Protest petition launched over HS2 financing (From Bucks Free Press)
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Protest petition launched over HS2 financing
8:30am Sunday 3rd March 2013 in News By Andy Carswell
Protest petition launched over HS2 financing
AN ONLINE petition has been set up in protest at proposals to give more money and power to the company in charge of planning the route of the HS2 railway line.
Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin announced this week the controversial project could be subject to a Paving Bill, which would make scheme eligible for money normally not available until a full bill has been granted Royal Assent by Parliament.
The Bill can also be used to provide additional powers for HS2 Ltd, the company tasked with planning the route of the line, to access land and properties needed for surveying.
Mr McLoughlin admitted in the House of Commons this week he had not yet been able to secure enough Parliamentary time to present the proposed Paving Bill, leading to criticism from campaigners.
An e-petition on the Government's website has been set up in protest and has so far been signed by more than 1,000 people.
Penny Gaines, chairman of the Stop HS2 campaign group, said: "It's clear that this [the Paving Bill] is for politically expedient reasons, as Patrick McLoughlin admitted in the House of Commons that there is no Parliamentary time allocated to it.
"There are huge concerns that the bill is to circumvent the democratic process by pushing through a hastily thrown together act of Parliament. As HS2 will be the largest peacetime infrastructure, it is ridiculous that this £33 billion project is being cobbled together in this way."
Stop HS2's campaign manager Joe Rukin added: "Suggesting a Paving Bill is simply an admission that spending on HS2 is already out of control, years before brick is due to be laid."
Chesham and Amersham MP Cheryl Gillan asked the Transport Secretary in the House of Commons this week if he could give assurances the Bill would not remove landowners' rights to refuse HS2 Ltd access to their land.
He replied: "In order to put [improvements] in place, we will need access to some of the land.”
Mr McLoughlin added: "Introducing a Paving Bill will allow Parliament to make a clear commitment to High Speed rail. Crucially, it will also give us the spending powers much sooner that will enable us to get moving on the detailed design work for the scheme.
"This is an opportunity for all three main political parties to reaffirm their support for High Speed rail and maintain the ambitious programme we have set for HS2."
Comments(18)
Voyeur
says...
11:02am Sun 3 Mar 13
padav
says...
12:27pm Sun 3 Mar 13
Penny lives in Quainton - download the map shown at the following URL and you can see that the village centre is approx 1000m from the new line
http://assets.dft.go
v.uk/publications/hs
2-maps-20120110/hs2a
rp00drrw05012issue4.
Passage of a Paving Bill brings the reality of that prospect a little bit closer - a glance at the map makes clear the REAL reason driving Penny's opposition to HS2?
sparky49
says...
12:45pm Sun 3 Mar 13
Voyeur wrote:Point one, why would you need a spur from Heathrow to Ruislip?
It is currently a flawed concept. They are planning a spur line to Manchester Airport but not one from Heathrow, to say, Ruislip. I don't think any ordinary person will be able to afford the train fares either. I note a Japanese Bullet train derailed over the past day or so with 130 people on board. That does not sound like a viable passenger number to me.
Point two, Train fares. Privatisation, say no more.
Point Three, The bullet has one of the safest records in the world.
rosetta_daisy
says...
3:57pm Sun 3 Mar 13
gpn01
says...
5:29pm Sun 3 Mar 13
rosetta_daisy wrote:Thanks to the power of Google: http://epetitions.di
As I would be interested in signing this on-line petition could someone please give details of it and then I can circulate it widely. Many thanks
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/46498 .
rosetta_daisy
says...
7:13pm Sun 3 Mar 13
gpn01 wrote:Thank you for the Google link. However, I did look there myself, and especially for a link to HS2 but couldn't find this specific petition about giving extra funding to HS2 Ltd. Perhaps you can help me.
rosetta_daisy wrote:Thanks to the power of Google: http://epetitions.di
As I would be interested in signing this on-line petition could someone please give details of it and then I can circulate it widely. Many thanks
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/46498 .
gpn01
says...
7:23pm Sun 3 Mar 13
rosetta_daisy wrote:I don't think the petition explicitly mentions additional funding per se. My understanding (as per the article) is that the paving bill is a mechanism that can be used to secure additional funding. There's so many petitions around (http://epetitions.d
gpn01 wrote:Thank you for the Google link. However, I did look there myself, and especially for a link to HS2 but couldn't find this specific petition about giving extra funding to HS2 Ltd. Perhaps you can help me.
rosetta_daisy wrote:Thanks to the power of Google: http://epetitions.di
As I would be interested in signing this on-line petition could someone please give details of it and then I can circulate it widely. Many thanks
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/46498 .
irect.gov.uk/search?
q=hs2 shows 1,892!) that it's obvious that soem have been created without much thought put into the narrative. Shame too that every extra petition potentially dilutes the power of just having a few, focussed, petitions.
kingsnewclothes
says...
8:32pm Sun 3 Mar 13
padav wrote:So what ? Is it not the case that many of the loudest voices in favour of this scheme belong to people who are associated with companies that expect or hope to benefit financially from it ? The likes of Siemens , Deutsche Bahn , Atkins , Arup , Barhale.
Penny Gaines, chairman of the Stop HS2 campaign group, said: "It's clear that this is for politically expedient reasons, as Patrick McLoughlin admitted in the House of Commons that there is no Parliamentary time allocated to it.
Penny lives in Quainton - download the map shown at the following URL and you can see that the village centre is approx 1000m from the new line
http://assets.dft.go
v.uk/publications/hs
2-maps-20120110/hs2a
rp00drrw05012issue4.
Passage of a Paving Bill brings the reality of that prospect a little bit closer - a glance at the map makes clear the REAL reason driving Penny's opposition to HS2?
I don't know Penny , but if she lives within 1 km of the line then there are also another 171,999 households who do. A good proportion of those will be effected by disruption during construction, noise thereafter or property blight or all three. As it stands the number of households who rank for compensation could be as low as 2,000. The reason ... the government can't afford to include more.
If the government can't afford fair and full compensation it can't afford HS2.
The Ducks
says...
9:12pm Sun 3 Mar 13
padav
says...
9:25pm Sun 3 Mar 13
Not really - the companies you mention don't need to shout very loudly - their brands and products do that for them?
The loudest voices of support for HS2 tend to originate from local govt and business orientated bodies in areas likely to benefit from the implementation of HS2, the train services it will facilitate and the economic growth it will stimulate
For example City of Manchester Council, Leeds City Council, Birmingham Airport, MAG (owners of Manchester International Airport, which just happens to be the 10 Metropolitan Boroughs making up Greater Manchester) plus Chambers of Commerce and Local Enterprise Partnerships in said localities.
In other words bodies and institutions populated by individuals who can clearly see the benefits flowing to their areas from HS2 and by default the people who reside within those areas.
My point about proximity to the rail line as a motivation is pertinent because we see a lot of hot air about how the anti-HS2 campaign is concerned with protecting the UK taxpayer from a wanton waste of money when in reality it's all about protecting individual neighbourhoods from the perceived future disruption caused by HS2 - for 99% of those involved in anti-HS2 campaign groups, they wouldn't give a proverbial monkeys if the new line was somewhere else, nowhere near them!
padav
says...
9:29pm Sun 3 Mar 13
Sorry - don't believe you - Penny Gaines has been quoted several times within press reports relating to HS2 as living in Quainton
Voyeur
says...
9:32pm Sun 3 Mar 13
I don't know - perhaps the same reason as a spur line from Manchester Airport to HS2 plus?
sparky49
says...
9:08am Mon 4 Mar 13
Voyeur wrote:There is no airport at Ruislip, der!
Point one, why would you need a spur from Heathrow to Ruislip?
I don't know - perhaps the same reason as a spur line from Manchester Airport to HS2 plus?
It will double up as a high speed airport transfer link, taking extra traffic of the roads.
miccles
says...
9:11am Mon 4 Mar 13
The Ducks wrote:Penny Gaines lives in Quainton, so i think you are out of date.
Padav - out of date as always - Penny Gaines lives in Dorset. So how does that affect your argument?
Even if she did live in Dorset, she shouldn't be poking her nose into something that is not going to concern her.
kingsnewclothes
says...
8:32pm Mon 4 Mar 13
miccles wrote:Nice one miccles.
The Ducks wrote:Penny Gaines lives in Quainton, so i think you are out of date.
Padav - out of date as always - Penny Gaines lives in Dorset. So how does that affect your argument?
Even if she did live in Dorset, she shouldn't be poking her nose into something that is not going to concern her.
If she lives near the line no doubt you would call her a NIMBY.
If she doesn't live near the line she shouldn't poke her nose into something that doesn't concern her.
In your strange world just who is allowed to object to anything ?
kingsnewclothes
says...
9:06pm Mon 4 Mar 13
You are wrong to down play the efforts of those companies who think they will or might make a great deal of money out of HS2. Political lobbying, TV appearances, involvement with groups like High Speed Leaders, Campaign for High Speed Rail and Go HS2. Various letters to the newspapers. I don't really blame them, £ 39 billion doesn't come along every day.
You are correct though that the councils of Manchester and Leeds are in favour. They do think their areas will benefit, possibly at the expense of other areas in the North. In other words they have a vested interest which isn't the same as the national interest.
Glad you mentioned Birmingham Airport. I had been surprised they were so in favour ( I simply don't buy the idea of masses of people from the South East coming to "London Birmingham Airport" ) because if people switch from plane to train in any numbers ( as the DfT claim would be the case ) then Birmingham Airport could lose out. Then I found out that a major shareholder , with a big enough stake for influence , was none other than Ontario Teachers Pension Fund who were one of the partners who took the long term lease on HS1. Another good example of a vested interest perhaps ? If in doubt follow the money.
Railrunner
says...
10:53pm Sat 9 Mar 13
HS2 will connect Heathrow, East Midlands (via Toton Hub) Birmingham and Manchester Airports, plus a fast link to Leeds/Bradford is being examined.
sparky49 says...
10:19am Sun 3 Mar 13