Council boss: Holywell Mead, High Wycombe pool issue "shut" (From Bucks Free Press)
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Council boss: Holywell Mead, High Wycombe pool issue "shut"
6:47pm Monday 28th September 2009 in
A COUNCIL leader who led the closure of Holywell Mead outdoor swimming pool tonight said the matter is “shut” after being pressed by the opposition.
Conservative councillor Lesley Clarke stepped into a discussion between a finance boss and Liberal Democrat Trevor Snaith after Cllr Snaith raised the pool.
She said: “I think we have already made a decision on Holywell Mead pool.
“We took that decision in February this year. I know it’s hard for you to understand that but the decision has been to made to close it.
“We did not have the money to keep it open. I don’t know how many times I have to say that to yourself and the Bucks Free Press.”
She said: “I hope that that keeps the matter shut.”
At the time of closure the council said the pool was under-used.
Cllr Clarke spoke after Cllr Snaith, a strong opponent of the closure, asked about the council’s future plans for the site.
Cllr Roger Wilson, responsible for finance on the council, said there were not plans on the table to sell the facility.
And he warned the council would have to take some “very hard decisions” in future.
Cllr Clarke said the Government’s grant to the council could be cut by ten per cent and it would be “folly in the extreme” to overspend.
She said: “We are trying desperately to make sure everything works properly. We are trying to keep our frontline services going.”
The meeting was told the council’s investments fell in value from £62.6m at the start of the 2008/09 financial year to £58.8m at the end.
Investments include £2.5m locked in Icelandic bank Glitnir.
The council is also trying to sell nearby Bassetsbury Manor for more than £1m.
Last week TV presenter and Holmer Green resident Fern Britton called the pool closure "short sighted" (see link, below).
Comments(62)
lidopraiser
says...
7:22pm Mon 28 Sep 09
yog
says...
7:41pm Mon 28 Sep 09
The pool group are willing to work with WDC to secure a viable future for the pool, surely that is in everyones interests?
giant
says...
7:53pm Mon 28 Sep 09
I propose none of the elected councillors claim expenses for next five years. You guys are in it for public service.
Reduce number of elected officials. Do we really need all of you?
Downsize head count at WDC.
Monitor closely the costs related to tendering.
Reduce community cohesion programmes. Stop wasting money on the Muslim community. Muslims arrived in Wycombe decades ago not last year or year before that. Should the Muslim community need cohesion ask for collection amongst the well of in the community (they do it every Friday in the mosque), ask Muslims businesses to fund cohesion.
The most important money saving measure could be Wycombe becoming a unitary authority. To hell with Marlow and rural Buckinghamshire. I want my taxes spent on facilities in this town.
giant
says...
7:53pm Mon 28 Sep 09
I propose none of the elected councillors claim expenses for next five years. You guys are in it for public service.
Reduce number of elected officials. Do we really need all of you?
Downsize head count at WDC.
Monitor closely the costs related to tendering.
Reduce community cohesion programmes. Stop wasting money on the Muslim community. Muslims arrived in Wycombe decades ago not last year or year before that. Should the Muslim community need cohesion ask for collection amongst the well of in the community (they do it every Friday in the mosque), ask Muslims businesses to fund cohesion.
The most important money saving measure could be Wycombe becoming a unitary authority. To hell with Marlow and rural Buckinghamshire. I want my taxes spent on facilities in this town.
Marsh Crusader
says...
7:56pm Mon 28 Sep 09
J B Blackett
says...
8:01pm Mon 28 Sep 09
.
They are almost beyond description in their self-congratulatory twaddle that issues from their orifices. Playing their silly little political games !
.
It appears that not one of them on our side , I'm afraid. And we are nearly powerless be get rid of them
giant
says...
8:04pm Mon 28 Sep 09
giant
says...
8:05pm Mon 28 Sep 09
time to go clarke
says...
8:41pm Mon 28 Sep 09
no public consultation !!
You have loads of money in reserves!!
Time to go Clarke!!
rambler241
says...
9:02pm Mon 28 Sep 09
DeepThinker
says...
9:12pm Mon 28 Sep 09
weyfarer
says...
9:16pm Mon 28 Sep 09
Wycombe needs a town council- look at other examples such as Risborough where the council acting for the poeple is stepping in to try and save the British Legion and Molins Sports Club. The people will ultimately fund this through the local rates but democracy is alive and well in at least one corner of Wycombe District.
Holywell could be saved by Wycombe Town Council (if such a body existed).
J B Blackett
says...
9:50pm Mon 28 Sep 09
.
These people represent nobody but themselves and their 'little' pals and are wrecking Wycombe, its heritage , culture and history in pursuit of a weird alien incomprehensible game of their own.
.
They must be brought to book and that will only happen when we have a Town Council that defends Wycombe form malicious attacks by self-interest groups.
chris740
says...
9:50pm Mon 28 Sep 09
you are so blind, you cant see what you are doing to the town
demoness
says...
3:38am Tue 29 Sep 09
Odious woman.
Selling off the family china - that pool has been earmarked for a developer - put money on it!
Neil Bailey Save Holywell Mead Pool
says...
8:03am Tue 29 Sep 09
Our group has striven on a number of occasions to connect with the council and open a two way financial and operational discussion as a community group not as a bidding supplier.
I will re-iterate our previous offer - work with the council and community to re-open the pool - work with the council and community to mitigate sensible risks - create a long term community fund to support the pool for the future for the benefit of all of our community.
Regards
Neil Bailey
Chair - Holywell Mead Pool - Save Our Swim
poolfan#101
says...
8:29am Tue 29 Sep 09
Is it not this councils duty to do just that and represent us all?
The group who are trying to save this fantastic pool are an asset to our community. They are seeking to save a unique and potentially valuable facility and are trying to do so by mitigating any financial obligation of this council.
If this issue is annoying our esteemed council leader, as it clearly seems to be doing, why not simply let the Pool Group have the lease to the pool and let them turn it around. If it really is as much of a money pit as we are repeatedly told it is then why not just sit back and let the Group fail. Then our council can simply sit back and say "we told you so" and the whole excersise would have cost them nothing!
However allowing the Pool Group the opportunity to fail or (as is more likely) succeed our Council would be allowing some of their voting public the chance to become the sort of community enterprise that this sad and decaying town really needs.
weyfarer
says...
9:03am Tue 29 Sep 09
poolfan#101 wrote:Well said poolfan; however if you lived anywhere else in Buckinghamshire your local council would be forced to listen to you, unfortunately Wycombe town is the only unparished part of Bucks leaving you an anomoly without a local council to represent you. if you had a town council they could give the townspeople all the options available (at a cost of course). This is called local democracy.
I was under the impression that whichever party was voted in they were there to represent ALL of the people not just those that voted for them. Is it not this councils duty to do just that and represent us all? The group who are trying to save this fantastic pool are an asset to our community. They are seeking to save a unique and potentially valuable facility and are trying to do so by mitigating any financial obligation of this council. If this issue is annoying our esteemed council leader, as it clearly seems to be doing, why not simply let the Pool Group have the lease to the pool and let them turn it around. If it really is as much of a money pit as we are repeatedly told it is then why not just sit back and let the Group fail. Then our council can simply sit back and say "we told you so" and the whole excersise would have cost them nothing! However allowing the Pool Group the opportunity to fail or (as is more likely) succeed our Council would be allowing some of their voting public the chance to become the sort of community enterprise that this sad and decaying town really needs.
Plus ça change...
says...
9:06am Tue 29 Sep 09
Just one piece of mosaic, a couple of shards of pottery make a history.
poolfan#101
says...
9:09am Tue 29 Sep 09
I agree with the previous comment that there is some hidden plan for this site. The pool is closed, Bassetbury Manor is up for sale....it will be the closure of the tennis courts next and then what?
I for one do not want to see the area developed, it has a charm that is found nowhere else in this concrete ridden town. I want to be able to swim in the open air and listen to the trees russtle and the birds sing. What Council woldn't want that for their community?
weyfarer
says...
9:18am Tue 29 Sep 09
poolfan#101 wrote:What council wouldn't want that for their community? Quite simply one that is made up and run almost entirely by tories that don't live in Wycombe town and simply have little interest outside of their own communities.
Are our Council scared to put this to the public? Are they arfaid that they would have to do a massive U-turn in the face of public opposition to their plan? I agree with the previous comment that there is some hidden plan for this site. The pool is closed, Bassetbury Manor is up for sale....it will be the closure of the tennis courts next and then what? I for one do not want to see the area developed, it has a charm that is found nowhere else in this concrete ridden town. I want to be able to swim in the open air and listen to the trees russtle and the birds sing. What Council woldn't want that for their community?
yog
says...
9:58am Tue 29 Sep 09
weyfarer
says...
10:06am Tue 29 Sep 09
Wycombe Marsh Rebel
says...
11:09am Tue 29 Sep 09
Farmer Pickles
says...
11:17am Tue 29 Sep 09
To then justify closing the pool, selling Bassetsbury Manor and making other efficiency savings based on the current economic downturn makes no sense as we still have a large contingency fund for such circumstances, as it was only a very small proportion of it which was lost in an Icelandic Bank.
Surely during the last decade the district council's investments have been reaping massive returns which could now be used to get us through this downturn without having to raise taxes or make efficiency savings.
If a contingency fund is not actually going to be used when it is needed the only people to benefit from it is the people who are paid to manage it (not always very well in the case of Landsbanki).
demoness
says...
11:59am Tue 29 Sep 09
This is all about politics and these well meaning people are being used as pawns.
Imagine it - they persuade the council to keep the pool open - can't you just see what the Lib dems would make of it from a political point of view? They would use it as a major focus in their campaign.
All the pool is to them,is astick to beat the tories with which to me is just as contemptable as closing the pool is.
time to go clarke
says...
12:35pm Tue 29 Sep 09
demoness wrote:Lets remember the Tory's closed the pool !!
The reason that Ms clarke and her colleagues are ignoring the folk who want to save the pool is because the lib dems are using it as a political tool. Get the lib dems away from it - remove any connection to their site and then lets see what happens. This is all about politics and these well meaning people are being used as pawns. Imagine it - they persuade the council to keep the pool open - can't you just see what the Lib dems would make of it from a political point of view? They would use it as a major focus in their campaign. All the pool is to them,is astick to beat the tories with which to me is just as contemptable as closing the pool is.
There are some Tory's that want to save pool but are afraid to speak out against the Tory line. Ask local Tory councillor their personal position on the pool !!!
Its an issue that WDC mainstream Torys put self interest and cuts first and refuse to accept what local people want.
tom.marlow
says...
12:38pm Tue 29 Sep 09
demoness wrote:So they should give up their campaign in order to keep the LibDems out ?
The reason that Ms clarke and her colleagues are ignoring the folk who want to save the pool is because the lib dems are using it as a political tool. Get the lib dems away from it - remove any connection to their site and then lets see what happens. This is all about politics and these well meaning people are being used as pawns. Imagine it - they persuade the council to keep the pool open - can't you just see what the Lib dems would make of it from a political point of view? They would use it as a major focus in their campaign. All the pool is to them,is astick to beat the tories with which to me is just as contemptable as closing the pool is.
.
What exactly will that acheive?
yog
says...
1:03pm Tue 29 Sep 09
The Lib Dems are the official opposition on the council. Of course they are going to oppose the closure of community facilities!!!!
I cannot believe how some people (well one!) seem to have such difficulty understanding the basic job of an opposition i.e. to hold the ruling party to account.
Save Wycombe
says...
3:14pm Tue 29 Sep 09
they might just be successful!
yog
says...
3:25pm Tue 29 Sep 09
Yet chairman Neil Bailey (above) has again repeated the call for the Council to engage with the group and work together to ensure the pool has a viable future.
There is only so many times you can offer the hand of friendship.
I know the truth
says...
3:48pm Tue 29 Sep 09
demoness
says...
3:48pm Tue 29 Sep 09
yog wrote:Holding the party to account is one thing and yes I agree they should.
If the Conservatives wanted to save the pool they wouldn't have closed it in the first place!!!! The Lib Dems are the official opposition on the council. Of course they are going to oppose the closure of community facilities!!!! I cannot believe how some people (well one!) seem to have such difficulty understanding the basic job of an opposition i.e. to hold the ruling party to account.
BUT using an emotive subject such as the pool is something else.
Oh I know that no one else agrees with me on here but I have as much contempt ( if not more) for the lib dems as I have for any of the parties.
More so for the lib dems because they hide their ambitions "for the good of the community".
Oh and BTW Yog - whats it got to do with you anyway - you live in Brighton?
tom.marlow
says...
4:01pm Tue 29 Sep 09
yog
says...
4:08pm Tue 29 Sep 09
I suggest you go back to stalking Ivor, more your level!
Gordina Brown
says...
4:18pm Tue 29 Sep 09
demoness
says...
4:27pm Tue 29 Sep 09
tom.marlow wrote:Tricky one Tom.... I'll get back to you. ;)
How does your contempt for the Lib Dems compare with your contempt for Marlow? More ? Less? the same ?
demoness
says...
4:30pm Tue 29 Sep 09
yog wrote:Oh Yog - you Bi atch.. lol.
So the Lib Dems can hold the ruling party to account as long as it is not an emotive subject?????? I suggest you go back to stalking Ivor, more your level!
No that's not what I said. The Lib dems set up a website that pool supporters could join . My point is that they should not have done that.
By all means show support BUT do not get directly involved .
OMG - if you think I am stalking Ivor, does that mean you are stalking me stalking Ivor??
*is scared...*
yog
says...
4:32pm Tue 29 Sep 09
At the last annual budget setting meeting the Liberal Democrat Councillors proposed using a 'pot of money' that was indeed sat in a bank account doing bugger all.
The Lib Dems proposed using some of this to reopen the pool and to keep the Council tax increase down. Yet Conservative Councillors voted against this measure and instead broke their election promise.
Interesting that despite the Conservatives saying they couldn't use the money guess which pot of money the Conservatives are now dipping into? The very same pot of money!
Gordina Brown
says...
5:05pm Tue 29 Sep 09
yog wrote:"If" this is true Yog, then why is it not front page news??
Interesting that you mention a secret pot of money because there was one! At the last annual budget setting meeting the Liberal Democrat Councillors proposed using a 'pot of money' that was indeed sat in a bank account doing bugger all. The Lib Dems proposed using some of this to reopen the pool and to keep the Council tax increase down. Yet Conservative Councillors voted against this measure and instead broke their election promise. Interesting that despite the Conservatives saying they couldn't use the money guess which pot of money the Conservatives are now dipping into? The very same pot of money!
yog
says...
5:19pm Tue 29 Sep 09
time to go clarke
says...
6:16pm Tue 29 Sep 09
yog wrote:Come to Full Council meeting on 5th at 6.30pm
Ok fair enough will take up that challenge!
Public welcome -- i will be in public gallery
Pool questions will be asked !!!
Hear yet again how Tory's continue to disregard public opinion
bexs60
says...
6:43pm Tue 29 Sep 09
I recently visited family in Lincolnshire and discovered that besides having a local open air swimming pool, those under 16 yrs of age and over 60 yrs of age could actually swim FREE OF CHARGE under a new government backed scheme!
On my return to Wycombe I contacted various swimming pools in the area to ask them if they were taking part in this scheme and the nearest ones I could find were Aylesbury and Amersham, so I contacted Wycombe District Council and spoke to the gentleman incharge of sports and entertainment for Wycombe. His response was interesting to say the least.
He said " this is a governement backed scheme for the under 16's and over 60's and while we received a grant from the government for this purpose it was not sufficient money and we couldnt raise the extra money needed to put it in place"
Can you believe that! So not only do they close a pool that everybody is willing to pay to visit but when they are given money by the government to encourage people to swim that wont cost the majority of them anything they do nothing about them because the money was insufficient, bet they didnt hand back the grant they were given towards it though?
What is going on with this Council, they shut down Swimming Pools, refuse to fund government backed projects when they are given part payment anyway and even agree to pay for partial repairs to bridges in bloody Maidenhead which is in Berkshire not Buckinghamshire!
God it makes me spit!
baggs
says...
7:03pm Tue 29 Sep 09
J B Blackett
says...
8:11pm Tue 29 Sep 09
.
It would appear from most of the comments above , there would appear to be mainly two distinct opinions about this pool decision by the (our ?) 'councillors' at WDC.
.
1. First option
They are nearly all raving bonkers and are simultaneously inept incompetents that haven't got a clue about anything and are just playing silly petty pathetic political games with public facilities.
.
OR 2.
They are colluding / plotting / conniving together involving a secretive hidden agenda to dispose of a public asset (hidden from the public ) to suit their own party / gang /personal schemes - definitely not in our interests.
.
I know what I think. What do you think ?
. Regards
timmyo
says...
9:44pm Tue 29 Sep 09
If they'd been getting the half a million extra quid a year they should have been, there would have been no need to close the pool.
If they get the rent increase, why don't we ask for it to be used to keep the pool open?
George1
says...
10:27pm Tue 29 Sep 09
IT WAS FEBRUARY 2009 and the pool an OPEN AIR one.
How many times do we have to call for LESLEY CLARKE'S RESIGNATION?
BRITAIN'S RICHEST COUNCIL IS FAILING THOSE OF US PAYING FOR THE TORIES INCOMPETENCE.
TheInsider
says...
10:48pm Tue 29 Sep 09
Now we are in recession, councils all over the UK are selling off facilities and land which is the property of the residents.
Money "made" during boom times and sitting in reserves should be used to keep these facilities open during the rainy days we are experiencing. Land can be rented, properties rented, and facilities tendered. Closing and selling off the UK's heritage to investors (some of which are investment companies from overseas) is a national disgrace. Huge swathes of London are now owned by overseas companies and heads of state.
There are councils all over the UK, selling off and closing down facilities and using the excuse of the recession to do so.
Once they are gone they never come back. Residents all over the UK must stop this national sell-off and closure scandal which is being carried out by many different parties at local level.
J B Blackett
says...
12:18am Wed 30 Sep 09
.
Does anyone out there know ? Is there a prospective LD candidate for WYCOMBE in the offing , who is also currently resident in BRIGHTON ?
.
Just curious that's all !
demoness
says...
6:45am Wed 30 Sep 09
J B Blackett wrote:Thank you JB.
Why are these people from BRIGHTON (yog , The Insider etc) so interested in WYCOMBE affairs and voicing their opinions on very local matters ? . Does anyone out there know ? Is there a prospective LD candidate for WYCOMBE in the offing , who is also currently resident in BRIGHTON ? . Just curious that's all !
I have been villified on here for daring to critisise the lib dem's motives.They like to see themselves as the "fluffy bunny" party who only thinks of the community. I see them as a group of desperate wannabee politicians who will do anything to get into power.
I don't understand why people who live in Brighton are so interested in what goes on in Wycombe - and it has never been explained to me. :(
bexs60
says...
7:25am Wed 30 Sep 09
I spent a few years living elsewhere and kept up to date with daily goings on in Buckinghamshire because it is where I am from and it interests me!
Just a thought ............
weyfarer
says...
8:39am Wed 30 Sep 09
Looks like an interesting meeting at WDC coming up, how will Clarke & Co dodge this one?
time to go clarke
says...
9:15am Wed 30 Sep 09
weyfarer wrote:Public invited to Full Council on 5th of October at 6.30pm in Council Chamber. Ill be in Public Gallery.
I'll say it again shall I; You voted them in, you reap what you sow I am afraid. Vote yourselves a town council and they will be able to bow to public pressure and save the thing. If you lot put as much energy into that as you have writing blogs on here Holywell will be saved. Looks like an interesting meeting at WDC coming up, how will Clarke & Co dodge this one?
Will be a few pool questions!
Join me and discover the arrogance of the Tory Councillors who wont listen to public opinion
demoness
says...
9:33am Wed 30 Sep 09
bexs60 wrote:Fair comment Bex but I think that there is more too it than that. Yog only EVER comments wheh he or she can make a snide remark about the council or big up the lib dems..
Ever thought people in Brighton might actually hail from Wycombe and like to keep themselves in the loop? I spent a few years living elsewhere and kept up to date with daily goings on in Buckinghamshire because it is where I am from and it interests me! Just a thought ............
TheInsider
says...
9:41am Wed 30 Sep 09
Sport and health provision should not be reliant on your postcode.
Please feel free to Google the King Alfred Leisure Centre, Brighton, to see a similar situation in Brighton, where the only pool/health centre in the city is not being repaired/lost an investor for re-development.
Remember many of Britain's best athletes, Olympians and footballers have started their careers in ordinary council run centres. Once they are lost, they are lost forever.
bexs60
says...
10:37am Wed 30 Sep 09
Wycombe were given the funding for the free swimming scheme, but I was informed that the money was insufficient to put the scheme in place, and when I asked if the money had been handed to back to where it came from, the subject was quickly avoided and changed!
J B Blackett
says...
2:00pm Wed 30 Sep 09
bexs60 wrote:OK bexs60 , I do understand what you are saying and fully concur.
Ever thought people in Brighton might actually hail from Wycombe and like to keep themselves in the loop?
I spent a few years living elsewhere and kept up to date with daily goings on in Buckinghamshire because it is where I am from and it interests me!
Just a thought ............
,
And even more - to substantiate what you said , the reason I am curious is because several generations of my family were born and bred in in various parts of Brighton.
.
In fact when my earlier ancestors were there it was not called Brighton. It was initially called Brighthelm (Saxon name) then Brighthelmstone (as on my ancestors birth certificates) and finally Brighton after the Prince Regent made it 'fashionable'.
.
So I was intrigued to know why folk from Brighton were interested in Wycombe affairs , when in my particular case the reverse is true.
.
I have looked into Brighton's history in pursuit of my family's history, but are not totally up-to-date with sports facilities and council affairs (it does have a strong Green Party presence).
.
I also have learned (this surprised me at first) that Brighton has some of the most deprived areas in the whole of England and lots of social problems - the least of these is probably open-air swimming pools, I think.
.
Regards
J B Blackett
says...
2:42pm Wed 30 Sep 09
demoness wrote:Sorry , demoness, but if you read my post above, you will see my motives for querying the 'Brighton Gang's' comments was for historical / familial reasons .
bexs60 wrote:Fair comment Bex but I think that there is more too it than that. Yog only EVER comments wheh he or she can make a snide remark about the council or big up the lib dems..
Ever thought people in Brighton might actually hail from Wycombe and like to keep themselves in the loop? I spent a few years living elsewhere and kept up to date with daily goings on in Buckinghamshire because it is where I am from and it interests me! Just a thought ............
.
Not for the political motives you thought might be behind those comments.
.
However you may glad (or sad) to learn that Brighton Council unlike Wycombe was until recently in a No Overall Control (NOC) situation. Mostly Tory but with a strong Labour and Green Party presence.
.
You may also be glad to learn that there were only 2 Lib Dem members .
The main point is that Brighton has not got what Wycombe has - a vast overwhelming Conservative majority which can and does bulldoze any project or decision they want through their powerful party machine.
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This is not what I want from our democratic system - the WD council members just ignore the folk of Wycombe who they now consider as mere vote-fodder.
.
Brighton certainly has lots of problems, but not this one.
.
Regards to you and yours
weyfarer
says...
8:33pm Wed 30 Sep 09
time to go clarke wrote:I will try to attend if possible. I hope in your response to their arrogant answers you will inform them that Wycombe would be far better served by a town council. Could it be that the reason WDC Tories are so against a town council is that it would be mainly made up of town members- probably Labour and Lib-Dem for the most part meaning they won't control it... Call me an old cynic, hmmm...
weyfarer wrote: I'll say it again shall I; You voted them in, you reap what you sow I am afraid. Vote yourselves a town council and they will be able to bow to public pressure and save the thing. If you lot put as much energy into that as you have writing blogs on here Holywell will be saved. Looks like an interesting meeting at WDC coming up, how will Clarke & Co dodge this one?Public invited to Full Council on 5th of October at 6.30pm in Council Chamber. Ill be in Public Gallery. Will be a few pool questions! Join me and discover the arrogance of the Tory Councillors who wont listen to public opinion
Neil Bailey Save Holywell Mead Pool
says...
11:16am Thu 1 Oct 09
Thank you for your continuing support and healthy debate. For all members of our local community please come and meet the pool group on Tuesday 13th October at the Environment Centre at 7:30 - 9:30 pm. We will be available to discuss the excellent opportunities that the pool and it's facilities potentially presents to the Wycombe Community - for those who expressed interest in the Brighton link there is an interesting organisation called the Brighton Swim Centre that is one of the largest lifesaving and swimming teacher training centres in the country. It would be delightful to see Wycombe develop it's own version of this to skill up many of the people in our community for new careers and new hope.
Regards Neil Bailey
Chair
Holywell Mead Pool - Save Our Swim
Novacool88
says...
1:58am Sun 4 Oct 09
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Council boss: pool issue "shut"
Cllr Lesley Clarke
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J B Blackett says...
7:08pm Mon 28 Sep 09