'Teething problems' as new parking system off to shaky start

'Teething problems' as new parking system off to shaky start

'Teething problems' as new parking system off to shaky start

First published in News Bucks Free Press: Photograph of the Author by , Reporter

A LONG-AWAITED solution to some of Marlow’s parking woes got off to a shaky start, with a new automated system causing confusion and breaking down in its first fortnight.

Long queues began appearing in Wycombe District Council-run car parks after the Automatic Number Plate Recognition System was installed last month.

And after the new machines in Central car park were covered on Sunday after problems, residents and visitors enjoyed free parking at an estimated cost of at least £3500 to the council.

Residents contacted the MFP after scenes of confusion in WDC’s car parks as motorists got used the new system during the busy holiday tourist season.

Reader Bob Street, who had already registered his car online, said: "There were a lot of angry people, some of them were fuming. People seemed to know nothing about it and I guess we all lose our rag from time to time.

"It looked as if people were confronted with this unexpectedly and quite a few had to go back to their cars because they couldn’t remember their registration numbers. There were some older people who didn’t seem to understand, I must admit I felt sorry for them."

Other residents encountered problems with the camera system, which automatically logs number plates for payment at the end of the stay.

Sarah Innes, who used ANPR on its first day, said not even help from council staff in the car park could get the system to work.

She said: "I have been told to keep (a receipt) because it is very likely that my 'payment' will not have been acknowledged at the office end because it did not contain my registration number and yet the camera will have recorded it, so I am likely to be issued with a fine!

"If this very poor start was then repeated, even only periodically, throughout the next few days, it is small wonder that queues built.

"It was of no surprise to me at all that the machines now have black bags over them because they are not functioning."

After teething problems with the cameras, officers took the machines in Central car park out of action on Sunday, with black bags still covering the new terminals as the BFP went to press late last week.

And with Central raking in over £247,000 in revenue in 2012-13, the costly period could lose the council as much as £5000 were the problem to extend to a week.

WDC insists it has stationed extra staff in council-run car parks during busy period while people get used to the new system, which requires parkers to type in their number plates before paying.

Spoeksman Sue Robinson said: "We have covered the payment kiosks for the time being as part of the change over to the new systems while our contractors do necessary fine tuning to our ANPR systems. We are taking this action to reduce inconvenience and confusion to our customers.

"The bags will be removed once WDC and the contractors have finished and checked the system.

"In the long term the new systems will deliver savings operating our car parks for the public "So for us it’s a case of a small loss in revenue in order to get ANPR in place and working correctly to give a better service at a reduced cost to the taxpayer."

With fewer machines than before in Pound Lane, Central and Liston Road car parks, WDC has accepted that queues are forming but insist it will die down as people use other ways - including online - to pay.

And with all the teething problems, WDC has confirmed it has not issued any penalty tickets during the first two weeks while residents get used to the system.

ANPR was trialled in High Wycombe before being rolled out in Marlow, with the exception of Riley Road and Dean Street car parks.

Tariffs remain the same, with the advantage that motorists only pay for the time they have used.

Comments (33)

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10:28am Sun 10 Aug 14

gpn01 says...

As it is the payment stations that are covered does this mean that those who have registered online are still being charged? I'm becoming increasingly concerned too that drivers have no proof that the machines were out of order when they tried to pay. Is there a risk that fines are in the post and that it'll be difficult to prove the machines were broken?
As it is the payment stations that are covered does this mean that those who have registered online are still being charged? I'm becoming increasingly concerned too that drivers have no proof that the machines were out of order when they tried to pay. Is there a risk that fines are in the post and that it'll be difficult to prove the machines were broken? gpn01
  • Score: 6

12:31pm Sun 10 Aug 14

navy says...

I parked in the Liston Road car park on Saturday and noted the following:

The payment machine is in the opposite position to the old one and in direct sunlight most of the day making it difficult to read.

The machine is at an awkward height, fine for someone of about 5'10 and above but shorter people will have to stand on the step which is to narrow and will lead to someone tripping..

Most people were having to tap the touch screen three times before it would register.

No change was given, this is possible at other parking machines why not this one.

I can only ever remember about two people queuing at the old machine, there seemed to be on average five while I was in the car park some of these were people that thought they had to register when they first parked.

I watched someone having difficulty with their registration number they then went to another screen that asked them for the time they entered and paid the required amount. If I understand this correctly you can park there all day then put in the wrong registration number and pay for 30 mins.

My 75 year old mother in law has said she will never use the car park again because she cannot understand how it works. My son said he cannot understand why she wont use it, easy question from someone who has been brought up to use modern technology, he might understand when he is 75 and struggling to use what ever money saving machine is in use then and there certainly wont be anyone there to ask.
I parked in the Liston Road car park on Saturday and noted the following: The payment machine is in the opposite position to the old one and in direct sunlight most of the day making it difficult to read. The machine is at an awkward height, fine for someone of about 5'10 and above but shorter people will have to stand on the step which is to narrow and will lead to someone tripping.. Most people were having to tap the touch screen three times before it would register. No change was given, this is possible at other parking machines why not this one. I can only ever remember about two people queuing at the old machine, there seemed to be on average five while I was in the car park some of these were people that thought they had to register when they first parked. I watched someone having difficulty with their registration number they then went to another screen that asked them for the time they entered and paid the required amount. If I understand this correctly you can park there all day then put in the wrong registration number and pay for 30 mins. My 75 year old mother in law has said she will never use the car park again because she cannot understand how it works. My son said he cannot understand why she wont use it, easy question from someone who has been brought up to use modern technology, he might understand when he is 75 and struggling to use what ever money saving machine is in use then and there certainly wont be anyone there to ask. navy
  • Score: 7

1:43pm Sun 10 Aug 14

Marl25 says...

What was wrong with the old system? These ones don't even give you change so they are making more money out of us.
What was wrong with the old system? These ones don't even give you change so they are making more money out of us. Marl25
  • Score: 7

2:00pm Sun 10 Aug 14

MisterH says...

If you think people are angry now, wait until they all start getting £100 fines for a 5 minute overstay.

The ANPR system at the Wycombe Lido is designed to extort money out of unsuspecting parents and NOTHING ELSE.
If you think people are angry now, wait until they all start getting £100 fines for a 5 minute overstay. The ANPR system at the Wycombe Lido is designed to extort money out of unsuspecting parents and NOTHING ELSE. MisterH
  • Score: 11

2:35pm Sun 10 Aug 14

St1973 says...

Come on people, is it that difficult.... Let me think.. You park, shop etc, you return to car park, you go to machine (and if you can't remember you reg should you be driving?) type in your reg and pay for the time you parked. You then have 10 mins to leave the car park.... If you find this too difficult you are probably one of the two drivers who have managed to hit my car in the car park over the last couple of years !!!
Come on people, is it that difficult.... Let me think.. You park, shop etc, you return to car park, you go to machine (and if you can't remember you reg should you be driving?) type in your reg and pay for the time you parked. You then have 10 mins to leave the car park.... If you find this too difficult you are probably one of the two drivers who have managed to hit my car in the car park over the last couple of years !!! St1973
  • Score: -4

2:44pm Sun 10 Aug 14

gpn01 says...

St1973 wrote:
Come on people, is it that difficult.... Let me think.. You park, shop etc, you return to car park, you go to machine (and if you can't remember you reg should you be driving?) type in your reg and pay for the time you parked. You then have 10 mins to leave the car park.... If you find this too difficult you are probably one of the two drivers who have managed to hit my car in the car park over the last couple of years !!!
Have you tried using it? Been broken on three occasions that I've tried to.
[quote][p][bold]St1973[/bold] wrote: Come on people, is it that difficult.... Let me think.. You park, shop etc, you return to car park, you go to machine (and if you can't remember you reg should you be driving?) type in your reg and pay for the time you parked. You then have 10 mins to leave the car park.... If you find this too difficult you are probably one of the two drivers who have managed to hit my car in the car park over the last couple of years !!![/p][/quote]Have you tried using it? Been broken on three occasions that I've tried to. gpn01
  • Score: 8

3:05pm Sun 10 Aug 14

J B Blackett says...

navy wrote:
I parked in the Liston Road car park on Saturday and noted the following:

The payment machine is in the opposite position to the old one and in direct sunlight most of the day making it difficult to read.

The machine is at an awkward height, fine for someone of about 5'10 and above but shorter people will have to stand on the step which is to narrow and will lead to someone tripping..

Most people were having to tap the touch screen three times before it would register.

No change was given, this is possible at other parking machines why not this one.

I can only ever remember about two people queuing at the old machine, there seemed to be on average five while I was in the car park some of these were people that thought they had to register when they first parked.

I watched someone having difficulty with their registration number they then went to another screen that asked them for the time they entered and paid the required amount. If I understand this correctly you can park there all day then put in the wrong registration number and pay for 30 mins.

My 75 year old mother in law has said she will never use the car park again because she cannot understand how it works. My son said he cannot understand why she wont use it, easy question from someone who has been brought up to use modern technology, he might understand when he is 75 and struggling to use what ever money saving machine is in use then and there certainly wont be anyone there to ask.
It's not good enough. Sack the Chief Ergonomist and his team
.
In fact might as well sack the whole Council while we are it.
.
Are we allowed to be at it , or will we have to forced to resort to the Human Rights Commission.
.
This is really not good enough ; we are governed by incompetents it would appear
[quote][p][bold]navy[/bold] wrote: I parked in the Liston Road car park on Saturday and noted the following: The payment machine is in the opposite position to the old one and in direct sunlight most of the day making it difficult to read. The machine is at an awkward height, fine for someone of about 5'10 and above but shorter people will have to stand on the step which is to narrow and will lead to someone tripping.. Most people were having to tap the touch screen three times before it would register. No change was given, this is possible at other parking machines why not this one. I can only ever remember about two people queuing at the old machine, there seemed to be on average five while I was in the car park some of these were people that thought they had to register when they first parked. I watched someone having difficulty with their registration number they then went to another screen that asked them for the time they entered and paid the required amount. If I understand this correctly you can park there all day then put in the wrong registration number and pay for 30 mins. My 75 year old mother in law has said she will never use the car park again because she cannot understand how it works. My son said he cannot understand why she wont use it, easy question from someone who has been brought up to use modern technology, he might understand when he is 75 and struggling to use what ever money saving machine is in use then and there certainly wont be anyone there to ask.[/p][/quote]It's not good enough. Sack the Chief Ergonomist and his team . In fact might as well sack the whole Council while we are it. . Are we allowed to be at it , or will we have to forced to resort to the Human Rights Commission. . This is really not good enough ; we are governed by incompetents it would appear J B Blackett
  • Score: 8

5:30pm Sun 10 Aug 14

busman2009 says...

Like any new system it will have start up problems....I regularly use Easton street in Wycombe, And find it much better that I only pay for the time I'm there and not have to guess then add a bit so I don't overstay. I have registered on line so do not have to find change etc. (AND before the usual crowd have their say this option will not suit everyone) Where I think it has failed is the advance information from WDC. A few days putting leaflets on cars might have helped. AND the staff left on site need better training. When the Swan was converted the guy on duty there didn't have a clue!
Overall I think it is a much better system but give it time before you all throw your toys out of the pram
Like any new system it will have start up problems....I regularly use Easton street in Wycombe, And find it much better that I only pay for the time I'm there and not have to guess then add a bit so I don't overstay. I have registered on line so do not have to find change etc. (AND before the usual crowd have their say this option will not suit everyone) Where I think it has failed is the advance information from WDC. A few days putting leaflets on cars might have helped. AND the staff left on site need better training. When the Swan was converted the guy on duty there didn't have a clue! Overall I think it is a much better system but give it time before you all throw your toys out of the pram busman2009
  • Score: 0

5:47pm Sun 10 Aug 14

Malc London says...

I had 40 mins to kill in Welwyn a while back and thought I'd do some shopping. They had brought in this system and once parked, I saw the queue of confused motorists. I immediately joined the queue, paid and got out and never returned.

The system is flawed and if it's the same one where you have to find the photo if your number plate, then I fear for the people using it.
I had 40 mins to kill in Welwyn a while back and thought I'd do some shopping. They had brought in this system and once parked, I saw the queue of confused motorists. I immediately joined the queue, paid and got out and never returned. The system is flawed and if it's the same one where you have to find the photo if your number plate, then I fear for the people using it. Malc London
  • Score: 5

9:21pm Sun 10 Aug 14

s6blr says...

The fecktards in Terror for Bucks should be sacked for this new system, I wonder who their luvvies are that are getting rich off it?

The old systems worked fine, so put them the heck back!
The fecktards in Terror for Bucks should be sacked for this new system, I wonder who their luvvies are that are getting rich off it? The old systems worked fine, so put them the heck back! s6blr
  • Score: 9

2:56am Mon 11 Aug 14

argonaut56 says...

Why are there problems at all beyond faulty machines?

Please tell me if I am way off here but if the cameras can record your number on entry why can't they do likewise on exit and display the charge at the barrier?
Why are there problems at all beyond faulty machines? Please tell me if I am way off here but if the cameras can record your number on entry why can't they do likewise on exit and display the charge at the barrier? argonaut56
  • Score: 0

6:31am Mon 11 Aug 14

gpn01 says...

argonaut56 wrote:
Why are there problems at all beyond faulty machines?

Please tell me if I am way off here but if the cameras can record your number on entry why can't they do likewise on exit and display the charge at the barrier?
Probably because there isn't a barrier?
[quote][p][bold]argonaut56[/bold] wrote: Why are there problems at all beyond faulty machines? Please tell me if I am way off here but if the cameras can record your number on entry why can't they do likewise on exit and display the charge at the barrier?[/p][/quote]Probably because there isn't a barrier? gpn01
  • Score: 0

6:31am Mon 11 Aug 14

gpn01 says...

argonaut56 wrote:
Why are there problems at all beyond faulty machines?

Please tell me if I am way off here but if the cameras can record your number on entry why can't they do likewise on exit and display the charge at the barrier?
Probably because there isn't a barrier?
[quote][p][bold]argonaut56[/bold] wrote: Why are there problems at all beyond faulty machines? Please tell me if I am way off here but if the cameras can record your number on entry why can't they do likewise on exit and display the charge at the barrier?[/p][/quote]Probably because there isn't a barrier? gpn01
  • Score: 1

6:35am Mon 11 Aug 14

argonaut56 says...

In which case substitute "exit" for "barrier" - my point is unchanged.
In which case substitute "exit" for "barrier" - my point is unchanged. argonaut56
  • Score: -4

8:23am Mon 11 Aug 14

gpn01 says...

argonaut56 wrote:
In which case substitute "exit" for "barrier" - my point is unchanged.
In which case can you expand on your point as it is unclear - rather like exactly where the entrances and exits are!
[quote][p][bold]argonaut56[/bold] wrote: In which case substitute "exit" for "barrier" - my point is unchanged.[/p][/quote]In which case can you expand on your point as it is unclear - rather like exactly where the entrances and exits are! gpn01
  • Score: 1

10:53am Mon 11 Aug 14

argonaut56 says...

For the purpose of clarity (and indeed I thought I had been crystal) I will reiterate.

If they have cameras to log the VRNs on entry I see no reason for them not to have them doing the same on exit, calculating the time of stay and fee due, displaying it on the screen so all the motorist has to do is pay the amount shown. I trust this eradicates any confusion my initial post may have caused.

As for entrances and exits I cannot comment as I am 6,000 miles away.
For the purpose of clarity (and indeed I thought I had been crystal) I will reiterate. If they have cameras to log the VRNs on entry I see no reason for them not to have them doing the same on exit, calculating the time of stay and fee due, displaying it on the screen so all the motorist has to do is pay the amount shown. I trust this eradicates any confusion my initial post may have caused. As for entrances and exits I cannot comment as I am 6,000 miles away. argonaut56
  • Score: 1

10:55am Mon 11 Aug 14

St1973 says...

busman2009 wrote:
Like any new system it will have start up problems....I regularly use Easton street in Wycombe, And find it much better that I only pay for the time I'm there and not have to guess then add a bit so I don't overstay. I have registered on line so do not have to find change etc. (AND before the usual crowd have their say this option will not suit everyone) Where I think it has failed is the advance information from WDC. A few days putting leaflets on cars might have helped. AND the staff left on site need better training. When the Swan was converted the guy on duty there didn't have a clue!
Overall I think it is a much better system but give it time before you all throw your toys out of the pram
Totally agree- Easton Street works perfectly..I often use it for Wycombe station and even at the busy times when the main trains from London come back, there are only a few people who queue and it moves very quickly.....Ok a couple of teething problems in Malrow, but that always happens......- surely its better to pay for the parking you use rather than pay too much because you get back to your car early...and really people it really isnt difficult.....It worries me that people actually need their hand held to use a parking machine, God knows how they actually get into their cars and drive them......In fact I am amazed scuh people can actually turn on their PC and post a comment!
[quote][p][bold]busman2009[/bold] wrote: Like any new system it will have start up problems....I regularly use Easton street in Wycombe, And find it much better that I only pay for the time I'm there and not have to guess then add a bit so I don't overstay. I have registered on line so do not have to find change etc. (AND before the usual crowd have their say this option will not suit everyone) Where I think it has failed is the advance information from WDC. A few days putting leaflets on cars might have helped. AND the staff left on site need better training. When the Swan was converted the guy on duty there didn't have a clue! Overall I think it is a much better system but give it time before you all throw your toys out of the pram[/p][/quote]Totally agree- Easton Street works perfectly..I often use it for Wycombe station and even at the busy times when the main trains from London come back, there are only a few people who queue and it moves very quickly.....Ok a couple of teething problems in Malrow, but that always happens......- surely its better to pay for the parking you use rather than pay too much because you get back to your car early...and really people it really isnt difficult.....It worries me that people actually need their hand held to use a parking machine, God knows how they actually get into their cars and drive them......In fact I am amazed scuh people can actually turn on their PC and post a comment! St1973
  • Score: -2

11:00am Mon 11 Aug 14

argonaut56 says...

I can't see anyone who has posted regarding this article as having said THEY couldn't use the system unaided and the only problems they have reported have been broken equipment and OTHER people encountering difficulties.
I can't see anyone who has posted regarding this article as having said THEY couldn't use the system unaided and the only problems they have reported have been broken equipment and OTHER people encountering difficulties. argonaut56
  • Score: -2

12:23pm Mon 11 Aug 14

gpn01 says...

argonaut56 wrote:
I can't see anyone who has posted regarding this article as having said THEY couldn't use the system unaided and the only problems they have reported have been broken equipment and OTHER people encountering difficulties.
That's because (a) we're interested in ensuring that everyone, irrespective of cognitive or intellectual ability, is able to use the system without it causing undue confusion or delay and (b) the problems we have experienced (myself included) were subject to a seperate news item, so no point repeating ourselves :-)

In a response to your other point where you acknowledge that you're 6000 miels away then the problem is that the payment stations are located in one place (middle of car park) whereas entrances and exits (which aren't clearly marked out anyway) are at each end of the car park. The car park(s) in question are quite small but are quite highly used. It would probably cause even more problems to therefore site pay station at the exit and would further add to delays if people then queued to pay on exit.
[quote][p][bold]argonaut56[/bold] wrote: I can't see anyone who has posted regarding this article as having said THEY couldn't use the system unaided and the only problems they have reported have been broken equipment and OTHER people encountering difficulties.[/p][/quote]That's because (a) we're interested in ensuring that everyone, irrespective of cognitive or intellectual ability, is able to use the system without it causing undue confusion or delay and (b) the problems we have experienced (myself included) were subject to a seperate news item, so no point repeating ourselves :-) In a response to your other point where you acknowledge that you're 6000 miels away then the problem is that the payment stations are located in one place (middle of car park) whereas entrances and exits (which aren't clearly marked out anyway) are at each end of the car park. The car park(s) in question are quite small but are quite highly used. It would probably cause even more problems to therefore site pay station at the exit and would further add to delays if people then queued to pay on exit. gpn01
  • Score: -3

2:02pm Mon 11 Aug 14

Mrs DaPoint says...

I think I'll buy a BMW.
Then I can park 3ft. from the kerb in the High Street or block an entrance, thus avoiding having to pay for parking at all and inconvenience everyone else at the same time.
I think I'll buy a BMW. Then I can park 3ft. from the kerb in the High Street or block an entrance, thus avoiding having to pay for parking at all and inconvenience everyone else at the same time. Mrs DaPoint
  • Score: 4

2:03pm Mon 11 Aug 14

argonaut56 says...

Well whilst I may be typing at a distance now, it has now always been so and I have used plenty of car parks (both little and well used) in the UK (admittedly with barriers for exit and entry) and have encountered nothing but minimal delays.

The type of site I refer to utilises a system whereby a ticket is taken on entry and when the motorist is ready to leave he or she goes to a centrally located machine which reads the ticket, calculates the fee and upon payment issues a plastic token which the driver pops into the exit barrier. No delays or confusion there. Sometimes what certain people regard as progress is anything but.

And who exactly are "we" to whom you refer? Are you one of the architects of this system?
Well whilst I may be typing at a distance now, it has now always been so and I have used plenty of car parks (both little and well used) in the UK (admittedly with barriers for exit and entry) and have encountered nothing but minimal delays. The type of site I refer to utilises a system whereby a ticket is taken on entry and when the motorist is ready to leave he or she goes to a centrally located machine which reads the ticket, calculates the fee and upon payment issues a plastic token which the driver pops into the exit barrier. No delays or confusion there. Sometimes what certain people regard as progress is anything but. And who exactly are "we" to whom you refer? Are you one of the architects of this system? argonaut56
  • Score: 0

5:56pm Mon 11 Aug 14

s6blr says...

The previous system was d4mn clear to use, except for the people who couldn't read.

0-1hr, 40p
1-2hr, £1
2-3hr, £1.50

So remind me why the h3ll we need this new mess?
The previous system was d4mn clear to use, except for the people who couldn't read. 0-1hr, 40p 1-2hr, £1 2-3hr, £1.50 So remind me why the h3ll we need this new mess? s6blr
  • Score: 3

6:32pm Mon 11 Aug 14

gpn01 says...

argonaut56 wrote:
Well whilst I may be typing at a distance now, it has now always been so and I have used plenty of car parks (both little and well used) in the UK (admittedly with barriers for exit and entry) and have encountered nothing but minimal delays.

The type of site I refer to utilises a system whereby a ticket is taken on entry and when the motorist is ready to leave he or she goes to a centrally located machine which reads the ticket, calculates the fee and upon payment issues a plastic token which the driver pops into the exit barrier. No delays or confusion there. Sometimes what certain people regard as progress is anything but.

And who exactly are "we" to whom you refer? Are you one of the architects of this system?
The "we" in my case is that of a fellow reader of the BFP article.

I agree that there are many ways of charging for the use of a car park. In this case it seems that WDC has chosen a complex, unreliable, one.
[quote][p][bold]argonaut56[/bold] wrote: Well whilst I may be typing at a distance now, it has now always been so and I have used plenty of car parks (both little and well used) in the UK (admittedly with barriers for exit and entry) and have encountered nothing but minimal delays. The type of site I refer to utilises a system whereby a ticket is taken on entry and when the motorist is ready to leave he or she goes to a centrally located machine which reads the ticket, calculates the fee and upon payment issues a plastic token which the driver pops into the exit barrier. No delays or confusion there. Sometimes what certain people regard as progress is anything but. And who exactly are "we" to whom you refer? Are you one of the architects of this system?[/p][/quote]The "we" in my case is that of a fellow reader of the BFP article. I agree that there are many ways of charging for the use of a car park. In this case it seems that WDC has chosen a complex, unreliable, one. gpn01
  • Score: 3

6:48pm Mon 11 Aug 14

argonaut56 says...

And now here we have a perfect example of how not being prosaic enough (however boring it may seem) can lead to incorrect assumptions!

I thought that A) you were defending the "if it ain't broke, fix it" mentality and B) you were one of those who did!

Yes there can be teething problems with new equipment but I seriously doubt those responsible factored in the possibility of people not only not knowing their VRN but also not knowing that they HAD to know it. The likes of the elderly (I'm not but I still get the occasional senior moment when trying to remember my mobile number), those in borrowed, hired or company pool vehicles - not to mention thieves!

All this change presumably to save on the cost of barriers and the electricity required to run them and maybe a little less paper and ink.
And now here we have a perfect example of how not being prosaic enough (however boring it may seem) can lead to incorrect assumptions! I thought that A) you were defending the "if it ain't broke, fix it" mentality and B) you were one of those who did! Yes there can be teething problems with new equipment but I seriously doubt those responsible factored in the possibility of people not only not knowing their VRN but also not knowing that they HAD to know it. The likes of the elderly (I'm not but I still get the occasional senior moment when trying to remember my mobile number), those in borrowed, hired or company pool vehicles - not to mention thieves! All this change presumably to save on the cost of barriers and the electricity required to run them and maybe a little less paper and ink. argonaut56
  • Score: -2

7:41pm Mon 11 Aug 14

gpn01 says...

argonaut56 wrote:
And now here we have a perfect example of how not being prosaic enough (however boring it may seem) can lead to incorrect assumptions!

I thought that A) you were defending the "if it ain't broke, fix it" mentality and B) you were one of those who did!

Yes there can be teething problems with new equipment but I seriously doubt those responsible factored in the possibility of people not only not knowing their VRN but also not knowing that they HAD to know it. The likes of the elderly (I'm not but I still get the occasional senior moment when trying to remember my mobile number), those in borrowed, hired or company pool vehicles - not to mention thieves!

All this change presumably to save on the cost of barriers and the electricity required to run them and maybe a little less paper and ink.
Ah, now you're beginning to understand one of the other concerns of those who use the car parks....Why has the system changed and why has thisparticular system been adopted. There weren't previously barriers (and there aren't now). The old system was simple (pay on arrival and display ticket). The new system involves ANPR, drivers having to remember their VRN (not as easy as it sounds) and a system that has already failed (as in 'out of order') several times.
[quote][p][bold]argonaut56[/bold] wrote: And now here we have a perfect example of how not being prosaic enough (however boring it may seem) can lead to incorrect assumptions! I thought that A) you were defending the "if it ain't broke, fix it" mentality and B) you were one of those who did! Yes there can be teething problems with new equipment but I seriously doubt those responsible factored in the possibility of people not only not knowing their VRN but also not knowing that they HAD to know it. The likes of the elderly (I'm not but I still get the occasional senior moment when trying to remember my mobile number), those in borrowed, hired or company pool vehicles - not to mention thieves! All this change presumably to save on the cost of barriers and the electricity required to run them and maybe a little less paper and ink.[/p][/quote]Ah, now you're beginning to understand one of the other concerns of those who use the car parks....Why has the system changed and why has thisparticular system been adopted. There weren't previously barriers (and there aren't now). The old system was simple (pay on arrival and display ticket). The new system involves ANPR, drivers having to remember their VRN (not as easy as it sounds) and a system that has already failed (as in 'out of order') several times. gpn01
  • Score: 3

7:59pm Mon 11 Aug 14

argonaut56 says...

Oh I understand perfectly - laying off the ticket inspectors to save money.

As I said earlier, the ticket followed by plastic token with barriers at both ends works well for much busier places but it seems that this little pocket of Utopia has grandiose Star Wars ideas with Fireball XL5 knowledge.
Oh I understand perfectly - laying off the ticket inspectors to save money. As I said earlier, the ticket followed by plastic token with barriers at both ends works well for much busier places but it seems that this little pocket of Utopia has grandiose Star Wars ideas with Fireball XL5 knowledge. argonaut56
  • Score: -1

11:23am Tue 12 Aug 14

marlowbucks says...

For info:

I emailed WDC Parking Services and asked:
Can you please advise me if, under the new ANPR system, there is an initial free parking period for, e.g., dropping off passengers at, say, Court Garden Leisure Centre and swimming pool?

I received the following reply:
There is no initial free period. There is a 10 minute grace period, so if you enter and exit within 10 minutes there will be no charge. This applies to all Wycombe District Council car parks that are operating the ANPR system. The only difference is that Pound Lane car park has a 15 minute grace period.
For info: I emailed WDC Parking Services and asked: Can you please advise me if, under the new ANPR system, there is an initial free parking period for, e.g., dropping off passengers at, say, Court Garden Leisure Centre and swimming pool? I received the following reply: There is no initial free period. There is a 10 minute grace period, so if you enter and exit within 10 minutes there will be no charge. This applies to all Wycombe District Council car parks that are operating the ANPR system. The only difference is that Pound Lane car park has a 15 minute grace period. marlowbucks
  • Score: -3

11:41am Tue 12 Aug 14

s6blr says...

So if the average WDC council pay is roughly £20-22,000 for staff, and the council is RAKING IN £3,500 / day for parking at the site, then that means (a) they can TRASH THIS NEW SYSTEM, (b) hire 100 wardens, and (c) bring back what was working quite well thank you very much.

Oh I must be sniffing glue again, I'm clearly hallucinating.
So if the average WDC council pay is roughly £20-22,000 for staff, and the council is RAKING IN £3,500 / day for parking at the site, then that means (a) they can TRASH THIS NEW SYSTEM, (b) hire 100 wardens, and (c) bring back what was working quite well thank you very much. Oh I must be sniffing glue again, I'm clearly hallucinating. s6blr
  • Score: 3

1:02pm Wed 20 Aug 14

stevend99 says...

WDC may have to cancel all tickets and refund all fines. See here: http://parking-prank
ster.blogspot.co.uk/
2014/08/wycombe-dist
rict-council-banned-
for.html
WDC may have to cancel all tickets and refund all fines. See here: http://parking-prank ster.blogspot.co.uk/ 2014/08/wycombe-dist rict-council-banned- for.html stevend99
  • Score: 0

1:34pm Wed 20 Aug 14

stevend99 says...

So long as it is a private car park, appeal against any ticket on the basis of; the charge i not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Quoting from parking prankster link:

The new regime tries to impose a charge on the motorist of £60 which will be 'issued for a breach of the terms and conditions.' As this is a breach, the charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss to the council. It is difficult to see how a loss of revenue of £1 for an hour's parking can cause a loss of £60.

Argued either in court, or to an appeals body; but due to the way WDC have implemented this, there is no appeals body.
So long as it is a private car park, appeal against any ticket on the basis of; the charge i not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. Quoting from parking prankster link: The new regime tries to impose a charge on the motorist of £60 which will be 'issued for a breach of the terms and conditions.' As this is a breach, the charge must be a genuine pre-estimate of loss to the council. It is difficult to see how a loss of revenue of £1 for an hour's parking can cause a loss of £60. Argued either in court, or to an appeals body; but due to the way WDC have implemented this, there is no appeals body. stevend99
  • Score: 0

1:38pm Wed 20 Aug 14

gpn01 says...

stevend99 wrote:
WDC may have to cancel all tickets and refund all fines. See here: http://parking-prank

ster.blogspot.co.uk/

2014/08/wycombe-dist

rict-council-banned-

for.html
Interesting blog. Curious about "The new regime tries to impose a charge on the motorist of £60 which will be 'issued for a breach of the terms and conditions.'".....I'
m no lawyer, but surely a breach of T&C's can only take place if there is proof that the motorist has accepted (and not rejected them) in the first place. On car parks which don't have entry barriers, nor clear signs at the entrance, how can you prove that a motorist has even seen the T&C's, let alone accepted them?
[quote][p][bold]stevend99[/bold] wrote: WDC may have to cancel all tickets and refund all fines. See here: http://parking-prank ster.blogspot.co.uk/ 2014/08/wycombe-dist rict-council-banned- for.html[/p][/quote]Interesting blog. Curious about "The new regime tries to impose a charge on the motorist of £60 which will be 'issued for a breach of the terms and conditions.'".....I' m no lawyer, but surely a breach of T&C's can only take place if there is proof that the motorist has accepted (and not rejected them) in the first place. On car parks which don't have entry barriers, nor clear signs at the entrance, how can you prove that a motorist has even seen the T&C's, let alone accepted them? gpn01
  • Score: 0

2:06pm Wed 20 Aug 14

argonaut56 says...

You may find that they will use the ignorance is no excuse clause. I am sure there must be signs somewhere clearly displayed, if not then they will lose.

I would be highly delighted but very surprised if anyone successfully used this defence.
You may find that they will use the ignorance is no excuse clause. I am sure there must be signs somewhere clearly displayed, if not then they will lose. I would be highly delighted but very surprised if anyone successfully used this defence. argonaut56
  • Score: 0

2:08pm Wed 20 Aug 14

stevend99 says...

EVERYONE TAKE NOTE: The important thing is; if you decide to appeal against a ticket in a private car park (which these now are), and irrespective of any other reason to appeal, you should always include 'the charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss'. It has been very successful in many cases regarding private car parks. I used it successfully in a recent popla appeal for a ticket received at the Wycombe Lido. More information on various websites.
EVERYONE TAKE NOTE: The important thing is; if you decide to appeal against a ticket in a private car park (which these now are), and irrespective of any other reason to appeal, you should always include 'the charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss'. It has been very successful in many cases regarding private car parks. I used it successfully in a recent popla appeal for a ticket received at the Wycombe Lido. More information on various websites. stevend99
  • Score: 0

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