'. I cannot believe how much it's going to cost!
As for it's own political reasons (as opposed to the economic well being of the country), the government cancelled Heathrow's 3rd runway and kicked the issue of any more runways in the South East into the long grass, you won't have the choice of flying to Manchester or Glasgow as there won't be any space for your plane to take off and land!
PS What was regis on about exactly?? HS2: A commuter network for terrorists? Hmmm
[quote][p][bold]Kania 2000[/bold] wrote: As train fares are more than flights will any one be able to afford to travel by train anyway? Just think of all the people that will have to drive to get on the train! Does any one really believe that it will only cost £33bn?[/p][/quote]'Only £33bn'. I cannot believe how much it's going to cost! As for it's own political reasons (as opposed to the economic well being of the country), the government cancelled Heathrow's 3rd runway and kicked the issue of any more runways in the South East into the long grass, you won't have the choice of flying to Manchester or Glasgow as there won't be any space for your plane to take off and land! PS What was regis on about exactly?? HS2: A commuter network for terrorists? Hmmm jayeatman

12:46pm Mon 28 Jan 13

Malc London says...

At least they have train stations on the northern bit.

I would still prefer the money spent on a localised rail network to provide efficient, cheap transport for commuters.

Trains are more expensive than cars, never mind planes. Only the very rich will be able to afford it.
At least they have train stations on the northern bit. I would still prefer the money spent on a localised rail network to provide efficient, cheap transport for commuters. Trains are more expensive than cars, never mind planes. Only the very rich will be able to afford it. Malc London

2:22pm Mon 28 Jan 13

J B Blackett says...

There will be inevitable unintended consequences (as well as those that the big boys have deceitfully or otherwise brushed under the carpet).
.
The end result will not probably be to give a more fairly distributed network and associated infrastructures.
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That has been tried in other European countries - inc Spain and Italy. Just the opposite of what the politicians said would happen , has happened.
.
eg the Supertrain line /service between Madrid and Seville was supposed to spread the business and commerce enterprise more evenly.
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In fact even more business has now migrate to Madrid at the expense / loss to other areas and making Spain even more Madrid-centric.
.
This country is already too London-oriented and HS2 could make it more so.
.
Still it seems to suit the overbearingly loud voices in big business with vested interests and their political friends. .
.
And it also is said to suit a bunch of millionaire (mostly inherited wealth or worse) public school boys who lack any real job / life experiences , haven't an inking about ordinary folks living costs and are in fact totally inept - not even adequate at PR.
.
That means they are not even good at telling blatant lies. At least Blair was very good at that and conned most people he lied to. Perhaps they don't care whether we know if they are lying or not. Nick Clegg doesn't.
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Still one gets the self-serving arrogant idiots and liars one votes for , doesn't one ? (allegedly).
There will be inevitable unintended consequences (as well as those that the big boys have deceitfully or otherwise brushed under the carpet). . The end result will not probably be to give a more fairly distributed network and associated infrastructures. . That has been tried in other European countries - inc Spain and Italy. Just the opposite of what the politicians said would happen , has happened. . eg the Supertrain line /service between Madrid and Seville was supposed to spread the business and commerce enterprise more evenly. . In fact even more business has now migrate to Madrid at the expense / loss to other areas and making Spain even more Madrid-centric. . This country is already too London-oriented and HS2 could make it more so. . Still it seems to suit the overbearingly loud voices in big business with vested interests and their political friends. . . And it also is said to suit a bunch of millionaire (mostly inherited wealth or worse) public school boys who lack any real job / life experiences , haven't an inking about ordinary folks living costs and are in fact totally inept - not even adequate at PR. . That means they are not even good at telling blatant lies. At least Blair was very good at that and conned most people he lied to. Perhaps they don't care whether we know if they are lying or not. Nick Clegg doesn't. . Still one gets the self-serving arrogant idiots and liars one votes for , doesn't one ? (allegedly). J B Blackett

2:29pm Mon 28 Jan 13

Scarletto says...

Awful waste of precious money in a recession plus huge disturbance en-route building. Also, trains already run through our area to Birmingham.
Also, no stations planned for our area so no benefit anyway for us all..
Awful waste of precious money in a recession plus huge disturbance en-route building. Also, trains already run through our area to Birmingham. Also, no stations planned for our area so no benefit anyway for us all.. Scarletto

8:18pm Mon 28 Jan 13

thethe says...

Oh good, I'll be able to get to Toton much quicker in the future. I've always wanted to go to Toton but it's so slow by car or train.
Oh good, I'll be able to get to Toton much quicker in the future. I've always wanted to go to Toton but it's so slow by car or train. thethe

9:31pm Mon 28 Jan 13

JOHNHEALY says...

HS2 and HS3 are very beneficial for the country in many respects from the point of view of the jobs they will create for construction workers and operational staff, the european trade opportunities they will open up, the travel possibilities they will bring and the reduction in pollution from road and air traffic. However, just a few drawbacks exist as things are. The chosen routes are without doubt the most expensive possible and will cause the most disruption and each route needs to contain one or two more stations to tie in with existing rail infrastructure.
HS2 and HS3 are very beneficial for the country in many respects from the point of view of the jobs they will create for construction workers and operational staff, the european trade opportunities they will open up, the travel possibilities they will bring and the reduction in pollution from road and air traffic. However, just a few drawbacks exist as things are. The chosen routes are without doubt the most expensive possible and will cause the most disruption and each route needs to contain one or two more stations to tie in with existing rail infrastructure. JOHNHEALY

10:52pm Mon 28 Jan 13

gpn01 says...

"HS2 and HS3 are very beneficial for the country in many respects from the point of view of the jobs they will create for construction workers and operational staff" ???

£33 BILLION pounds for 33 THOUSAND jobs ? Divide the cost by the number of jobs and it works out at ONE MILLION POUNDS PER JOB CREATED.

You could just give 330,000 companies £100,000 each if they took on one additional employee. I suspect that would open up far more business opportunities.
"HS2 and HS3 are very beneficial for the country in many respects from the point of view of the jobs they will create for construction workers and operational staff" ??? £33 BILLION pounds for 33 THOUSAND jobs ? Divide the cost by the number of jobs and it works out at ONE MILLION POUNDS PER JOB CREATED. You could just give 330,000 companies £100,000 each if they took on one additional employee. I suspect that would open up far more business opportunities. gpn01

12:38am Tue 29 Jan 13

Voyeur says...

They are linking Manchester Airport but they are not linking Heathrow Airport via Ruislip. Why aren't they consistent? It is flawed in its current form.
They are linking Manchester Airport but they are not linking Heathrow Airport via Ruislip. Why aren't they consistent? It is flawed in its current form. Voyeur

3:08am Tue 29 Jan 13

washondo says...

If we're all living longer, that means we've got more time to get there.
~
Shouldn't we be going slower?
If we're all living longer, that means we've got more time to get there. ~ Shouldn't we be going slower? washondo

9:19am Tue 29 Jan 13

JOHNHEALY says...

gpn01 wrote:
"HS2 and HS3 are very beneficial for the country in many respects from the point of view of the jobs they will create for construction workers and operational staff" ???

£33 BILLION pounds for 33 THOUSAND jobs ? Divide the cost by the number of jobs and it works out at ONE MILLION POUNDS PER JOB CREATED.

You could just give 330,000 companies £100,000 each if they took on one additional employee. I suspect that would open up far more business opportunities.
gpn01 let us take your point about the cost of jobs first . All jobs cost money and a £1,000,000 per job is reasonable. Giving companies £100000 for creating jobs would on a £20000 a year salary only keep an employee for five years. As well as all the benefits I mentioned earlier there is the wider picture to look at with HS2/HS3 such as all the spin off benefits they will bring. However, as I have already stated there are certain provisos to welcoming this project with open arms and I should know what I am talking about as a Railway Historian
[quote][p][bold]gpn01[/bold] wrote: "HS2 and HS3 are very beneficial for the country in many respects from the point of view of the jobs they will create for construction workers and operational staff" ??? £33 BILLION pounds for 33 THOUSAND jobs ? Divide the cost by the number of jobs and it works out at ONE MILLION POUNDS PER JOB CREATED. You could just give 330,000 companies £100,000 each if they took on one additional employee. I suspect that would open up far more business opportunities.[/p][/quote]gpn01 let us take your point about the cost of jobs first . All jobs cost money and a £1,000,000 per job is reasonable. Giving companies £100000 for creating jobs would on a £20000 a year salary only keep an employee for five years. As well as all the benefits I mentioned earlier there is the wider picture to look at with HS2/HS3 such as all the spin off benefits they will bring. However, as I have already stated there are certain provisos to welcoming this project with open arms and I should know what I am talking about as a Railway Historian JOHNHEALY

10:21am Tue 29 Jan 13

Dr James says...

HS2 would be great for the country, you need to look at the CBR (cost benefit ratio) London to Birmingham would be in the rgion of 1:2 or 1:3 every pound spent 3 pounds back in the economy, this by way of jobs, connnectivity for businesses etc.

As the build moves past Birmingham the CBR indeed jumps to 1:6 creating a viable railway so actually your £33billion spend over say a 10 -12 year period is really nothing, in fact it is quite cheap and affordable and would cost something like the tax payer as little £10 pounds a year, of course you will not see your taxes rise as the funding will come out of the national coffers and private financing, the jobs created and the taxes paid on the wages through the jobs created funds the build, along with the sales of goods at the shops that will open at the major stations that will be refurbished into shopping centres etc etc.....so I say build.
HS2 would be great for the country, you need to look at the CBR (cost benefit ratio) London to Birmingham would be in the rgion of 1:2 or 1:3 every pound spent 3 pounds back in the economy, this by way of jobs, connnectivity for businesses etc. As the build moves past Birmingham the CBR indeed jumps to 1:6 creating a viable railway so actually your £33billion spend over say a 10 -12 year period is really nothing, in fact it is quite cheap and affordable and would cost something like the tax payer as little £10 pounds a year, of course you will not see your taxes rise as the funding will come out of the national coffers and private financing, the jobs created and the taxes paid on the wages through the jobs created funds the build, along with the sales of goods at the shops that will open at the major stations that will be refurbished into shopping centres etc etc.....so I say build. Dr James

1:42pm Tue 29 Jan 13

Malc London says...

I think you'll find shopping centres will be a thing of the past by the time the rail is completed.

I think it would be best if they start up north and see what economic benefits it brings in. At least the rail network up there is worth having.

In the south there are no stations planned between London and Birmingham, so the benefit to people in the south is nil.

I'd rather the money be spent on local services to take traffic off the road. In addition, a connection between Reading and Cambridge and on to Norfolk would make more sense.
I think you'll find shopping centres will be a thing of the past by the time the rail is completed. I think it would be best if they start up north and see what economic benefits it brings in. At least the rail network up there is worth having. In the south there are no stations planned between London and Birmingham, so the benefit to people in the south is nil. I'd rather the money be spent on local services to take traffic off the road. In addition, a connection between Reading and Cambridge and on to Norfolk would make more sense. Malc London

1:45pm Tue 29 Jan 13

gpn01 says...

JOHNHEALY wrote:
gpn01 wrote: "HS2 and HS3 are very beneficial for the country in many respects from the point of view of the jobs they will create for construction workers and operational staff" ??? £33 BILLION pounds for 33 THOUSAND jobs ? Divide the cost by the number of jobs and it works out at ONE MILLION POUNDS PER JOB CREATED. You could just give 330,000 companies £100,000 each if they took on one additional employee. I suspect that would open up far more business opportunities.
gpn01 let us take your point about the cost of jobs first . All jobs cost money and a £1,000,000 per job is reasonable. Giving companies £100000 for creating jobs would on a £20000 a year salary only keep an employee for five years. As well as all the benefits I mentioned earlier there is the wider picture to look at with HS2/HS3 such as all the spin off benefits they will bring. However, as I have already stated there are certain provisos to welcoming this project with open arms and I should know what I am talking about as a Railway Historian
You make a very apt point that you are a railway HISTORIAN - and railways are a centuries old form of communication. There are massively faster (and clearly cheaper) ways of communication available these days that would help business prosper far more than simply transporting people for A to B. If you think that spending £1M to take ONE person off the jobless queue is good value then I would suggest that you seriously give it more thought.
[quote][p][bold]JOHNHEALY[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]gpn01[/bold] wrote: "HS2 and HS3 are very beneficial for the country in many respects from the point of view of the jobs they will create for construction workers and operational staff" ??? £33 BILLION pounds for 33 THOUSAND jobs ? Divide the cost by the number of jobs and it works out at ONE MILLION POUNDS PER JOB CREATED. You could just give 330,000 companies £100,000 each if they took on one additional employee. I suspect that would open up far more business opportunities.[/p][/quote]gpn01 let us take your point about the cost of jobs first . All jobs cost money and a £1,000,000 per job is reasonable. Giving companies £100000 for creating jobs would on a £20000 a year salary only keep an employee for five years. As well as all the benefits I mentioned earlier there is the wider picture to look at with HS2/HS3 such as all the spin off benefits they will bring. However, as I have already stated there are certain provisos to welcoming this project with open arms and I should know what I am talking about as a Railway Historian[/p][/quote]You make a very apt point that you are a railway HISTORIAN - and railways are a centuries old form of communication. There are massively faster (and clearly cheaper) ways of communication available these days that would help business prosper far more than simply transporting people for A to B. If you think that spending £1M to take ONE person off the jobless queue is good value then I would suggest that you seriously give it more thought. gpn01

1:59pm Tue 29 Jan 13

jayeatman says...

Malc London wrote:
I think you'll find shopping centres will be a thing of the past by the time the rail is completed.

I think it would be best if they start up north and see what economic benefits it brings in. At least the rail network up there is worth having.

In the south there are no stations planned between London and Birmingham, so the benefit to people in the south is nil.

I'd rather the money be spent on local services to take traffic off the road. In addition, a connection between Reading and Cambridge and on to Norfolk would make more sense.
Ironic then that one of the new stations, Sheffield, will be built in a shopping center. Reading-Cambridge, good idea Malc, it's called East-West Rail. It might happen one day, but I agree that schemes such as this, Crossrail2 and similar ones in other major cities would do far more for the country's economy. That plus a new runway or two would do it.
[quote][p][bold]Malc London[/bold] wrote: I think you'll find shopping centres will be a thing of the past by the time the rail is completed. I think it would be best if they start up north and see what economic benefits it brings in. At least the rail network up there is worth having. In the south there are no stations planned between London and Birmingham, so the benefit to people in the south is nil. I'd rather the money be spent on local services to take traffic off the road. In addition, a connection between Reading and Cambridge and on to Norfolk would make more sense.[/p][/quote]Ironic then that one of the new stations, Sheffield, will be built in a shopping center. Reading-Cambridge, good idea Malc, it's called East-West Rail. It might happen one day, but I agree that schemes such as this, Crossrail2 and similar ones in other major cities would do far more for the country's economy. That plus a new runway or two would do it. jayeatman

6:29pm Wed 30 Jan 13

Aquator says...

"false, abusive or malicious" !!

We don't have enough money to keep A&E department of our hospitals open or to provide meaningful work to provide real goods for the benifit of the people.

But from that same conjuring box, this incredibly insulting piece of engineering seems to be affordable. Hmmm...

Our elected officials and senior officers of government seem to be incapable of giving truthful and honest answers, instead constantly projecting FALSE information.

THe state seems to be ABUSING the trust placed in it to serve the electorate
and the activities within the imposition of austery is for many people positively MALICIOUS.

Hope that doesn't offend any ones sensibilities!
"false, abusive or malicious" !! We don't have enough money to keep A&E department of our hospitals open or to provide meaningful work to provide real goods for the benifit of the people. But from that same conjuring box, this incredibly insulting piece of engineering seems to be affordable. Hmmm... Our elected officials and senior officers of government seem to be incapable of giving truthful and honest answers, instead constantly projecting FALSE information. THe state seems to be ABUSING the trust placed in it to serve the electorate and the activities within the imposition of austery is for many people positively MALICIOUS. Hope that doesn't offend any ones sensibilities! Aquator

9:58pm Thu 31 Jan 13

peesh64 says...

Will be funny when the river Misbourne ends up in the tunnel they drill under Amersham...Glug Glug Glug.
Will be funny when the river Misbourne ends up in the tunnel they drill under Amersham...Glug Glug Glug. peesh64

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