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Services to go and jobs to be lost in Wycombe council cuts
9:30am Thursday 18th December 2008
Comments (68)HOLYWELL Mead outdoor swimming pool and historic Bassetsbury Manor could close in a series of shock cuts being considered by councillors.
Around 36 staff posts are also set to go, while Wycombe Museum may be relocated to reduce costs in the proposals being discussed by Wycombe District Council.
Meanwhile a major programme of improvements at Frogmoor, and the redevelopment of the fire station will be ‘frozen until the economy recovers’.
Wycombe District Council announced the proposals last night, blaming the credit crunch and worldwide recession.
The council says it needs to make savings in the region of £2million next year and a further £1m in 2010/2011.
“The council’s deficit has arisen due to a fall in major income sources such as land charges, property revenue and interest from investments,” the council statement said.
Senior councillors also blamed the ‘reduction’ in grants from central Government.
They said finances were also hit by the collapse of Icelandic bank Glitnir, in which Wycombe District Council had a £2.5 million investment.
“Whilst the council is determined to protect front line services, it anticipates that in the region of 36 staff posts will be lost by a combination of not filling vacant posts and some redundancies if the proposed savings are adopted,” the statement added.
“The job losses will be spread across the council and a process of consultation with staff and trade unions have begun.”
The cost-cutting follows a major three-month review of services.
“The bulk of the required savings will be through the reduction in staffing and changes in external contracts.
“WDC’s share of council tax is unlikely to rise significantly next year as the council is committed to ensure that rises are affordable and kept at or below inflation,” the council says, adding that the tax level will be decided in February.
Tory council leader Lesley Clarke said: “We are between a rock and a hard place with our budget.
“Our income is falling and costs rising due to recession and because the Government underfunds the programmes that we are expected to deliver.
“We are not prepared to increase the burden on the council taxpayer any more than is absolutely necessary, so we have no option other than look at how we can make savings.
“Unfortunately we are victims of the recession just like everyone else.”
But Liberal Democrats reacted with fury today. The party’s Wycombe Parliamentary Candidate Steve Guy said: “It has long been rumoured that the Conservatives running Wycombe District Council were planning a series of cuts to the grants provided to local organisations and community groups.
“However the cuts they are proposing are extremely severe and are much larger than even I could have imagined.
“Make no mistake these cuts will put at risk a number of local groups who rely on this funding to survive.
“Our Liberal Democrat group of councillors are currently studying the figures and will look for sensible solutions to this financial mess."
Mr Guy pledged to try to save Holywell Mead, which is situated on High Wycombe’s Rye.
He said: “The campaign to save Holywell Mead Open Air Swimming Pool starts today.
“This facility has been used by Wycombe families since its opening in 1957.
“It is loved by Wycombe residents who flock to the facility whenever the sun shines. I have spent many enjoyable summer days with my family at the pool.
“I want this facility to be around for my children to bring their families to in years to come. I will not let this pool close without a fight.
“I urge local councillors to think again and protect our jewel on The Rye.”
The proposed closure of Bassetsbury Manor, situated next to The Rye, could also spark controversy. It is set in beautiful grounds, complete with a bowling green and tennis courts, and is used by community groups for various events. It is also a prominent wedding venue.
The council today said the manor would not be sold but it would be closed to reduce the high running costs
"The bowling green will continue to operate," council spokesman Jeff Wilmore said.
The manor is owned by the council but operated by contractors Nexus.
The Tory-controlled council, however, pointed out that it is not alone in its plight.
“Councils across the country are facing tough spending decisions as they set their budgets – with 400 job losses at Peterborough council, 190 jobs lost at Coventry council, 50 jobs at Swindon and Oxford trying to fill a £5.7m spending gap – all announced within the last week,” the official council statement concluded.
See this site later today for updates and more reaction
Your Say YourBucks Free Press
chris toff, High wycombe says...
10:16am Thu 18 Dec 08
Catflap, Bucks says...
10:38am Thu 18 Dec 08
The Judge, High Wycombe says...
11:01am Thu 18 Dec 08
Listen up The Judge has spoken cut this hokum
Plus ça change..., Wycombe says...
12:28pm Thu 18 Dec 08
Wycombe should present its historical past more visibly than it does.
Not just by coming across better explanations when walking around the town but where there could be a focal point like the Roman villa or any other identified site or ruin, it should be more clearly presented and archeologically explained.
Alongside one of the Eden exits there is a chronology of Wycombe but it is a bit modest and to one side ....
There is much more to Wycombe's past.
Regular Poster, High Wycombe says...
12:29pm Thu 18 Dec 08
smiley cat, High Wycombe says...
1:04pm Thu 18 Dec 08
Regular Poster wrote:I am dead scared!!
The Judge has spoken *lol*. Nearly spat my lunchtime coffee out when I read that.
hehehe!
Bless..
Craig...., Coventry says...
1:23pm Thu 18 Dec 08
What an utter disgrace. That pool could have been raking money in if it was properly managed and actually open when the weather was good.
Once again the tax payer loses. Are those at the top of WDC still receiving Christmas bonuses? I'll wager they haven't had a pay cut either.
Too busy frittering money away on superfluous traffic lights, bus lanes, roundabouts, fountains, street furniture....not to mention rectifying previous WDC balls-ups.
Its about time this council considered who pays their wages.
towncryer, HIgh Wycombe town says...
1:26pm Thu 18 Dec 08
Lets spend some of the council reserves and protect services and Jobs
wayneo, bucks says...
1:44pm Thu 18 Dec 08
vocal local, bucks says...
2:04pm Thu 18 Dec 08
smiley cat wrote:me too - shaking in my boots!
Regular Poster wrote: The Judge has spoken *lol*. Nearly spat my lunchtime coffee out when I read that.I am dead scared!! hehehe! Bless..
wayneo, bucks says...
2:06pm Thu 18 Dec 08
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/233
1652.tree_plan_for_r
yes_border_with_a40/
"There would also be a review of "future options" for the outdoor swimming pool the plan states - but Cllr Green said closure was not an option."
Plus ça change..., Wycombe says...
2:09pm Thu 18 Dec 08
towncryer, HIgh Wycombe town says...
2:17pm Thu 18 Dec 08
J B Blackett, High Wycombe says...
2:43pm Thu 18 Dec 08
These people don't give a jot about Wycombe Town - they don't live here.
The sacred Wye was sacrificed on the altar of greed and philistinism ; only this council could do such a wanton thing
Give us our own Council run by Wycombe people !
Punchy, Wycombe says...
2:44pm Thu 18 Dec 08
It is illegal for WDC to sell the family silver in this way without consultation.
smiley cat, High Wycombe says...
2:44pm Thu 18 Dec 08
wayneo wrote:I think it would be great to excavate the villa. Much better than a grotty pool that no one uses - apart from, evidently "towncryer" who seems to think that the town would be missing somthing if the pool goes! Well I would rather my council tax money was used to promote something that could prove an asset to the town. It has been a long time since Holymead was an asset.
Which exit is that town Chronology Plus? I admit I haven't seen it. I think most of the history of Wycombe is around the Rye, ther's the old St Johns hospital opposite the rye, the old Mill, Wycombe Abbey School which was home to the eighth air force during the war; we seem to marvel on new buildings and not celebrating what we have got; whether the mead swimming pool is of any historical value I know not but it is losing a hell of alot of money and unfortunately we don't have the summers like we used to.
smiley cat, High Wycombe says...
2:47pm Thu 18 Dec 08
Punchy wrote:Well look at that - another offensive remark from the king of tact.
WDC is also selling our entire council housing stock to the private sector!!! They have only mentioned it to the illiterati (council tenants) not to the rest of Wycombe (you know, the ones that actually pay Council Tax). It is illegal for WDC to sell the family silver in this way without consultation.
I was raised on a council estate - I am not illiterate, and I pay council tax. I am sure there are a great many people out there like me who find your remarks to be both offensive and ignorant.
smiley cat, High Wycombe says...
2:49pm Thu 18 Dec 08
J B Blackett wrote:Do you use Holymead pool?
This Council has been hell-bent on destroying this historic town for years now - look at the monstrous ugly developments that surround the town . These people don't give a jot about Wycombe Town - they don't live here. The sacred Wye was sacrificed on the altar of greed and philistinism ; only this council could do such a wanton thing Give us our own Council run by Wycombe people !
Punchy, Wycombe says...
2:52pm Thu 18 Dec 08
You read, I read, let's meet up and pull each other off to celebrate!
smiley cat, High Wycombe says...
2:54pm Thu 18 Dec 08
Punchy wrote:PMSL"!!!!
Smiley, lose the chip. I was brought up on a council estate too. Yes, most of the people on the estate did find reading a challenge. You read, I read, let's meet up and pull each other off to celebrate!
Okay - truce as it is Christmas! xx
That did make me laugh !
J B Blackett, High Wycombe says...
4:26pm Thu 18 Dec 08
2:49pm Thu 18 Dec 08
J B Blackett wrote:
This Council has been hell-bent on destroying this historic town for years now - look at the monstrous ugly developments that surround the town . These people don't give a jot about Wycombe Town - they don't live here. The sacred Wye was sacrificed on the altar of greed and philistinism ; only this council could do such a wanton thing Give us our own Council run by Wycombe people !
Do you use Holymead pool?
I've have tried this year . On the 2 occasions I took the children , it was closed.
Steve Totteridge Hill, Totteridge Hill says...
5:14pm Thu 18 Dec 08
I think the powers that be have very short term memories and even shorter term goals.
Apt code words... dark-days!!!
towncryer, HIgh Wycombe town says...
5:54pm Thu 18 Dec 08
Steve Totteridge Hill wrote:Steve is right
Asides all that... Why not put a roof over it? I'm sure if the right technology was used to heat the water (solar heating panels) the pool would be a hit. I think the powers that be have very short term memories and even shorter term goals. Apt code words... dark-days!!!
lets put roof on the pool --- glass and sliding for summer outdoor use
would be a real winner for the Town and be usable all year.
Slacker, Flackwell says...
8:26pm Thu 18 Dec 08
That is your council tax which is paying for that loss, do you really want to have the council lose your council tax year after year?
Let's not get sentimental here, this is business and if something is losing money then there is no point in keeping it open just for the sake of a small minority of people.
We would be far better off having a centre that can be used all year around instead of only 13 weeks.
We already have a swimming pool that is successful, lets not lose money on flogging a dead horse.
I would love to see the Roman history unearthed in this town we have a lot of history here that should be shown. You never know, Ivor might find the washing machine he has long yearned for!
wayneo, bucks says...
10:23pm Thu 18 Dec 08
Judging from the pictues on SWOP, a substantial pice of the villan remains, including a mosaic fllor, walls, baths and other structures. Even if something was build around this structure (as a compromise), what a fantastic piece it could be. I'm sure the local archiologists would undertake the excavation for nowt too.
George1, Wycombe says...
10:33pm Thu 18 Dec 08
yog, says...
10:43pm Thu 18 Dec 08
What a load of old tosh!
I want a facility our children can use that encourages exercise, gets them off their computers, keeps them off the street and allows them to have fun in a safe environment. Conservatives still don't understand that not everything in life can be given a monetary value.
smiley cat, High Wycombe says...
11:10pm Thu 18 Dec 08
yog wrote:Not many polictians can
I am certainly not in favour of unearthing a load of old ruins. What a load of old tosh! I want a facility our children can use that encourages exercise, gets them off their computers, keeps them off the street and allows them to have fun in a safe environment. Conservatives still don't understand that not everything in life can be given a monetary value.
And there is no way that lib dems could organise a pee up in a brewery so stop dreaming!
yog, says...
12:27am Fri 19 Dec 08
wayneo, bucks says...
9:31am Fri 19 Dec 08
Although way off topic,personally, I think WDC although Conservative, are worlds apart from the likes at Bucks CC, it's not the Councillors who run the Council anyway, it's the lawyers and the faceless bureaucrats who beaver away behind the scenes, implementing central Government and European Dictat.
We are fooled into believing we are a democracy, we're not, public opinion counts for little nowadays. We are easily fooled i'm afraid:
For those who can be bothered, there are 4 programmes that show how we've all been hoodwinked:
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/bbcfour/documentari
es/features/century_
of_the_self.shtml
castlefield_oakridge, high wycombe says...
9:37am Fri 19 Dec 08
I personally believe that the cuts proposed are a reflection of the state of the country as a whole and not a reflection of WDC.
yog, says...
10:10am Fri 19 Dec 08
towncryer, HIgh Wycombe town says...
10:20am Fri 19 Dec 08
yog wrote:In Wycombe its a reflection of years of asset stripping and under investment in the Town of Wycombe by Tories
It is a reflection on years of Labour and Conservative rule.
They have refused to spend in tghe past and now refuse to dip into reserves to meet the needs of local residents and the town
time to go clarke, Wycombe says...
10:31am Fri 19 Dec 08
-They then look to lose services
-They then look to lose staff
-They then look to close landmark buildings like Bassetsbury manor,Holywell pool
-They then starve local groups of necessary grants
Why are they not dipping into the massive reserves they have been stashing in banks over past few years?
Why are they not increasing Council tax for those that can afford it and rebating back for those in need?
Why not?-- because they are Tories !!!!
Its paypack time and Cllr L Clarke and her Tory cronies need to start putting something back into the Town of Wycombe
wayneo, bucks says...
11:11am Fri 19 Dec 08
smiley cat, High Wycombe says...
11:22am Fri 19 Dec 08
*wanders away shaking head*
yog, says...
11:23am Fri 19 Dec 08
smiley cat, High Wycombe says...
11:38am Fri 19 Dec 08
yog wrote:I don't know how I feel about Euros - I used to be dead against them but now, well it would be easier!
Some of us do more than talking and yes bring on the Euro!
I would much rather be part of Europe than another state of America. People worry about us losing our identity if we become further integrated with Europe. I think we are rapidly losing our identity to the good old US of A!
yog, says...
12:19pm Fri 19 Dec 08
There is a lot wrong with Europe not least the farcical scenes when all the MEPs' move from one parliament to another but I would rather be in it as a 'critical friend' than ignored and left outside.
Anyway we have Euro elections next year so hopefully we can have a proper debate rather than the usual scare stories from ukip.
Craig...., Coventry says...
1:31pm Fri 19 Dec 08
Slacker wrote:£45,000 a year. Two things come to mind. Firstly, that is a drop in the ocean compared to some of the other ways WDC manage to vaporise tax payers sterling.
If it costs £45,000 a year to keep up and they only have 7,700 swims, to break even in the costs it would cost each swimmer £5.80 per session. That is your council tax which is paying for that loss, do you really want to have the council lose your council tax year after year? Let's not get sentimental here, this is business and if something is losing money then there is no point in keeping it open just for the sake of a small minority of people. We would be far better off having a centre that can be used all year around instead of only 13 weeks. We already have a swimming pool that is successful, lets not lose money on flogging a dead horse. I would love to see the Roman history unearthed in this town we have a lot of history here that should be shown. You never know, Ivor might find the washing machine he has long yearned for!
Secondly, I bet we could find a disposable post in the council to cut out that would easily yield £45,000.
This is not business, Slacker, it is the town, and its facilities. Thats the reason you pay council tax.
If the pool were properly managed and, god forbid, on the receiving end of some investment, it could become a thriving entity. Its just requires a bit of creative thinking.
What about an artifical ice rink in the winter (just the first idea thats popped into my head).
I for one have been using that pool for years, and would very much like to see it continue....even if it does use Slackers precious council-tax funds which are so well spent elsewhere.
I bet we could find a post in the council
Slacker, Flackwell says...
4:06pm Fri 19 Dec 08
It may be a town but it is also a business, no matter how much you gloss it over, something which is losing money does not make financial sense.
If it was some other facility that some here were not interested in, I am sure they would be crying for its closure so not to waste money. But because it is a pool that some of you use, people are taken over by emotions rather than realising the money could be better spent elsewhere.
The problem I see is that it costs too much to have it open for only 13 weeks of the year. What they need is a centre with a dual purpose that can be the pool for 13 weeks and maybe the ice rink in the winter.
Where exactly are the Roman ruins? Is there no way they can accomplish both?
yog, says...
4:14pm Fri 19 Dec 08
Slacker, Flackwell says...
4:29pm Fri 19 Dec 08
It's no different to Woolies closing down - a small minority of people use it and when it closes down there is an outcry at the loss of a great British institution. If it was that great they would not be in the position they are in now.
The same goes for the pool, if it was more popular and did not lose money then it would not be considered for closure.
If people want to find blame they should blame the public who are not using the service.
yog, says...
4:33pm Fri 19 Dec 08
I would also argue it is a required service.
Slacker, Flackwell says...
4:46pm Fri 19 Dec 08
There is no guarantee that any investment would increase the amount of customers and raise enough revenue to run the place. People need to show their support by actually using it. Without those customers it is just pointless.
I would have to argue against it being a required service. We already have a pool that has good facilities so it is not like they propose to take away the towns only pool.
yog, says...
5:14pm Fri 19 Dec 08
I want a facility our children can use that encourages exercise, gets them off their computers, keeps them off the street and allows them to have fun in a safe environment.
Handy X? No thanks reminds me too much of the awful swimming lessons at school. It is also for serious swimmers not those of us who want some fun in our drab lives!
Slacker, Flackwell says...
5:45pm Fri 19 Dec 08
I agree that people need a facility where their children (and the adults) can have fun in the Summer but how can they do that without making a big loss?
Does anybody know exactly where these alledged roman ruins are? Is there any way they could make it a visitor centre for the history and have the pool working alongside it for the 13 weeks? That way they would have visitors all year round and the loss from the pool would be gobbled up by the roman ruins.
yog, says...
6:02pm Fri 19 Dec 08
And this is in spite of no publicity and people going there only to find it closed.
Think of the bigger picture, The benefits to our childrens health, the fact they are not out on the streets causing mischief. You can not put a price on this. It is not all about money.
I am beginning to think local Conservatives are using the credit crunch as an excuse to cut funding for our public services.
They need to rethink this.
Slacker, Flackwell says...
6:30pm Fri 19 Dec 08
10,000 visitors is not enough to keep it going. Do the maths. If it is costing £45,000 to run and they are only getting 10,000 customers even at only £2 per swim it is costing them double what they are making.
Would all those people be happy to pay a minimum of £5 each to get in the pool to keep it going?
If the only reason to keep it open is for the benefit of childrens health and something for them to do, then it is not a good enough reason because there are already good facilities for children to use. If people choose not to use them that is their fault.
People go on about the council wasting money all the time but it seems some want to pick and choose which bits they waste money on.
yog, says...
7:33pm Fri 19 Dec 08
What is the betting the Conservative Councillors don't agree to this.
Slacker, Flackwell says...
7:50pm Fri 19 Dec 08
Even if they did take a pay cut (which they won't) what will happen next year to keep it running? Or the year after that?
There is only so long the public will accept the flogging of a dead horse and surely it is better to cut the losses now than to lose even more money later on down the road? When do we stop - when they are £100,000 in debt? At the current rate of losses assuming the pool charges £2 per head and assuming the number of visitors do not change, they would be in debt to the tune of £100,000 in only 5 years.
Is that really how we want to be spending vital public funds?
Now there is one thing I can think of to keep the pool alive. Its not just spending on a facelift but big spending on making it a covered FUN pool. Make the pool bigger and have two pools - one for the sun loungers and one for fun, have water tubes, wave machines and turn it into a fun complex - something totally different with a different type of customer to Handy Cross. I think that could be a winner. It would require an initial huge spend but I think having it as a fun pool like that could reap the rewards in the long term.
They could even get corporate sponsorship by having facilities of the pool sponsored by Speedo or Pepsi or whatever.
J B Blackett, High Wycombe says...
8:01pm Fri 19 Dec 08
yog, says...
8:17pm Fri 19 Dec 08
60 Councillors who get, what is the minimum now £4000?
If you think we get value for money from all of those 60 Councillors I suggest you come along to the next full council meeting and see for yourself what a useless bunch of back bench Conservative Councillors we have. I have been to about a dozen in the last few years and the same Councillors do not utter a single word they just pick up their allowance and go home.
The Conservatives used the same arguments when they wanted to close the libraries and the community stepped in and are now running them. Micklefield and West Wycombe libraries are an example of what can be achieved.
£2 is too cheap and a fiver sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Especially if they carry out the improvements you suggest.
That we can agree on!
Slacker, Flackwell says...
8:25pm Fri 19 Dec 08
I think £5 is way too much for the customer to bear especially if you have a family wanting to go.
BTW I am not Conservative, never voted for them and I hate many of the things that our council do and have done in the past. Wasting money on giant concrete balls in the high street springs to mind as one example. Turning off streetlights is another. They are a terrible council and have been for years.
Unfortunately when it comes to the outdoor pool, I sadly find myself agreeing with them. Unless they are prepared to spend huge to make it something big.
I would still like to know though if the pool can be accommodated alongside a Roman Ruin dig. Where the heck are these ruins?
yog, says...
8:39pm Fri 19 Dec 08
Slacker, Flackwell says...
8:42pm Fri 19 Dec 08
So if it is under the pool why don't they knock down the pool, dig out the roman ruins and create a pool out of the ruins?
That would be proper Roman Baths :-)
avq, downley says...
8:47pm Fri 19 Dec 08
yog, says...
9:07pm Fri 19 Dec 08
The trouble has always been that the Tories are able to get substantial funding from their few wealthy members and pay people to deliver their leaflets and to phone voters.
We do not have a level playing field in this country.
Slacker, Flackwell says...
9:58pm Fri 19 Dec 08
Steve Totteridge Hill, Totteridge Hill says...
12:18pm Sat 20 Dec 08
Slacker wrote:I do!
I don't know anyone that votes conservative - or at least nobody that admits it. :-/
Steve Guy, High Wycombe says...
12:58pm Sat 20 Dec 08
wayneo, bucks says...
3:00pm Sun 21 Dec 08
Personally, I would like to see more independants step forward as there is no party loyalty.
Lastly, as for the Rye, the Roman Ruins shold definately be unearthed and space made in High Wycombe for a fun pool.
yog, says...
4:27pm Sun 21 Dec 08
akm1312, Holtspur says...
9:03pm Sun 21 Dec 08
wayneo, bucks says...
10:38pm Sun 21 Dec 08
yog wrote:Highly opportunistic Yog, 5 out of ten for trying though; clearly unlike in 250AD, we are now able to prevent the invasion of our Country; regarding spending thousands, what would you rather do, pour money down the drain or invest it in something more worthwhile?
You are anti europe yet you want to spend thousands of British taxpayers money to show off the fact that we were invaded by a bunch of Europeans! Classic.
As for the 16 year old above, my preference is known however you have put your argument across very well indeed. Perphaps you might copy the above to the letters page.
yog, says...
1:08am Mon 22 Dec 08
As I have mentioned many times just because a service does not make a financial profit does not mean that there is no benefit to society.
Now, as it happens I think the pool can be made financially viable if it is converted to a fun pool with a roof or perhaps an ice rink in the winter. All it takes is for WDC to have a bit of imagination and the drive to make it a success.
wayneo, bucks says...
6:01pm Mon 22 Dec 08
As for your other points, I agree with "Just because a service does not make a financial profit, does not mean that there is no benefit to society", however a number of factors need to be examined in order to substantiate that reasoning; cost per capita against usage, viability , desirability and future tenability being just some; many of your ideas could bear fruit however I fear it is likely that the 'opportunity' concerning the current economic downturn, is likely to see disposal being the preferred and expedient option for the Council.
It is likely, that although built in 1957 to a 1930's design, the building could be suitable for listed status were one to register it.
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wayneo, bucks says...
10:01am Thu 18 Dec 08