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Wycombe sinks to a new low (From Bucks Free Press)
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Wycombe sinks to a new low
4:03am Sunday 22nd November 2009
Last Thursday the Christmas lights were switched on in Wycombe town centre.
It should have been a happy evening with families enjoying the festive illuminations however around 9pm violence broke out in the town centre and police had to step in to restore law and order.
According to reports eggs and bottles were thrown, a police van was damaged and a window in a restaurant was broken.
This must surely be one of the most shameful things to happen in the history of our town.
What does this episode say about our town?
The shenanigans come as no surprise to me indeed I personally stay away from the town centre in the evenings because of the fear of yobbos carrying out acts of mindless violence.
So was this example of anti-social behaviour a one off?
Well even on my lunchtime walks around the town centre I often see the wannabe ASBO brigade practising their skills.
Only this week I was walking down White Hart Street when a man (who appeared drunk) staggered past me swearing for all to hear. His language was so bad I had to cover my ears as he went past.
Further down White Hart Street a vagrant sitting by the street begging started calling out to two young school girls as they passed by. The school girls looked quite worried.
In Church Street I was nearly knocked down by several rascals speeding around on bicycles.
It seems there were plenty of yobs in the town up to mischief but I never saw a single policeman walking around on patrol.
Come to think of it I can't remember the last time I saw a policeman on patrol in the town centre which is amazing as the police station is only a short distance away.
Wycombe has an extensive CCTV system so surely the goings on can be seen in the control room. If so why is nothing being done about them? Is anybody looking at the cameras to see what is happening?
As far as I can see CCTV is useless. The images usually seem to be blurred and the faces of the offenders are pixelated rendering them useless.
Surely it’s time something was done about the unacceptable behaviour taking place in the town centre. Until that happens I fear things will not get better.
Sadly it seems Wycombe is being left to the mercy of the element intent on causing trouble while the decent law abiding citizens have to suffer.
Our town needs a visible deterrent on the streets to make the yobs think twice before starting trouble.
What do you think?
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Your Say YourBucks
Melanie1, Amersham says...
1:34pm Sun 22 Nov 09
1) Did you offer any assistance to the schoolgirls in White Hart Street? 2) Or did you just make a mental note to write about it in your blog?
.
As an aside you must be one of the very rare minority that calls McDonalds a restaurant!
Madders, L.E.V.I. says...
1:41pm Sun 22 Nov 09
LOLoutloud, Bourne End says...
2:13pm Sun 22 Nov 09
The Hindu/Sikh populations of our town never cause any problems, and are fine members of our society bringing excellent work ethic and respectful values.
The Muslim population has no interest in this, and wants to stick its head in the sand to its backward religion. If you don't like living in a modern country, go back to where you came from.
demoness, Hades says...
2:28pm Sun 22 Nov 09
LOLoutloud wrote:I know, lets all make sweeping generalisations cos that always helps.
The police need to stop tip-toeing around the muslim population and start dealing with their racist attitudes to the white english christain majority. The Hindu/Sikh populations of our town never cause any problems, and are fine members of our society bringing excellent work ethic and respectful values. The Muslim population has no interest in this, and wants to stick its head in the sand to its backward religion. If you don't like living in a modern country, go back to where you came from.
Oh and BTW I am white and English but not a christian - OMG does that mean come the glorious day I will be shot with the infidel?
Hit me, HARD! says...
3:22pm Sun 22 Nov 09
..on the grounds that we now know better, and that it causes more problems than alcohol, drugs and everything else put together!
michael healy, high wycombe says...
3:50pm Sun 22 Nov 09
What is lacking is RESPECT! of English culture on English soil.
Michael Healy- The Kebab Man-
Princes Risborough
WWW>Kebabs4u.co.uk
ivor, says...
4:23pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
You are quite correct in saying that I have not been to any other major towns or cities recently.
~
As you saying that trouble after switching on the Christmas lights is a common occurrence and is to be expected?
~
Is anti-social behaviour completely out of control in the country?
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
4:24pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
Maybe the families would have gone but the yobbo element was probably there when then lights were switched on and mingled with the families.
~
Would you be happy to be in attendance at an event where hooligans are also present?
~
It seems there are an awful lot of people misbehaving in out town centre. Lots of the misbehaviour may be minor but it is there all the same. Of course people will misbehave while there is no visible deterrent….
~
Regarding the school girls I did slow down and watched to make sure they walked past (and away) from the vagrant safely. Of course I would have stepped in if necessary.
~
I have never been inside so as it sells food it must be a restaurant. If it isn’t a restaurant what is it?
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
4:24pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
Well, there are obviously still problems in the town centre. I guess there must be failures somewhere.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
4:24pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
There doesn’t seem to be a police presence in the town centre fill stop irrespective of who may be causing the trouble.
ivor, says...
4:24pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
With the failure of the churches to move with modern times I think there are a lot of people who are no longer interested in religion. In my experience those who do not practice a religion are not worse than those who do.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
4:24pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
Don’t forget fast food on you list of problem items. As we have discovered recently a hot dog is more dangers than alcohol….
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
4:25pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
Yes, as you say the CCTV system needs to be used to identify trouble and stamp it out before it starts. I wonder if there is actually anyone looking at the screens?
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
demoness, Hades says...
4:32pm Sun 22 Nov 09
ivor wrote:Ivor - that is a very perceptive post. I also think that people are fed up with the double standards that most religions practice.
Re the comments of demoness at 2:28pm ~ With the failure of the churches to move with modern times I think there are a lot of people who are no longer interested in religion. In my experience those who do not practice a religion are not worse than those who do. ~ Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
4:40pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
Yes, I agree with you about you double standards comment.
~
I may well do a special blog on the effects of religion in our society today.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
Voyeur, HW says...
5:08pm Sun 22 Nov 09
.
There were two police vans in the town square at about 6.00pm with police dogs in them.
.
It seemed strange to me at the time, but seeing what happened in Wycombe, it seems that the Bedford Police were much better prepared.
J B Blackett, High Wycombe says...
5:19pm Sun 22 Nov 09
Melanie1 wrote:You make several good points, Melanie.
Whilst I agree with some of your comments, in all likelihood the families with young children would have been long gone by 9pm and would not have known of any problems until it was reported in the paper. It's a sad fact of life that young men (and occasionally women) will misbehave but there is no point writing about it in a blog, that is not the solution. The solution is for the law abiding public to report any anti-social behaviour. To that end:
1) Did you offer any assistance to the schoolgirls in White Hart Street? 2) Or did you just make a mental note to write about it in your blog?
.
As an aside you must be one of the very rare minority that calls McDonalds a restaurant!
.
But I have signed on briefly just to say this - that IMHO , the BFP initially reported this incident in what appeared to me to be in a rather ambiguous if not inaccurate and possibly unhelpful fashion.
.
Lazy reporting will not sell newspapers in the long term although some people allegedly still buy the 'Sunday Sport' and other types of made-up journalese.
.
Let's have full properly researched stories, BFP, otherwise folk will not trust your other news stories.
.
The consequences may be that some people start filling in gaps left by the missing information with conjecture, rumour and even prejudices. I am guilty of this myself , I'm afraid especially when I read / hear things about politicians etc.
.
No offence intended to any indivual BFP person , of course.
.
Thank and Goodbye
ivor, says...
5:38pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
Obviously the Bedford Police believe in creating a show of force to deter the yobbos and reassure the decent people.
~
Of course to put on such a display requires forethought, co-ordination, planning and for the police to want to combat crime.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
5:38pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
I don’t think we should be criticising the reporting of the news instead we should be criticising the yobbos who ruined a family evening and brought shame on our town.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
Oliver Newbury, says...
6:12pm Sun 22 Nov 09
ivor wrote:As you "discovered", not we.
Re the comments of Hit me at 3:22pm
~
Don’t forget fast food on you list of problem items. As we have discovered recently a hot dog is more dangers than alcohol….
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
-
McDonalds is a fast food restaurant- any man of the world would know that.
J B Blackett, High Wycombe says...
6:15pm Sun 22 Nov 09
.
Do you accept at face value everything always you see in the press ? Don't answer that - it is a rhetorical question.
.
Goodbye
ivor, says...
6:48pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
Does it really matter if I use a we instead of a I?
~
Indeed I described it as a restaurant.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
6:48pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
Yes, I happen to think the BFP is a reliable paper. True there are some out there who make stories up but not in this case. How else did the window get broken?
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
fishyfingers, wycombe says...
6:55pm Sun 22 Nov 09
i dont feel there is a yobbo element in town at night as i walk through town at night and early morning and encounter no problems and dont feel threatened. there is more of a yobbo element during the day when schools are finished for the day and when the drunks have not yet passed out
ivor, says...
6:59pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
I shall take that tip on board and avoid making the same mistake myself. I have never been in although I thought it was a proper restaurant, well, it looks like the ones in the complex….
~
Yes, I agree about the yobbo element being there in the day time. It’s about time something was done about them.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
Oliver Newbury, says...
7:32pm Sun 22 Nov 09
-
Since McDonald's are all over Europe and America, they also allow affordable meals when on holiday for those who cannot afford to eat in fancy restaurants every day.
-
They don't just sell burgers either.
-
And no, I don't work there.
demoness, Hades says...
7:44pm Sun 22 Nov 09
ivor wrote:Please can you further elaborate on how Macdonalds looks like the restaurants in Eden.
Re the comments of fishyfingers at 6:55pm ~ I shall take that tip on board and avoid making the same mistake myself. I have never been in although I thought it was a proper restaurant, well, it looks like the ones in the complex…. ~ Yes, I agree about the yobbo element being there in the day time. It’s about time something was done about them. ~ Thank you for your valued comment.
I am truly curious and a more cynical person might suggest that you are being rather spiteful.
Plus ça change..., Wycombe says...
7:45pm Sun 22 Nov 09
No, but the blogging is.
ivor, says...
9:23pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
Then it looks like they are providing a good service to the community.
~
They have certainly made a stay of it in the town as they have been there ever since the Co-Op closed years ago. Now it is one of the longest stops to have been in the High Street.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
9:23pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
I don’t think you want to hear do you?
~
Well, I will tell you any way.
~
It seems the restaurants of today are all designed the same and every one has a large window where you can see the customers eating inside. Sadly there is no privacy any more indeed I always look through the window while passing by to see who is in there.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
9:24pm Sun 22 Nov 09
~
Oh dear. Are you voicing your disapproval with my blog then?
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
demoness, Hades says...
11:32pm Sun 22 Nov 09
ivor wrote:Please give examples of how restaurants of yesteryear were different.
Re the comments of demoness at 7:44pm ~ I don’t think you want to hear do you? ~ Well, I will tell you any way. ~ It seems the restaurants of today are all designed the same and every one has a large window where you can see the customers eating inside. Sadly there is no privacy any more indeed I always look through the window while passing by to see who is in there. ~ Thank you for your valued comment.
I think they have always had large windows....
Lorrainej, High Wycombe says...
2:06am Mon 23 Nov 09
ivor, says...
3:27am Mon 23 Nov 09
~
Indeed restaurants have always had large windows however in years gone by in my experience the customers were not seated in front of the windows on display as exhibits while they ate their food.
~
All those years ago maybe I was visiting the restaurant at the higher class of the market but I do not recall being seated in the window while eating.
~
Do you not think it is rather impersonal eating while people stare in at you?
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
3:28am Mon 23 Nov 09
~
I would be interested to know how many other towns had violence flare later in the evening after the Christmas lights were switched on. I suspect Wycombe was the only town.
~
Indeed it is best to make sure of the facts before committing.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
Lorrainej, High Wycombe says...
8:45am Mon 23 Nov 09
cressexpert, Cressex says...
12:54pm Mon 23 Nov 09
Just another citizen, Wycombe says...
4:07pm Mon 23 Nov 09
J B Blackett, High Wycombe says...
5:04pm Mon 23 Nov 09
Just another citizen wrote:Is that actually correct , Jacitizen ? In that case it's all a bit worrying.
ssssh don't tell the yobs but the CCTV on High Wycombe High Street does not work and hasn't for some time. Factoid fellow residents. Heard it from an un-named police officer recently.
.
What is the 15-member gold-accredited team managed by an CCTV operations manager based in the Victoria Rd Council offices doing all the time they are working (24/7 apparently)
.
These people operate the systems WD wide for the council (that's the one we fund via the council tax)
.
Are you saying all the 16 Town Centre (plus 12 Automatic Number Plate Recognition) - nearly all with pan , tilt and zoom are not working and out of action as told by the policeman you spoke to ?
.
According the last report by Colin Baker , Chairman of the CCTV Lay Visitors Panel was out of touch and date with his information ?
.
Don't say it's another 'Frogmore Fountain Situation' suppressed story !
That would be NOT ON and almost too much to bear.
.
What about the other 211 cameras in the district (including the 8 in Princes Risboro - they want even more !). How many more are out of action ? It's not good enough , is it ?
.
Please let us know Jacitizen , when you have found out. Thank you.
bakerbill, High Wycombe says...
5:22pm Mon 23 Nov 09
About 80 per cent of last year’s robberies were committed by gangs of Asian and afro-Caribbean people
DC Paul Bowen
source BFP Tuesday 18th August 2009
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/455
2126.Police_action_t
argets_teen_muggers/
A POLICE operation targeting robbery hotspots has slashed muggings of young people by 100 per cent, officers said.
Patrols including stop and search on the Rye, Desborough Road, eden+high+wycombe">e
den+high+wycombe">Ed
en and a skate park saw robberies fall to zero from 177 last year, they said.
This was among 12 to 19-year-olds. Operation Gauntlet will run to the end of the school holidays.
Police chose to launch the six-week operation after attacks by mostly Asian and afro-Caribbean gangs on white teenagers last summer, police said.
DC Paul Bowen said: “Officers would still stop large groups regardless of ethnicity but they would have at the back of their mind that the robberies are committed by this group of ethnic minorities.”
About 80 per cent of last year’s robberies were committed by gangs of Asian and afro-Caribbean people, he said.
Of last year’s attacks, 44 included the showing or threat of a knife.
Some 73 were stopped and searched this year. This led to five arrests on drugs charges.
He said: “It is unusual to see so many people involved in a robbery.”
Officers also visited schools before pupils broke up for the summer to mark property so it can be returned to its owner if recovered.
Yet DC Bowen said the operation was not needed all year round as the robberies were common to the summer months.
Anyone stopped was given a “receipt” by police.
A knife arch and drugs swab kit was used by officers to demonstrate how they are tackling crime.
demoness, Hades says...
8:19pm Mon 23 Nov 09
bakerbill wrote:funny, I thought this was the BFP website, not the BNP...
Just in case you missed this BFP story read it here About 80 per cent of last year’s robberies were committed by gangs of Asian and afro-Caribbean people DC Paul Bowen source BFP Tuesday 18th August 2009 http://www.bucksfree press.co.uk/news/455 2126.Police_action_t argets_teen_muggers/ A POLICE operation targeting robbery hotspots has slashed muggings of young people by 100 per cent, officers said. Patrols including stop and search on the Rye, Desborough Road, eden+high+wycombe"&g
t;e den+high+wycombe">
;Ed en and a skate park saw robberies fall to zero from 177 last year, they said. This was among 12 to 19-year-olds. Operation Gauntlet will run to the end of the school holidays. Police chose to launch the six-week operation after attacks by mostly Asian and afro-Caribbean gangs on white teenagers last summer, police said. DC Paul Bowen said: “Officers would still stop large groups regardless of ethnicity but they would have at the back of their mind that the robberies are committed by this group of ethnic minorities.” About 80 per cent of last year’s robberies were committed by gangs of Asian and afro-Caribbean people, he said. Of last year’s attacks, 44 included the showing or threat of a knife. Some 73 were stopped and searched this year. This led to five arrests on drugs charges. He said: “It is unusual to see so many people involved in a robbery.” Officers also visited schools before pupils broke up for the summer to mark property so it can be returned to its owner if recovered. Yet DC Bowen said the operation was not needed all year round as the robberies were common to the summer months. Anyone stopped was given a “receipt” by police. A knife arch and drugs swab kit was used by officers to demonstrate how they are tackling crime.
Ah well...
tom.marlow, marlow says...
9:27pm Mon 23 Nov 09
bakerbill wrote:Your motivation is quite clear, but what is your point?
Just in case you missed this BFP story read it here About 80 per cent of last year’s robberies were committed by gangs of Asian and afro-Caribbean people DC Paul Bowen source BFP Tuesday 18th August 2009 http://www.bucksfree press.co.uk/news/455 2126.Police_action_t argets_teen_muggers/ A POLICE operation targeting robbery hotspots has slashed muggings of young people by 100 per cent, officers said. Patrols including stop and search on the Rye, Desborough Road, eden+high+wycombe"&g
t;e den+high+wycombe">
;Ed en and a skate park saw robberies fall to zero from 177 last year, they said. This was among 12 to 19-year-olds. Operation Gauntlet will run to the end of the school holidays. Police chose to launch the six-week operation after attacks by mostly Asian and afro-Caribbean gangs on white teenagers last summer, police said. DC Paul Bowen said: “Officers would still stop large groups regardless of ethnicity but they would have at the back of their mind that the robberies are committed by this group of ethnic minorities.” About 80 per cent of last year’s robberies were committed by gangs of Asian and afro-Caribbean people, he said. Of last year’s attacks, 44 included the showing or threat of a knife. Some 73 were stopped and searched this year. This led to five arrests on drugs charges. He said: “It is unusual to see so many people involved in a robbery.” Officers also visited schools before pupils broke up for the summer to mark property so it can be returned to its owner if recovered. Yet DC Bowen said the operation was not needed all year round as the robberies were common to the summer months. Anyone stopped was given a “receipt” by police. A knife arch and drugs swab kit was used by officers to demonstrate how they are tackling crime.
faisal mahmood, sands says...
9:26pm Tue 24 Nov 09
ivor, says...
1:48am Wed 25 Nov 09
~
Yes, knives are a danger to us all but with no visible police presence in our town centre what deterrent is there to the yobbos to make them think twice from carrying a knife.
~
The police may be doing a good job in parts of the town but I never see the police in the town centre. Maybe they should get a PCSO just for the town centre?
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
1:49am Wed 25 Nov 09
~
You probably know my views on the complex. I personally would not say that it was a gift or is paradise however your views may differ.
~
As far as I am concerned we had it better in the 70’s.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
1:49am Wed 25 Nov 09
~
Doesn’t it? That would be shocking if true.
~
Most CCTV systems even when working produce awful quality pictures making them useless.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
1:58am Wed 25 Nov 09
~
Are there really 12 number plate recognition cameras in Wycombe?
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
1:58am Wed 25 Nov 09
~
The link and story you quoted is shocking especially the figure of 44 attacks that involved the showing of a knife.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
1:58am Wed 25 Nov 09
~
But the quote is from a real news article that has appeared on this site.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
1:59am Wed 25 Nov 09
~
Perhaps the point is in the first paragraph of the news article which states that robberies have fallen 100% after the police took action.
~
Maybe this shows that when they want to the police can take effective action.
~
Thank you for your valued comment.
ivor, says...
1:59am Wed 25 Nov 09
~
Thank you for your kind words of praise.
demoness, Hades says...
3:04am Wed 25 Nov 09
ivor wrote:Firstly yes it may well have been but doesn't make it right.Secondly it was being used to apportion blame and stir up racial hatred.
Re the comments of demoness at 8:19pm ~ But the quote is from a real news article that has appeared on this site. ~ Thank you for your valued comment.
Thirdly the fact that you have defended it does make me question your motives Ivor.
tom.marlow, marlow says...
9:01am Wed 25 Nov 09
ivor wrote:Then why the repeated attention to ethnicity? A violent crime is a violent crime regardless of the perpetrator.
Re the comments of tom.marlow at 9:27pm ~ Perhaps the point is in the first paragraph of the news article which states that robberies have fallen 100% after the police took action. ~ Maybe this shows that when they want to the police can take effective action. ~ Thank you for your valued comment.
.
Many historians consider that the dramatic fall in the murder rate in the mid to late 18th century was the result of disarming the aristocracy and stopping them carrying their swords as a status-symbol.
Lorrainej, High Wycombe says...
9:12am Wed 25 Nov 09
ivor wrote:Maybe the times and places that you frequent in town there will not be much of a Police presence, however if you were in town later in the evening or weekends, you may find plenty. The last time I was in town in the evening was about 3-4 weeks ago, we went bowling, and there were two Police officers walking around Eden, and several Security guards, I will also be going into town tomorrow evening, I will let you know if I see any Police, I'm pretty confident I will. I personally know a WPC, who when on duty covers HW town, she assures me that it isn't as bad as some people believe, and it is usually drink related, with most of them just getting over excited because of the drink.
Re the comments of Lorrainej at 8:45am ~ Yes, knives are a danger to us all but with no visible police presence in our town centre what deterrent is there to the yobbos to make them think twice from carrying a knife. ~ The police may be doing a good job in parts of the town but I never see the police in the town centre. Maybe they should get a PCSO just for the town centre? ~ Thank you for your valued comment.
J4, Wycombe says...
10:56am Wed 25 Nov 09
bakerbill wrote:Re: Demoness' comments - I assume you imply that it's racist to report a statement of fact, i.e. that 80% of robberies were committed by ethnic minorities. I don't quite follow this train of thought, which should have died out in the eighties; the sooner we get over this PC, Guardian-style hand-wringing and instead ask ALL sections of the community to a) take responsibility for their youth and b) respect ALL OTHER members of the community, no matter what their race or religion, the sooner we might get over this kind of problem. It seems that the onus to do this is put only on the 'White British' ethnic group at the moment...
Just in case you missed this BFP story read it here
About 80 per cent of last year’s robberies were committed by gangs of Asian and afro-Caribbean people
DC Paul Bowen
source BFP Tuesday 18th August 2009
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/455
2126.Police_action_t
argets_teen_muggers/
A POLICE operation targeting robbery hotspots has slashed muggings of young people by 100 per cent, officers said.
Patrols including stop and search on the Rye, Desborough Road, eden+high+wycombe"&g
t;e
den+high+wycombe">
;Ed
en and a skate park saw robberies fall to zero from 177 last year, they said.
This was among 12 to 19-year-olds. Operation Gauntlet will run to the end of the school holidays.
Police chose to launch the six-week operation after attacks by mostly Asian and afro-Caribbean gangs on white teenagers last summer, police said.
DC Paul Bowen said: “Officers would still stop large groups regardless of ethnicity but they would have at the back of their mind that the robberies are committed by this group of ethnic minorities.”
About 80 per cent of last year’s robberies were committed by gangs of Asian and afro-Caribbean people, he said.
Of last year’s attacks, 44 included the showing or threat of a knife.
Some 73 were stopped and searched this year. This led to five arrests on drugs charges.
He said: “It is unusual to see so many people involved in a robbery.”
Officers also visited schools before pupils broke up for the summer to mark property so it can be returned to its owner if recovered.
Yet DC Bowen said the operation was not needed all year round as the robberies were common to the summer months.
Anyone stopped was given a “receipt” by police.
A knife arch and drugs swab kit was used by officers to demonstrate how they are tackling crime.
J4, Wycombe says...
10:58am Wed 25 Nov 09
tom.marlow, marlow says...
11:35am Wed 25 Nov 09
.
I don't actually think there is any "PC, Guardian-style hand-wringing" to get over.
.
There is a constant stream of "ask ALL sections of the community to a) take responsibility for their youth and b) respect ALL OTHER members of the community, no matter what their race or religion..."
.
This comes from central and local government, the police, community leaders, schools and even Guardian editorials. I dont think anyone is putting the onus on the "white british" ethnic goup. Its directed at everyone.
aspen g, high wycombe says...
2:55pm Wed 25 Nov 09
3:04am Wed 25 Nov 09
ivor wrote:
Re the comments of demoness at 8:19pm ~ But the quote is from a real news article that has appeared on this site. ~ Thank you for your valued comment.
Firstly yes it may well have been but doesn't make it right.Secondly it was being used to apportion blame and stir up racial hatred.
Thirdly the fact that you have defended it does make me question your motives Ivor.
Demoness I for once agree with you. My comments are removed for highlighting the right wing nature of Baker Bills posts - despite the fact the contain no one iota of abuse or racism.
It seems on this website that one can point out the failings of various communities by their race or religion - however if you comment on the right wing motivation of those posts - they get taken down?
With regards to the statement of the 'facts' - it is not racist to state a fact - however one must be wary of stigmatising communities for the crimes committed by a few of their members.
Should this post not get published I will be complaining to the editor of the BFP.
tom.marlow, marlow says...
4:07pm Wed 25 Nov 09
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Is that what happened with your post? Its happened to me before.
aspen g, high wycombe says...
4:22pm Wed 25 Nov 09
I basically think that if your opinion doesn't fit with the Little Britain xenophobic mentality then you are censored.
What leads me to believe this? My posts are not abusive in anyway, yet get removed. Yet posts like this are allowed to stand:
"LOLoutloud, Bourne End says...
2:13pm Sun 22 Nov 09
The police need to stop tip-toeing around the muslim population and start dealing with their racist attitudes to the white english christain majority.
The Hindu/Sikh populations of our town never cause any problems, and are fine members of our society bringing excellent work ethic and respectful values.
The Muslim population has no interest in this, and wants to stick its head in the sand to its backward religion. If you don't like living in a modern country, go back to where you came from."
tom.marlow, marlow says...
6:47pm Wed 25 Nov 09
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I've occasionally had comments removed. I think on one occasion it might have been justified but the context was not important. I was just being gratuitously rude about the insignificance of one of Ivor's blogs.
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I think its important to challenge racism and do so from time to time. I don't recall ever having a comment removed for doing that.
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I also like to challenge the religious nonsense that pops up from time to time. One of these days I will go too far with that and get a comment removed, or struck by a thunderbolt or turned into a pillar of salt or something.
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BakerBills comment earlier nearly prompted me to report it but I decided a witty comment was better.
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On balance I think it is better to allow people to say what they want, even if what they are saying is disagreeable.
aspen g, high wycombe says...
10:32am Fri 27 Nov 09
I too agree that people should be allowed to state their views (as long as they are within the confines of the law).
However I also believe that xenophobia should be challenged at every opportunity. The fact that Loloutlouds comments have not been removed suggest to me that the BFP does not take its duty to moderate racist comments on its website very seriously to the detriment of the local community it serves.
" I was just being gratuitously rude about the insignificance of one of Ivor's blogs."
I agree with this. Ivor has the opportunity within his column to talk about real issues affecting our local community, yet all he wants to do is get more coppers out without dealing with underlying causes of why some kids feel prone to engaging in anti social behaviour.
Personally I would like to see alot more for young people to do within the town centre that is free (so those children whose parents are not on very high incomes) can take part. I would rather save the police officers time to catch real criminals who are carjacking, drug dealing.
Our children have the lowest quality of life of any other European country and that in itself is shocking.
J B Blackett, High Wycombe says...
3:52pm Fri 27 Nov 09
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I also agree with most of your other points.
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I would however propose to you, that the reason for the rise of the BNP and its ilk is due the perceived social neglect of some sections of the British people over the past few years. I use the word 'perceived' deliberately as it it difficult to grasp the 'truth' of matters in this complex area. The phrase 'suppression of views' would be too strong.
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No subject (to me) should be taboo or undebatable - witness the nasty business of paedophilia and abuse recently in the news , suppressed for decades by the Church in Ireland/Dublin. To protect the guilty and the organization - no doubt in my mind.
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It's only with continues openness and exposure to daylight that these nasty unwanted diseases , colonies of bugs, anti-social behaviour and political movements will Not flourish and grow. This is , I believe, is what free speech, accomplishes to everybody's benefit.
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We are all products of our background, upbringing, education and circumstances. So I find it difficult to criticize other people's views on an intellectual level.
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It would appear to be so easy for some liberal-minded people to scoff at other folks' opinions and especially sneer at people who they perceive not to be in the Lab/Lib/Con mainstream. This only makes the targeted recipients only more entrenched in their view of themselves as put-upon victims, in my opinion.
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However what I personally really find unpalatable, unacceptable and social divisive is Dogma either of a political or religious nature which I think (IMHO) has been and still is the cause of so much despair , misery and desperation in this world of ours.
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If you have read this far - Regards
aspen g, high wycombe says...
4:58pm Fri 27 Nov 09
"I would however propose to you, that the reason for the rise of the BNP and its ilk is due the perceived social neglect of some sections of the British people over the past few years. I use the word 'perceived' deliberately as it it difficult to grasp the 'truth' of matters in this complex area. The phrase 'suppression of views' would be too strong."
I do agree with you that amongst certain social strata there is a 'perceived neglect'... which is fuelled by the BNP propaganda machine outwardly lying in its campaign material and the demise of the Labour Party under Tony Blair.
Should the Conservatives win the General Election, I would bet that that the ‘perceived neglect’ of certain strata’s of society will grow and fall victim to the propaganda and fear machine that is the BNP.
Have a nice weekend Mr/Ms Blackett
J B Blackett, High Wycombe says...
6:54pm Fri 27 Nov 09
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I feel rather guilty to admit tol you that I despise nearly all of our current 'politicians' of all parties , whether elected or not. Left , right , sideways or whatever. That is with , I have to say, a few notable exceptions.
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This may be because I and other ordinary people like myself have lost faith and trust in our so-called democratic system and party politics, which appears to be anything but democratic with the political classes acting more like gangs.
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In fact it appears to becoming less 'democratic' day by day and has all the ingredients of an extremely authoritarian regime, ripe for take-over by left or right. The evidence is there to see.
Now that does really worry me ! And that's spite of 'reassuring' speeches and statements by our patronizing, sanctimonious, out-of-touch and hypocritical rulers.
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Perhaps I am becoming too cynical - the outlook is all too depressing at the moment.
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Regards
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Plus ça change..., Wycombe says...
9:58am Sun 22 Nov 09