Councillors want anonymity rule for public meetings

9:50am Friday 8th March 2013 in News By Simon Farr

Hazlemere Parish Council meets at Cedar Barn Hazlemere Parish Council meets at Cedar Barn

A PARISH council wants to hold all its meetings under a legally unenforceable rule which would provide anonymity for speakers.

Hazlemere Parish Council’s full council meeting on Tuesday – which did not go ahead as not enough councillors showed up – was scheduled to be held under the Chatham House Rule.

But the rule is a ‘gentleman’s agreement’ usually used in business circles and is not legally enforceable at public meetings – leading to one councillor suggesting the council is attempting to suppress free speech.

The idea is championed by chairman Cllr David Brown, who said it was brought in because members were unhappy with posts made about them and the council on Hazlemere Residents Association 2009’s website.

He said: “Councillors have approached me to say they are not happy with what’s being written on the [HRA] blogs. We are being named and accused of things that didn’t happen or our words are being twisted.

“I remembered the Chatham House Rule from my college days. There’s no difference how the meeting is reported, but instead of ‘so-and-so said...’ it would be ‘it was said...’ so there’s no comeback to try and stop the blog site.

“It’s something I would like to continue and the feedback I’m receiving is the councillors want to do this as I’m told they are taking a hammering [on the HRA site]."

The Free Press informed Cllr Brown that the Chatham House Rule could not be legally imposed and the BFP could continue reporting speakers’ names, even if councillors proceeded with the principle.

Cllr Brown responded: "It’s all done on trust and if you did that, no-one would trust you and you wouldn’t get people talking to you."

The rule originated in 1927 at Chatham House, home of the Royal Institute of International Affairs, to provide anonymity to speakers and encourage free speech.

It states: “When a meeting, or part thereof, is held under the Chatham House Rule, participants are free to use the information received, but neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s), nor that of any other participant, may be revealed.”

Wycombe District Council’s spokesman Sue Robinson confirmed the rule does not apply to parish council meetings.

Cllr Brian Mapletoft – a former chairman of the HRA and one of just three councillors who attended Tuesday night’s meeting before it was called off – has demanded the chairman withdraw the use of the rule.

He said: “I’d like to apologise unreservedly to the community for the behaviour of my fellow councillors on Tuesday.

“However, the chairman has to have the humility to retract his absurd application of the Chatham House Rule to public council meetings.”

He accused councillors backing the Chatham House Rule of “hiding behind anonymity”, before adding: “However you dress it up, it’s an attempt to curtail freedom of speech and reporting.”

Tony Howard, committee member of the HRA, said the council had not been in contact with them about the contents of its blogs.

BFP editor Steve Cohen confirmed the paper would continue with its policy of naming councillors, wherever possible, who speak or make decisions at public meetings.

Simon Westrop, lawyer for the Newsquest Media Group, the BFP's parent company, said: “The ‘Chatham House Rule’ is not a law. It is certainly not enforceable against the public or the press.

“It is just a convention sometimes used in private debating societies and clubs to encourage uninhibited discussion by giving anonymity to the participants, so their views may be acknowledged but not attributed.

“By contrast, of course, the real law actually requires parish council meetings to be open to the public.

"It is extraordinary and alarming that a parish council thinks it could ever be appropriate in a democratic society to try to use a debating society convention of this kind in order to avoid individual accountability to the electorate.

“It is essential that voters know what the people they have elected to public office are doing and saying on their behalf. The press are the eyes and ears of the public in this regard.

“But there can be no effective scrutiny of parish councils if efforts are made to suppress reporting of the identities of participants in meetings.”

Comments (16)

10:44am Fri 8 Mar 13

stir up says...

the BFR is doing the right thing and will gain more trust from the public even if some councillors say they will not trust the paper in future. The electors need to know what their representatives views are on the matters that effect the parish.
the BFR is doing the right thing and will gain more trust from the public even if some councillors say they will not trust the paper in future. The electors need to know what their representatives views are on the matters that effect the parish. stir up

11:00am Fri 8 Mar 13

OneArmJack says...

How do these idiots manage to get elected?
How do these idiots manage to get elected? OneArmJack

11:11am Fri 8 Mar 13

Mutley says...

If the council thinks that the HRA website/blog is misquoting or mis-attributing words then there are libel and defamation of character laws that address such things. I'm sure it's part of the job for councillors/MPs/publ
ic servants and the like that they need to be aware of even if it is sometimes unjustified and unpalletable.
If the council thinks that the HRA website/blog is misquoting or mis-attributing words then there are libel and defamation of character laws that address such things. I'm sure it's part of the job for councillors/MPs/publ ic servants and the like that they need to be aware of even if it is sometimes unjustified and unpalletable. Mutley

11:22am Fri 8 Mar 13

Welwyn Dowd says...

If the blogs are seen to be defamatory by those mentioned in them then the publisher and author can be sued for libel. Anyone who wants to represent the public, set laws, levy taxes and spend public money must be visible and not lurk in anonymity. Be seen and take the credit for the good and suffer the shame if you get it wrong. It cuts both ways - the extremists on both sides will be exposed to public view and the rule of law.
If the blogs are seen to be defamatory by those mentioned in them then the publisher and author can be sued for libel. Anyone who wants to represent the public, set laws, levy taxes and spend public money must be visible and not lurk in anonymity. Be seen and take the credit for the good and suffer the shame if you get it wrong. It cuts both ways - the extremists on both sides will be exposed to public view and the rule of law. Welwyn Dowd

1:09pm Fri 8 Mar 13

Can I just say..... says...

It is not only at council level where elected officials want to hide behind anonymity - it goes right to the very top!


http://www.lymec.eu/
news/lymec-criticise
s-plans-anonymous-vo
ting-eu-budget

What is happening to the 'democracy' we thought we lived in?
It is not only at council level where elected officials want to hide behind anonymity - it goes right to the very top! http://www.lymec.eu/ news/lymec-criticise s-plans-anonymous-vo ting-eu-budget What is happening to the 'democracy' we thought we lived in? Can I just say.....

1:13pm Fri 8 Mar 13

Mike Henson says...

Parish Councils are governed by statute, in the main the Local Government Act 1972, the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the Localism Act 2012. Members of the Council are elected to represent their residents/parishione
rs so one would expect their views to echo those they represent. If an elected or co-opted member disagrees with the views of the electorate then those people have a right to challenge those with the member given the right to reply as it's not unusual for the members of the public to "grasp the wrong end of the stick". If the electorate fail to get satisfaction they should put forward candidates at the next election and force a ballot.
Sadly many members of the public don't get involved in the work of the parish council or vote at local elections so when a problem arises they only have themselves to blame.
Parish Councils are governed by statute, in the main the Local Government Act 1972, the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the Localism Act 2012. Members of the Council are elected to represent their residents/parishione rs so one would expect their views to echo those they represent. If an elected or co-opted member disagrees with the views of the electorate then those people have a right to challenge those with the member given the right to reply as it's not unusual for the members of the public to "grasp the wrong end of the stick". If the electorate fail to get satisfaction they should put forward candidates at the next election and force a ballot. Sadly many members of the public don't get involved in the work of the parish council or vote at local elections so when a problem arises they only have themselves to blame. Mike Henson

2:24pm Fri 8 Mar 13

Can I just say..... says...

Maybe all that is needed is for the electorate to have the right to recall their representative for failing to 'represent' their electorate?

The public would then become more engaged because they CAN influence what happens and not be forced to live with a mistake until the next election comes along.

How many manifesto promises have failed to materialise?
Maybe all that is needed is for the electorate to have the right to recall their representative for failing to 'represent' their electorate? The public would then become more engaged because they CAN influence what happens and not be forced to live with a mistake until the next election comes along. How many manifesto promises have failed to materialise? Can I just say.....

2:41pm Fri 8 Mar 13

HRA2009 says...

The stories and blogs on our site are accurate and peer reviewed, we have extensive audit trails, transcripts and notes to support our articles. Our members have requested we report on Hazlemere Parish Council meetings as they cannot get to meetings themselves. We get 15,000 - 18,000 hits per month and try to keep the articles topical. However, some would try to muzzle us, for the full story go to
http://www.bucksvoic
e.net/hra2009/weblog
/one-entry?entry_id=
4268491
There is a lot more to come..............Th
anks and all credit to the BFP for reporting this story as it has serious implications across England & Wales.
The stories and blogs on our site are accurate and peer reviewed, we have extensive audit trails, transcripts and notes to support our articles. Our members have requested we report on Hazlemere Parish Council meetings as they cannot get to meetings themselves. We get 15,000 - 18,000 hits per month and try to keep the articles topical. However, some would try to muzzle us, for the full story go to http://www.bucksvoic e.net/hra2009/weblog /one-entry?entry_id= 4268491 There is a lot more to come..............Th anks and all credit to the BFP for reporting this story as it has serious implications across England & Wales. HRA2009

4:29pm Fri 8 Mar 13

geoffW says...

Maybe there should be complete anonymity when it comes to elections. No names, no pictures, just boxes marked A, B, C, D etc.

Maybe these councillors should be made to wear full-face balaclavars/ski masks and put on funny voices when electioneering. They could wear jackets with their "letter" on them.
Maybe there should be complete anonymity when it comes to elections. No names, no pictures, just boxes marked A, B, C, D etc. Maybe these councillors should be made to wear full-face balaclavars/ski masks and put on funny voices when electioneering. They could wear jackets with their "letter" on them. geoffW

5:53pm Fri 8 Mar 13

MCarey says...

I would really like to know exactly what Hazlemere Parish Council does except bung more money onto the resident's council tax, the other day we received a letter asking our opinion on adding a few more councillors to the Council! my opinion is no because it seems as if none of them turn up anyway and if we have to pay more for this you have got to be joking. The council seems to have a lovely red 4x4 that drives around the village doing who knows what can someone please enlighten me.
I would really like to know exactly what Hazlemere Parish Council does except bung more money onto the resident's council tax, the other day we received a letter asking our opinion on adding a few more councillors to the Council! my opinion is no because it seems as if none of them turn up anyway and if we have to pay more for this you have got to be joking. The council seems to have a lovely red 4x4 that drives around the village doing who knows what can someone please enlighten me. MCarey

6:14pm Fri 8 Mar 13

stir up says...

Some are suggesting that councillors should reflect the views of the electorate, in fact they are not delegates who have to follow what those sending them to meetings want, as representatives they do not have to do this and can do what they like and put their own views and vote how they feel even if it against what most of the parishoners want. As has been mentioned if you want to change things stand for election, but if you do be carefut of what you promise to do, often once on a council some find they cannot do much with just a single vote.
Some are suggesting that councillors should reflect the views of the electorate, in fact they are not delegates who have to follow what those sending them to meetings want, as representatives they do not have to do this and can do what they like and put their own views and vote how they feel even if it against what most of the parishoners want. As has been mentioned if you want to change things stand for election, but if you do be carefut of what you promise to do, often once on a council some find they cannot do much with just a single vote. stir up

12:13pm Sat 9 Mar 13

Mike Henson says...

The number of members who sit on the Parish Council is governed by the Electoral Roll. Councillors receive no payment but they can claim reasonable expenses for pre-approved activities. This information is available on request but should be on the council website.
The number of members who sit on the Parish Council is governed by the Electoral Roll. Councillors receive no payment but they can claim reasonable expenses for pre-approved activities. This information is available on request but should be on the council website. Mike Henson

12:22pm Sat 9 Mar 13

Mike Henson says...

Most parish councils have a period of 15/20 minutes set aside at the start of the meeting to allow parishioners to comment upon matters that appear on the agenda. This is not part of the official meeting and there is no requirement for members to respond or minutes to be taken. Council minutes usually note the number of parishioners attending but not their names.
Most parish councils have a period of 15/20 minutes set aside at the start of the meeting to allow parishioners to comment upon matters that appear on the agenda. This is not part of the official meeting and there is no requirement for members to respond or minutes to be taken. Council minutes usually note the number of parishioners attending but not their names. Mike Henson

12:46pm Sun 10 Mar 13

Scarletto says...

Surprised with this council which was once a good one and straight dealing. They should feel ashamed and review their awful decision.
Surprised with this council which was once a good one and straight dealing. They should feel ashamed and review their awful decision. Scarletto

8:12pm Sun 10 Mar 13

gpn01 says...

“Councillors have approached me to say they are not happy with what’s being written on the blogs. We are being named and accused of things that didn’t happen or our words are being twisted.".
.
Isn't the simple solution the publication of official minutes? If the HRA blogs are inaccurate then I'm sure a simple request for them to be corrected should be sufficient. If they're libelous then shortly they'd correct them to avoid possible litigation?
“Councillors have approached me to say they are not happy with what’s being written on the [HRA] blogs. We are being named and accused of things that didn’t happen or our words are being twisted.". . Isn't the simple solution the publication of official minutes? If the HRA blogs are inaccurate then I'm sure a simple request for them to be corrected should be sufficient. If they're libelous then shortly they'd correct them to avoid possible litigation? gpn01

10:58pm Sun 10 Mar 13

Mike Henson says...

Legally, there is nothing they can do about comments that are written in the media, it goes with the job.

With regard to the publication of minutes, what we see here is a situation where procedures are not being followed correctly. You need to go back to pre-computerisation. The councils officers would write a report about something that they needed direction on from the council, this report may have been at the officers behest or by an enquiry from a member at an earlier meeting. The report would then be circulated to members prior to the meeting as an appendix to the agenda. At the meeting the members would discuss the matter and formulate a resolution. The only time that members comments would be recorded is if it was requested by the member. The chairman would call for a vote and the resolution would either be carried or not. The result of the vote would not be recorded unless a member requested it and again it might record a members abstention or vote if that member wanted the information reported. Sometimes a member might propose an amendment to the resolution and if this occurred there would be a vote on the amendment before the resolution. This meant that, as soon as the meeting closed the minutes were available and published when typed. There is nothing to be gained in legal terms by holding minutes over until the next meeting for ratification which is why Eric Pickles, in a press release two weeks ago, advocated the audio/video recording of meetings together with blogging and tweeting from within the meeting. Many councils are now regularly streaming their meetings on their websites in the interests of transparency.
Legally, there is nothing they can do about comments that are written in the media, it goes with the job. With regard to the publication of minutes, what we see here is a situation where procedures are not being followed correctly. You need to go back to pre-computerisation. The councils officers would write a report about something that they needed direction on from the council, this report may have been at the officers behest or by an enquiry from a member at an earlier meeting. The report would then be circulated to members prior to the meeting as an appendix to the agenda. At the meeting the members would discuss the matter and formulate a resolution. The only time that members comments would be recorded is if it was requested by the member. The chairman would call for a vote and the resolution would either be carried or not. The result of the vote would not be recorded unless a member requested it and again it might record a members abstention or vote if that member wanted the information reported. Sometimes a member might propose an amendment to the resolution and if this occurred there would be a vote on the amendment before the resolution. This meant that, as soon as the meeting closed the minutes were available and published when typed. There is nothing to be gained in legal terms by holding minutes over until the next meeting for ratification which is why Eric Pickles, in a press release two weeks ago, advocated the audio/video recording of meetings together with blogging and tweeting from within the meeting. Many councils are now regularly streaming their meetings on their websites in the interests of transparency. Mike Henson

Comments are closed on this article.

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