Transport minister Robert Goodwill urges police to be more lenient with cyclists riding on pavements

Bucks Free Press: Minister urges police to be more lenient on cyclists riding on pavements Minister urges police to be more lenient on cyclists riding on pavements

Police should be more lenient with cyclists who mount the pavement at dangerous sections of road, the police have been told.

The advice comes from transport minister Robert Goodwill amid claims that police are ignoring official advice.

He said enforcing laws prohibiting cycling on pavements is a matter for police, but he argues discretion should be exercised “where a cyclist is using the pavement alongside a dangerous section of road out of fear of the traffic”.

He referred to guidance from 1999, when fixed penalties for cycling on pavements were introduced, which say the aim is not to penalise “responsible cyclists”.

The guidance says: “The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other pavement users.

"Chief police officers, who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required.”

 

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6:49am Wed 22 Jan 14

MunsterX says...

Any cyclist in fear of road traffic can dismount and walk with the cycle on the pavement at any time he chooses. Where fear and safety are concerned the speed of the onward journey on the pavement (ie mounted or dismounted) does not come into the discussion, the cyclist is now safe and the discussion ends.

I have a strong sense here that cyclists are lobbying for the police to clarify a more lenient interpretation of the law, that should not happen. Cycling is a grey area between 30mph life on the road and 4mph life on the pavement; the fact is that if a cyclist sends a pedestrian flying on the pavement he should not be able to cite any legal precedent in his defence but be prosecuted to the fullest possible extent!
Any cyclist in fear of road traffic can dismount and walk with the cycle on the pavement at any time he chooses. Where fear and safety are concerned the speed of the onward journey on the pavement (ie mounted or dismounted) does not come into the discussion, the cyclist is now safe and the discussion ends. I have a strong sense here that cyclists are lobbying for the police to clarify a more lenient interpretation of the law, that should not happen. Cycling is a grey area between 30mph life on the road and 4mph life on the pavement; the fact is that if a cyclist sends a pedestrian flying on the pavement he should not be able to cite any legal precedent in his defence but be prosecuted to the fullest possible extent! MunsterX

6:49am Wed 22 Jan 14

tigeran says...

Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!!
Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!! tigeran

7:42am Wed 22 Jan 14

Cuetip says...

The problem is that increasingly cyclists are being literally squeezed off our streets which were not really designed for the bigger lorries and the increased traffic congestion due to significant increases in population. Many parents actually discourage children from cycling to school.

Interestingly a new survey that was in the news on the 10th Jan 2014, suggested people perceive cyclists as more intelligent and charitable than the average person.

In a psychological study conducted by scientists at Mindlab, an implicit association test examined people’s subconscious attitudes towards different sports and found people think cyclists have a unique blend of intelligence, generosity and the "cool factor".

The research, commissioned by the British Heart Foundation to mark their 39th London to Brighton Bike Ride, found cyclists are considered to be 13 per cent more intelligent and ‘cooler’ and ten per cent more charitable than other people.

Nearly a quarter of people in the study (23 per cent) said they would prefer to date a cyclist over other sporting people. More than one in four (27 per cent) would also want a cyclist on their pub quiz team.
The problem is that increasingly cyclists are being literally squeezed off our streets which were not really designed for the bigger lorries and the increased traffic congestion due to significant increases in population. Many parents actually discourage children from cycling to school. Interestingly a new survey that was in the news on the 10th Jan 2014, suggested people perceive cyclists as more intelligent and charitable than the average person. In a psychological study conducted by scientists at Mindlab, an implicit association test examined people’s subconscious attitudes towards different sports and found people think cyclists have a unique blend of intelligence, generosity and the "cool factor". The research, commissioned by the British Heart Foundation to mark their 39th London to Brighton Bike Ride, found cyclists are considered to be 13 per cent more intelligent and ‘cooler’ and ten per cent more charitable than other people. Nearly a quarter of people in the study (23 per cent) said they would prefer to date a cyclist over other sporting people. More than one in four (27 per cent) would also want a cyclist on their pub quiz team. Cuetip

7:42am Wed 22 Jan 14

gusgreen says...

tigeran wrote:
Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!!
Quite agree.
It take an out of touch politician to come up with another hair brain suggestion that endangers pedestrians in the name of safety. Absolutely BONKERS!!
[quote][p][bold]tigeran[/bold] wrote: Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!![/p][/quote]Quite agree. It take an out of touch politician to come up with another hair brain suggestion that endangers pedestrians in the name of safety. Absolutely BONKERS!! gusgreen

7:43am Wed 22 Jan 14

rem708 says...

Cyclists are uninsured and therefore hurting someone on a pavement may mean the pedestrian may have no chance of compensation in what could be a long recovery.

A very BAD idea
Cyclists are uninsured and therefore hurting someone on a pavement may mean the pedestrian may have no chance of compensation in what could be a long recovery. A very BAD idea rem708

8:21am Wed 22 Jan 14

demoness the second says...

We need more cycling lanes. I am a little tired of the "OMG aren't cyclists wonderful and they can do no wrong" lobby.
I also completely discount the rather dubious findings that say most people think that cyclists are more intelligent blah blah - there is no real evidence. It is based on opinion. Probably completed by cyclists so the research ( if it can be called that) will be fundamentally flawed.
Having said all that, we do need to make the roads safer. I think that cycling should not be allowed on pedestrian footpath under any circumstances so the answer is more cycle lanes and cycle paths.
Live and let live but not at the expense of other people's safety.
We need more cycling lanes. I am a little tired of the "OMG aren't cyclists wonderful and they can do no wrong" lobby. I also completely discount the rather dubious findings that say most people think that cyclists are more intelligent blah blah - there is no real evidence. It is based on opinion. Probably completed by cyclists so the research ( if it can be called that) will be fundamentally flawed. Having said all that, we do need to make the roads safer. I think that cycling should not be allowed on pedestrian footpath under any circumstances so the answer is more cycle lanes and cycle paths. Live and let live but not at the expense of other people's safety. demoness the second

9:02am Wed 22 Jan 14

Reader (R) says...

More intelligent?? A cyclist pedals up the nearside of a lorry waiting at traffic lights, the lorry has indicator repeater lights flashing along it's length and an audible warning telling those close by it intends to turn left when the lights change. The driver cannot see the cyclist in his mirror and is somewhat guided by the warning systems given off by his vehicle that he is safe to turn. End result the cyclist tragically died.

Intelligence is a wonderful attribute but only so when it is coupled with common sense.
More intelligent?? A cyclist pedals up the nearside of a lorry waiting at traffic lights, the lorry has indicator repeater lights flashing along it's length and an audible warning telling those close by it intends to turn left when the lights change. The driver cannot see the cyclist in his mirror and is somewhat guided by the warning systems given off by his vehicle that he is safe to turn. End result the cyclist tragically died. Intelligence is a wonderful attribute but only so when it is coupled with common sense. Reader (R)

9:07am Wed 22 Jan 14

Taxidermist says...

demoness the second wrote:
We need more cycling lanes. I am a little tired of the "OMG aren't cyclists wonderful and they can do no wrong" lobby.
I also completely discount the rather dubious findings that say most people think that cyclists are more intelligent blah blah - there is no real evidence. It is based on opinion. Probably completed by cyclists so the research ( if it can be called that) will be fundamentally flawed.
Having said all that, we do need to make the roads safer. I think that cycling should not be allowed on pedestrian footpath under any circumstances so the answer is more cycle lanes and cycle paths.
Live and let live but not at the expense of other people's safety.
Anyone who has watched 'Yes Prime Minister' will know that you can make a survey tell you anything you want depending on how the questions are worded.
[quote][p][bold]demoness the second[/bold] wrote: We need more cycling lanes. I am a little tired of the "OMG aren't cyclists wonderful and they can do no wrong" lobby. I also completely discount the rather dubious findings that say most people think that cyclists are more intelligent blah blah - there is no real evidence. It is based on opinion. Probably completed by cyclists so the research ( if it can be called that) will be fundamentally flawed. Having said all that, we do need to make the roads safer. I think that cycling should not be allowed on pedestrian footpath under any circumstances so the answer is more cycle lanes and cycle paths. Live and let live but not at the expense of other people's safety.[/p][/quote]Anyone who has watched 'Yes Prime Minister' will know that you can make a survey tell you anything you want depending on how the questions are worded. Taxidermist

9:29am Wed 22 Jan 14

aaaali says...

Why should cyclists be permitted to ride on the pavement? Not that they don't already.

Last week while sitting in traffic on the High St a cyclist squeezed himself onto the pavement between the bus AT THE BUS STOP and the bus shelter scattering people. then he jumped his bike off the pavement and through the traffic lights which were showing a wonderful RED!

I have also seen cyclists riding on pavements towards the traffic with their most wonderful (ILLEGAL) flashing LED lights shining directly in the drivers' faces.

Another fact to consider is the speed these cyclists ride. it's not a few mph. Many hit 30-40 mph

Seems once again that a minister has no common sense!
Why should cyclists be permitted to ride on the pavement? Not that they don't already. Last week while sitting in traffic on the High St a cyclist squeezed himself onto the pavement between the bus AT THE BUS STOP and the bus shelter scattering people. then he jumped his bike off the pavement and through the traffic lights which were showing a wonderful RED! I have also seen cyclists riding on pavements towards the traffic with their most wonderful (ILLEGAL) flashing LED lights shining directly in the drivers' faces. Another fact to consider is the speed these cyclists ride. it's not a few mph. Many hit 30-40 mph Seems once again that a minister has no common sense! aaaali

9:31am Wed 22 Jan 14

TRT says...

I've yet to see a cyclist being stopped for using the pavement. Oddly, in the centre of London, the vast majority of cyclists are on the road, whereas in Watford the vast majority use the pavement (though I do see a fair few of them on the road). There should also be a crackdown on illegal lighting on cycles - the other night , after the lighting switch off, I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike without lights in the middle of an unlit street. I drive to keep an easy stopping distance within my range of vision, but many drivers don't seem to do that.
I've yet to see a cyclist being stopped for using the pavement. Oddly, in the centre of London, the vast majority of cyclists are on the road, whereas in Watford the vast majority use the pavement (though I do see a fair few of them on the road). There should also be a crackdown on illegal lighting on cycles - the other night , after the lighting switch off, I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike without lights in the middle of an unlit street. I drive to keep an easy stopping distance within my range of vision, but many drivers don't seem to do that. TRT

9:41am Wed 22 Jan 14

TRT says...

aaaali wrote:
Why should cyclists be permitted to ride on the pavement? Not that they don't already.

Last week while sitting in traffic on the High St a cyclist squeezed himself onto the pavement between the bus AT THE BUS STOP and the bus shelter scattering people. then he jumped his bike off the pavement and through the traffic lights which were showing a wonderful RED!

I have also seen cyclists riding on pavements towards the traffic with their most wonderful (ILLEGAL) flashing LED lights shining directly in the drivers' faces.

Another fact to consider is the speed these cyclists ride. it's not a few mph. Many hit 30-40 mph

Seems once again that a minister has no common sense!
The law on cycle lighting was changed a few years ago. Flashing red and white lights are no longer illegal if fixed to the bike (they previously had to be worn on clothing and static red and whites fitted to the bike frame). They do, however, have to conform to an EU minimum and maximum specification for brightness, duty cycle and pattern. And they are still bound by UK law in that the light should not be a nuisance to other road users.
[quote][p][bold]aaaali[/bold] wrote: Why should cyclists be permitted to ride on the pavement? Not that they don't already. Last week while sitting in traffic on the High St a cyclist squeezed himself onto the pavement between the bus AT THE BUS STOP and the bus shelter scattering people. then he jumped his bike off the pavement and through the traffic lights which were showing a wonderful RED! I have also seen cyclists riding on pavements towards the traffic with their most wonderful (ILLEGAL) flashing LED lights shining directly in the drivers' faces. Another fact to consider is the speed these cyclists ride. it's not a few mph. Many hit 30-40 mph Seems once again that a minister has no common sense![/p][/quote]The law on cycle lighting was changed a few years ago. Flashing red and white lights are no longer illegal if fixed to the bike (they previously had to be worn on clothing and static red and whites fitted to the bike frame). They do, however, have to conform to an EU minimum and maximum specification for brightness, duty cycle and pattern. And they are still bound by UK law in that the light should not be a nuisance to other road users. TRT

9:48am Wed 22 Jan 14

Bill Taxpayer says...

tigeran wrote:
Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!!
"They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians "

Bit of a sweeping generalisation, don't you think?
[quote][p][bold]tigeran[/bold] wrote: Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!![/p][/quote]"They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians " Bit of a sweeping generalisation, don't you think? Bill Taxpayer

9:48am Wed 22 Jan 14

watfoid says...

About 90% of cyclists ride on the pavement in Watford. Up the St Alban's Road, which is not a busy or dangerous road you almost never see a cyclist riding on the tarmac. You also never see them get caught. So, no, I don't think more lenience is needed in this instance. That said, also up the same road, about 90% of side road pavements are blocked by cars parking on them - right in the middle of the pavement and across dropped kerbs, so any disabled resident cannot pass. The drivers wait until the traffic wardens are off duty and then dump their cars overnight. If you don't believe me, go and look tonight. UK roads are a society in disorder.

So let's not single out cyclists for condemnation - *everyone* is in on this. You don't get this madness in Holland or Germany because they just obey the rules. Delinquent road use is a very British disease - everyone needs to start taking more responsibility for their own behaviour instead of blaming other people.
About 90% of cyclists ride on the pavement in Watford. Up the St Alban's Road, which is not a busy or dangerous road you almost never see a cyclist riding on the tarmac. You also never see them get caught. So, no, I don't think more lenience is needed in this instance. That said, also up the same road, about 90% of side road pavements are blocked by cars parking on them - right in the middle of the pavement and across dropped kerbs, so any disabled resident cannot pass. The drivers wait until the traffic wardens are off duty and then dump their cars overnight. If you don't believe me, go and look tonight. UK roads are a society in disorder. So let's not single out cyclists for condemnation - *everyone* is in on this. You don't get this madness in Holland or Germany because they just obey the rules. Delinquent road use is a very British disease - everyone needs to start taking more responsibility for their own behaviour instead of blaming other people. watfoid

10:22am Wed 22 Jan 14

dbanes says...

Having lived in Sydney, Australia for 15 years I got used to sharing the pavements with cyclists and having been a keen cyclist in my younger days I quickly realised that it's far safer for everyone. If the pavement is busy they just get off and walk or get onto the road, if they ride recklessly on pavements they get pinged.
Having lived in Sydney, Australia for 15 years I got used to sharing the pavements with cyclists and having been a keen cyclist in my younger days I quickly realised that it's far safer for everyone. If the pavement is busy they just get off and walk or get onto the road, if they ride recklessly on pavements they get pinged. dbanes

10:48am Wed 22 Jan 14

Watford Voice of reason says...

Having been nearly knocked over three times already this year (and it's still January) by cyclists on the pavement, this is a crazy suggestion. If cyclists wish to use the pavement, they should simply get off their bike and walk pushing the bike.

Too often I am seeing cyclists riding on the pavement at speed, with no lights on in the dark and also frequently with earphones, presumably listening to music.

Some of the worst offenders are Boys Grammar School kids using the pavements of Stratford Road and Stratford Way to access Cassiobury Park. One actually hooked my coat sleeve with his handlebars on Monday morning.

Whatever happened to school cycling proficiency lessons and why do we never see local police reprimanding cyclists for using pavements and or cycling in the dark with no lights?

End of rant!
Having been nearly knocked over three times already this year (and it's still January) by cyclists on the pavement, this is a crazy suggestion. If cyclists wish to use the pavement, they should simply get off their bike and walk pushing the bike. Too often I am seeing cyclists riding on the pavement at speed, with no lights on in the dark and also frequently with earphones, presumably listening to music. Some of the worst offenders are Boys Grammar School kids using the pavements of Stratford Road and Stratford Way to access Cassiobury Park. One actually hooked my coat sleeve with his handlebars on Monday morning. Whatever happened to school cycling proficiency lessons and why do we never see local police reprimanding cyclists for using pavements and or cycling in the dark with no lights? End of rant! Watford Voice of reason

11:33am Wed 22 Jan 14

Home Truths says...

Cyclists are an absolute menace to everybody and should be banned completely. We would all be a lot safer without them.
Cyclists are an absolute menace to everybody and should be banned completely. We would all be a lot safer without them. Home Truths

11:39am Wed 22 Jan 14

abbotshornet says...

tigeran wrote:
Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!!
People have already been killed by cyclist on the path, it's a very dangerous practice that should be clamped down on by the police.
As has been previously stated they should dismount if they want to go on the pavement.
[quote][p][bold]tigeran[/bold] wrote: Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!![/p][/quote]People have already been killed by cyclist on the path, it's a very dangerous practice that should be clamped down on by the police. As has been previously stated they should dismount if they want to go on the pavement. abbotshornet

11:45am Wed 22 Jan 14

wrinkly38 says...

Here we go again, inviting more thuggish behaviour, it will be an open day if allowed to increase, you could see bag snatching, mugging, hit and flee, pushchair collisions, pavement rage, racing round the supermarkets pilfering.
Wake up Mr Goodwill, the 50s are over, manners no longer apply on roads or pavements, so don't start talking a load of tosh, and let our police take care of the safety of pedestrians on payments built to walk on!!
Here we go again, inviting more thuggish behaviour, it will be an open day if allowed to increase, you could see bag snatching, mugging, hit and flee, pushchair collisions, pavement rage, racing round the supermarkets pilfering. Wake up Mr Goodwill, the 50s are over, manners no longer apply on roads or pavements, so don't start talking a load of tosh, and let our police take care of the safety of pedestrians on payments built to walk on!! wrinkly38

12:23pm Wed 22 Jan 14

big don g the 1st says...

Can I ride my motorbike on the pavement if it helps me to get through gaps and negotiate traffic jams? Can my girlfriend ride her horse on the pavement? No. So they can get off their s0dding bikes and push them until it is safe to ride again.
Can I ride my motorbike on the pavement if it helps me to get through gaps and negotiate traffic jams? Can my girlfriend ride her horse on the pavement? No. So they can get off their s0dding bikes and push them until it is safe to ride again. big don g the 1st

3:03pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Dickitdo says...

Cycling is now a very dangerous thing to do ,and has been for many years. It is time for a rethink on cycling . They are obviously a danger too themselves and other road and footpath users. I believe that there should be compulsory training and testing for all cyclists and strictly enforced legislation governing the use of these death traps. They must not be ridden on the pedestrian pavements under any circumstances !.
Cycling is now a very dangerous thing to do ,and has been for many years. It is time for a rethink on cycling . They are obviously a danger too themselves and other road and footpath users. I believe that there should be compulsory training and testing for all cyclists and strictly enforced legislation governing the use of these death traps. They must not be ridden on the pedestrian pavements under any circumstances !. Dickitdo

5:47pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Harry H Hornet says...

TRT wrote:
I've yet to see a cyclist being stopped for using the pavement. Oddly, in the centre of London, the vast majority of cyclists are on the road, whereas in Watford the vast majority use the pavement (though I do see a fair few of them on the road). There should also be a crackdown on illegal lighting on cycles - the other night , after the lighting switch off, I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike without lights in the middle of an unlit street. I drive to keep an easy stopping distance within my range of vision, but many drivers don't seem to do that.
" I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike"

Not very PC, are you sure that you are allowed to say that ?
[quote][p][bold]TRT[/bold] wrote: I've yet to see a cyclist being stopped for using the pavement. Oddly, in the centre of London, the vast majority of cyclists are on the road, whereas in Watford the vast majority use the pavement (though I do see a fair few of them on the road). There should also be a crackdown on illegal lighting on cycles - the other night , after the lighting switch off, I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike without lights in the middle of an unlit street. I drive to keep an easy stopping distance within my range of vision, but many drivers don't seem to do that.[/p][/quote]" I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike" Not very PC, are you sure that you are allowed to say that ? Harry H Hornet

6:19pm Wed 22 Jan 14

TRT says...

Harry H Hornet wrote:
TRT wrote:
I've yet to see a cyclist being stopped for using the pavement. Oddly, in the centre of London, the vast majority of cyclists are on the road, whereas in Watford the vast majority use the pavement (though I do see a fair few of them on the road). There should also be a crackdown on illegal lighting on cycles - the other night , after the lighting switch off, I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike without lights in the middle of an unlit street. I drive to keep an easy stopping distance within my range of vision, but many drivers don't seem to do that.
" I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike"

Not very PC, are you sure that you are allowed to say that ?
Yes. He didn't have a hat on, and he was almost bald.
[quote][p][bold]Harry H Hornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TRT[/bold] wrote: I've yet to see a cyclist being stopped for using the pavement. Oddly, in the centre of London, the vast majority of cyclists are on the road, whereas in Watford the vast majority use the pavement (though I do see a fair few of them on the road). There should also be a crackdown on illegal lighting on cycles - the other night , after the lighting switch off, I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike without lights in the middle of an unlit street. I drive to keep an easy stopping distance within my range of vision, but many drivers don't seem to do that.[/p][/quote]" I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike" Not very PC, are you sure that you are allowed to say that ?[/p][/quote]Yes. He didn't have a hat on, and he was almost bald. TRT

6:30pm Wed 22 Jan 14

Dickitdo says...

Harry H Hornet wrote:
TRT wrote:
I've yet to see a cyclist being stopped for using the pavement. Oddly, in the centre of London, the vast majority of cyclists are on the road, whereas in Watford the vast majority use the pavement (though I do see a fair few of them on the road). There should also be a crackdown on illegal lighting on cycles - the other night , after the lighting switch off, I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike without lights in the middle of an unlit street. I drive to keep an easy stopping distance within my range of vision, but many drivers don't seem to do that.
" I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike"

Not very PC, are you sure that you are allowed to say that ?
How do you suggest that Harry H Hornet ,describes what he has seen . He described what he saw in the correct and proper way . Just maybe you are being small minded or derogatory ",Get a life ".
[quote][p][bold]Harry H Hornet[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]TRT[/bold] wrote: I've yet to see a cyclist being stopped for using the pavement. Oddly, in the centre of London, the vast majority of cyclists are on the road, whereas in Watford the vast majority use the pavement (though I do see a fair few of them on the road). There should also be a crackdown on illegal lighting on cycles - the other night , after the lighting switch off, I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike without lights in the middle of an unlit street. I drive to keep an easy stopping distance within my range of vision, but many drivers don't seem to do that.[/p][/quote]" I was shocked by the near invisibility of a dark-skinned man wearing black clothes on a black bike" Not very PC, are you sure that you are allowed to say that ?[/p][/quote]How do you suggest that Harry H Hornet ,describes what he has seen . He described what he saw in the correct and proper way . Just maybe you are being small minded or derogatory ",Get a life ". Dickitdo

1:11am Thu 23 Jan 14

Honest Rog says...

tigeran wrote:
Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!!
I'm a cyclist and am neither rude, ignorant nor constantly breaking the law. A pedestrian is more in danger from bag snatchers, ATM con merchants and chuggers on the pavement than polite, intelligent and law abiding cyclists.
If pedestrians are so concerned about cyclists on "their" pavements then maybe they should respect the cycle lanes running alongside the pavement and not stroll along them oblivious of the needs of cyclists. Maybe the hot air generated on these anti-cyclist rants would be more effective against the common enemy, the motorist who arrogantly parks two ( sometimes four!) wheels on the pavement. Now there's a danger!
[quote][p][bold]tigeran[/bold] wrote: Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!![/p][/quote]I'm a cyclist and am neither rude, ignorant nor constantly breaking the law. A pedestrian is more in danger from bag snatchers, ATM con merchants and chuggers on the pavement than polite, intelligent and law abiding cyclists. If pedestrians are so concerned about cyclists on "their" pavements then maybe they should respect the cycle lanes running alongside the pavement and not stroll along them oblivious of the needs of cyclists. Maybe the hot air generated on these anti-cyclist rants would be more effective against the common enemy, the motorist who arrogantly parks two ( sometimes four!) wheels on the pavement. Now there's a danger! Honest Rog

10:13am Thu 23 Jan 14

big don g the 1st says...

Honest Rog wrote:
tigeran wrote:
Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!!
I'm a cyclist and am neither rude, ignorant nor constantly breaking the law. A pedestrian is more in danger from bag snatchers, ATM con merchants and chuggers on the pavement than polite, intelligent and law abiding cyclists.
If pedestrians are so concerned about cyclists on "their" pavements then maybe they should respect the cycle lanes running alongside the pavement and not stroll along them oblivious of the needs of cyclists. Maybe the hot air generated on these anti-cyclist rants would be more effective against the common enemy, the motorist who arrogantly parks two ( sometimes four!) wheels on the pavement. Now there's a danger!
Let's make a pavement specifically for cyclists and chuggers.
[quote][p][bold]Honest Rog[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tigeran[/bold] wrote: Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!![/p][/quote]I'm a cyclist and am neither rude, ignorant nor constantly breaking the law. A pedestrian is more in danger from bag snatchers, ATM con merchants and chuggers on the pavement than polite, intelligent and law abiding cyclists. If pedestrians are so concerned about cyclists on "their" pavements then maybe they should respect the cycle lanes running alongside the pavement and not stroll along them oblivious of the needs of cyclists. Maybe the hot air generated on these anti-cyclist rants would be more effective against the common enemy, the motorist who arrogantly parks two ( sometimes four!) wheels on the pavement. Now there's a danger![/p][/quote]Let's make a pavement specifically for cyclists and chuggers. big don g the 1st

2:45pm Thu 23 Jan 14

Dickitdo says...

Honest Rog wrote:
tigeran wrote:
Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!!
I'm a cyclist and am neither rude, ignorant nor constantly breaking the law. A pedestrian is more in danger from bag snatchers, ATM con merchants and chuggers on the pavement than polite, intelligent and law abiding cyclists.
If pedestrians are so concerned about cyclists on "their" pavements then maybe they should respect the cycle lanes running alongside the pavement and not stroll along them oblivious of the needs of cyclists. Maybe the hot air generated on these anti-cyclist rants would be more effective against the common enemy, the motorist who arrogantly parks two ( sometimes four!) wheels on the pavement. Now there's a danger!
"Self Praise Is No Recommendation".
[quote][p][bold]Honest Rog[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]tigeran[/bold] wrote: Cyclists are absolute menaces. They are rude, ignorant and constantly break the law with absolutely no consideration for other road users or pedestrians and now they want them to use the pavements as well?!! My god there will be deaths on the pavements now with selfish cyclist running into the most vulnerable, the old and children. Madness!![/p][/quote]I'm a cyclist and am neither rude, ignorant nor constantly breaking the law. A pedestrian is more in danger from bag snatchers, ATM con merchants and chuggers on the pavement than polite, intelligent and law abiding cyclists. If pedestrians are so concerned about cyclists on "their" pavements then maybe they should respect the cycle lanes running alongside the pavement and not stroll along them oblivious of the needs of cyclists. Maybe the hot air generated on these anti-cyclist rants would be more effective against the common enemy, the motorist who arrogantly parks two ( sometimes four!) wheels on the pavement. Now there's a danger![/p][/quote]"Self Praise Is No Recommendation". Dickitdo

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