Council: we did all we could (From Bucks Free Press)
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Council: we did all we could
11:07am Tuesday 22nd December 2009 in
GRITTING bosses today insisted they did all they could to salt roads ahead of yesterday’s travel chaos.
Buckinghamshire County Council roads boss Eric Meek said all A and B roads were gritted twice yesterday – but salt had a limited affect in freezing temperatures.
People queued for hours as ice made major roads inaccessible. Some abandoned their cars and took up shelter at three centres in High Wycombe.
Many blame the council and the chaos led to a storm of angry comments on The Bucks Free Press website.
We have also been inundated with emails hitting out – but also praising good samaritans and public services such as the NHS.
Sue Koch, of Kingsley Crescent, High Wycombe wrote: "What is the county council doing in Wycombe?
“At the moment we have large areas where people can not get cars off their estates.”
Click here for all the news from last night and readers’ comments.
The council’s policy is to continuously re-grit the roads, Mr Meek said today.
But the 14 gritters were stuck in traffic as queues formed throughout Bucks and drivers abandoned their cars, he said.
And Mr Meek said gritters struggled to get to and out of depots at Handy Cross, High Wycombe and London Road, Amersham.
When snow first hit on Thursday it began gritting A and B roads only, but began minor roads on Sunday.
Mr Meek said these major roads were gritted yesterday morning and vehicles then moved onto minor roads.
They were sent back to major roads when it was clear more snow was on the way, he told The Bucks Free Press this morning.
He said: “It was sheer volume of traffic – there were cars being abandoned everywhere.”
How have you been affected? Leave your comments below or email your news, views and pictures to bfpnews@london.newsquest.co.uk.
Trucks have worked overnight as traffic cleared, he said.
Mr Meek added: “There was plenty of salt, it was purely the volume of traffic.”
The council had 10,500 tonnes before the snow came and now has 1,000 to 1,200.
Another order will be delivered after Christmas, Mr Meek said, and external contractors were brought in last night to help.
Click here for the council's priority routes.
But Mr Meek, area manager operations at Transport for Buckinghamshire, said: “After minus four, salt starts losing its effectiveness.
“There wasn’t a huge amount of difference the salt was making.”
And he said: “A lot of the problems are the drivers who are not used to driving in these conditions. They accelerate – that is the worst thing you can do.”
The department had not suffered cuts from the cash-strapped council, he said, and added it was the worst conditions he had seen in 15 years.
Mr Meek said: “There is people phoning in complaining left, right and centre.
“You have just got to accept what they are saying. They were stuck in traffic, they want to vent their anger at people. We have to put up with it.”
Traffic was delayed down the A40 London Road in High Wycombe because drivers were unable to climb hills to neighbourhoods such as Tylers Green and Totteridge.
But Amersham Hill in the town was also closed – meaning drivers had to abandon their cars or drive via Beaconsfield.
Mr Meek said key routes off London Road - Marlow Hill, Amersham Hill, Hammersley Lane, Cock Lane, Micklefield Road, Hatters Lane and Bowerdean Road - had been gritted twice yesterday.
Councillor Valerie Letheren, cabinet member for transportation on the Conservative-controlled council, said: “We don’t make snow.
“All I can say is we have been working around the clock to keep the network open.”
Asked if the council has done all it could, she said: “I think it has. I can’t do anything more than use all my gritters.”
Five members of the public were given overnight shelter at High Wycombe Fire Station. Crew members got them back to their cars the next morning in 4x4s.
A further eight firefighters also stayed overnight as they were unable to get home.
Watch manager Eamonn Eddowes said: “We couldn’t leave them out on their own. We brought them in and helped them out.
“The Swan Theatre gave us a big pan of soup and we also had baked potatoes.”
He added: “In my 27 years as a firefighter I have never seen anything like it. Cars were being abandoned all over the place.”
Comments(102)
stonema1
says...
11:21am Tue 22 Dec 09
Over the last five days, a few centimetres of snow over Buckinghamshire has brought chaos to the area thanks to the woefully inadequate response from Buckinghamshire County Council.
The first snow fell on South Bucks on Thursday night. Yet, despite it being widely forecast, many roads were impassable and schools were closed on Friday morning.
By Monday morning the local authority still hadn’t cleared the majority side roads and there was treacherous icy conditions on many hills which ought to be gritted as part of the County Council’s Risk Assessed Network. I personally witnessed several cars slide into the path of oncoming traffic as they tried to join the A413 at its junction with Lower Road in Gerrards Cross thanks to sheet ice on the incline down to the junction.
Another centimetre or two of widely forecast snow on Monday afternoon brought chaos at rush hour. With traffic queuing through the centre of Gerrards Cross and on the north bound carriage way of the A413 for more than six hours. Around forty cars were left abandoned on the short 300 metre stretch of Lower Road between Oak End Way and South Park, and a friend finally abandoned her attempt to get from Stokenchurch to her home in High Wycombe just after midnight, having left work at around 6pm!
None of this was by any means unusual. The Bucks Free Press website carries stories of long queues, trapped motorists, overflowing hotels and emergency shelters being set up in High Wycombe. All due to a couple of centimetres of snow!
Grit bins ought to have been filled (the bin outside my house on Lower Road only had what remained of last winter’s supplies and has been empty since Saturday) and roads ought to have been gritted (in line with Council’s policy) long before the snow started to fall.
The Council’s ‘Winter Maintenance Policy and Operational Plan’ states:
“The timing of salting when snow is forecast is critical if packing and adhesion is to be prevented. Wherever possible precautionary salting at a rate of 20-40 g/m2 should be commenced before snow falls... Ploughing should commence once accumulations reach 50 mm. The aim should be to keep at least a traffic lane open in both directions. During prolonged periods of snow, it will be necessary to arrange snow ploughing throughout the 24 hour period together with salting initially at a rate of 40 g/m2.”
It seems clear that either the Council did not follow its own operating procedures or it has insufficient resources (in terms of manpower and machinery) to keep the County’s roads open, in which case it ought to have supplemented its own resources with third party sub-contractors as is provided for in the plan:
“Transport for Buckinghamshire (‘TfB’) may have to supplement its own resources with other labour and plant. This will be done by using the TfB supply chain sub-contractors, district, town and parish council staff, local farmers.”
Either way, the Council has failed the people of Buckinghamshire.
It isn’t even as if the weather has been particularly extreme. Over the last 24 hours a couple of centimetres of snow fell on South Bucks and, according to the Met Office, the lowest temperature recorded in High Wycombe was -3c.* I lived in Switzerland (famous for its beautiful snowy mountains) for six years. The temperature dropped, metres of snow fell, drivers fitted winter tyres to their cars, the local authority (helped by local farmers who appreciated the extra income) cleared the roads and everyone went about their business as usual!
Valerie Letheren, the Cabinet member responsible for Transport at Buckinghamshire Country Council should be ashamed of her team’s woefully inadequate performance, and ought to tender her resignation as soon as she can get through the snow to County Hall.
Andrew D. Stoneman
Gerrards Cross
Buckinghamshire
* For the 24 hour period ending 9am on Tuesday 22nd December 2009. Source http://www.metoffice
.gov.uk/weather/uk/s
e/high_wycombe_lates
t_weather_graphs.htm
l
Blueberry
says...
11:28am Tue 22 Dec 09
.
No.
.
So why do so many try to turn it into a party-political issue against our council?
.
If they invest loads more money in gritters etc, you'll be the first to complain when council tax goes up, especially if we have no major snow for a few years and all the money is "wasted".
majestic12
says...
11:32am Tue 22 Dec 09
com/#/group.php?gid=
227319232104&ref=nf
djshakey
says...
11:34am Tue 22 Dec 09
It wasn't minus four yesterday. Snow doesn't fall below freezing. It was snowing. The temperature was about 1 degree.
majestic12
says...
11:36am Tue 22 Dec 09
majestic12 wrote:Correction..
The councils say we have done "everything" we could, Hmmm Years ago before "Global warming" we had "really" cold weather. We would regularly see gritters who were dispersing a reasonable amount of salt and grit, I am sure it's not the council employee's faults however the people holding the purse strings have a lot to answer for. We do not have severe weather every year so stock pilling grit should not be fairly cost effective, If you feel like showing your disgust there is a new Facebook group titled... Where are the UK road Gritters "again" ... http://www.facebook. com/#/group.php?gid= 227319232104&ref
=nf
"should be" fairly cost effective"... the frost bite was kicking in Lol..
majestic12
says...
11:38am Tue 22 Dec 09
djshakey wrote:That just about sums it up djshakey... what more can you say it's a joke.
Mr Meek, area manager operations at Transport for Buckinghamshire, said: “After minus four, salt starts losing its effectiveness." It wasn't minus four yesterday. Snow doesn't fall below freezing. It was snowing. The temperature was about 1 degree.
Farmer Pickles
says...
11:44am Tue 22 Dec 09
The problem was caused by very heavy snow falling and settling quickly at a very busy time of day. These conditions happen very rarely and it is unlikely that the chaos could have been prevented.
However where all our local authorities, councils, police, BBC and even the Bucks Free Press have failed us is in a total lack of useful information and coordination.
Where are the contingency plans and the management plans that are supposed to be put in place? All WDC and BCC are interested in doing on their websites is advertising which of their services are still operating.
Heaven help us if Wycombe ever suffers a major disaster if this lack of leadership continues.
usvelt
says...
11:45am Tue 22 Dec 09
Blueberry wrote:I agree with Blueberry, can you imagine "the outrage" if wdc invested a huge amount of money in ploughs and griters. The first year the equipment was not needed there would be more "outrage" at the vast sums of money wasted by the council. There is no way they can win in this situation.
Was it any better in nearby Herts or Oxon?
.
No.
.
So why do so many try to turn it into a party-political issue against our council?
.
If they invest loads more money in gritters etc, you'll be the first to complain when council tax goes up, especially if we have no major snow for a few years and all the money is "wasted".
I'm not a great fan of WDC but just accept a few days every few years the weather will get the better of us.
stonema1
says...
11:45am Tue 22 Dec 09
Blueberry wrote:.
Was it any better in nearby Herts or Oxon? . No. . So why do so many try to turn it into a party-political issue against our council? . If they invest loads more money in gritters etc, you'll be the first to complain when council tax goes up, especially if we have no major snow for a few years and all the money is "wasted".
Actually it was better in neighbouring counties but that is besides the point. I pay my Council Tax here in Buckinghamshire and expect the Country Council to deliver an appropriate level of service.
.
And it is not a party political point. I don't care whether Councillor Letheren is from the Labour, Liberal, Conservative or Monster Raving Loony Party, she should be ashamed of Transport for Buckinghamshire's woefully inadequate performance, and ought to tender her resignation.
.
As for cost, the Council acknowledges in its ‘Winter Maintenance Policy and Operational Plan’ the significant cost to local business and the economy that delays and accidents resulting from bad weather and the inadequate treatment of roads can cause.
.
Furthermore, one of the great advantages of using local farmers to help clear roads (as they do in Switzerland) is that existing farm machinery (such as tractors) can be fitted with snow ploughs and grit spreaders at minimal cost.
Garden Gnome
says...
11:54am Tue 22 Dec 09
Idiots. The amount of people I have seen driving like complete tw*ts is shocking, personally I don't care if they crash into a tree and write their car off, but I do care if they skid into me or a pedestrian.
stonema1
says...
11:56am Tue 22 Dec 09
djshakey wrote:The Met Office agree. It certainly wasn't -4c yesterday. For teh bulk of teh day (and certainly the period when the snow fell it the Met Office recorded a temperature of 0 degrees celcius in High Wycombe)
Mr Meek, area manager operations at Transport for Buckinghamshire, said: “After minus four, salt starts losing its effectiveness." It wasn't minus four yesterday. Snow doesn't fall below freezing. It was snowing. The temperature was about 1 degree.
.
Monday
10am -3c
11am -2c
12pm -1c
1pm 0c
2pm 0c
3pm 0c
4pm 0c
5pm 0c
6pm 0c
7pm 0c
8pm 0c
9pm 0c
10pm 0c
11pm 0c
12am 0c
.
Tuesday
1am 0c
2am 0c
3am 0c
4am 0c
5am -1c
6am -1c
7am -1c
8am -2c
9am -2c
.
Hourly observations for: High Wycombe
.
Latitude: 51.683; Longitude: -0.8
.
Altitude: 204 m above mean sea level
.
Source: http://www.metoffice
.gov.uk/weather/uk/s
e/high_wycombe_lates
t_weather_graphs.htm
l
Garden Gnome
says...
11:59am Tue 22 Dec 09
stonema1 wrote:Actually I can assure you it was A LOT worse in Hertfordshire and not much better in Beds.
Blueberry wrote: Was it any better in nearby Herts or Oxon? . No. . So why do so many try to turn it into a party-political issue against our council? . If they invest loads more money in gritters etc, you'll be the first to complain when council tax goes up, especially if we have no major snow for a few years and all the money is "wasted".. Actually it was better in neighbouring counties but that is besides the point. I pay my Council Tax here in Buckinghamshire and expect the Country Council to deliver an appropriate level of service. . And it is not a party political point. I don't care whether Councillor Letheren is from the Labour, Liberal, Conservative or Monster Raving Loony Party, she should be ashamed of Transport for Buckinghamshire's woefully inadequate performance, and ought to tender her resignation. . As for cost, the Council acknowledges in its ‘Winter Maintenance Policy and Operational Plan’ the significant cost to local business and the economy that delays and accidents resulting from bad weather and the inadequate treatment of roads can cause. . Furthermore, one of the great advantages of using local farmers to help clear roads (as they do in Switzerland) is that existing farm machinery (such as tractors) can be fitted with snow ploughs and grit spreaders at minimal cost.
LilMissMe
says...
12:05pm Tue 22 Dec 09
erm
says...
12:15pm Tue 22 Dec 09
djshakey wrote:so if it doesnt snow below zero, why does it snow at the north pole?
Mr Meek, area manager operations at Transport for Buckinghamshire, said: “After minus four, salt starts losing its effectiveness." It wasn't minus four yesterday. Snow doesn't fall below freezing. It was snowing. The temperature was about 1 degree.
Plus ça change...
says...
12:15pm Tue 22 Dec 09
It's not all rosy elsewhere or in other countries at the moment.
In these rare circumstances we should all show a bit more 'grit' ...!!
sandman73
says...
12:18pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Garden Gnome
says...
12:18pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Plus ça change... wrote:Careful, if you don't agree with the hysterical majority you are likely to be accused of being a "council insider". ;-)
I agree with Bloob. It's not all rosy elsewhere or in other countries at the moment. In these rare circumstances we should all show a bit more 'grit' ...!!
Garden Gnome
says...
12:20pm Tue 22 Dec 09
sandman73
says...
12:26pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Garden Gnome
says...
12:28pm Tue 22 Dec 09
sandman73 wrote:Excellent. Let us know the results.
sending a letter now then.
Garden Gnome
says...
12:28pm Tue 22 Dec 09
sandman73 wrote:Excellent. Let us know the results.
sending a letter now then.
stonema1
says...
12:33pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Garden Gnome wrote:You can view Buckinghamshire Country Council's 'Salting Map' and 'Winter Maintenance Policy and Operational Plan’ at www.buckscc.gov.uk/s
Of course you could. It's called Freedom of Information. Write in and request them.
ites/bcc/transport/w
inter_driving.page
.
I read this before making my original contribution (above). It woudl seem that either the Council did not follow its own operating procedures or it has insufficient resources (in terms of manpower and machinery) to keep the County’s roads open, in which case it ought to have supplemented its own resources with third party sub-contractors as is provided for in the plan:
.
You can also access the 'Salting Map' at www.buckscc.gov.uk/a
ssets/content/bcc/do
cs/transport/salting
_route_09-10.pdf
And the 'Winter Maintenance Policy and Operational Plan’ at
http://www.buckscc.g
ov.uk/assets/content
/bcc/docs/transport/
Winter_Maintenance_P
olicy_and_Operationa
l_Plan.pdf
Travelbug
says...
12:33pm Tue 22 Dec 09
sandman73
says...
12:37pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Aramis
says...
12:46pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Elmo
says...
12:58pm Tue 22 Dec 09
kaysee
says...
1:06pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Why dont drivers give the car in front room when going up hill, if you can keep momentum you stand more chance .
By abandoning cars it blocks the route for vehicles that can make headway, gritters dont work if they are stuck in a queue.
Perhaps we should send drivers on courses of how to drive in ice and snow, it is not too difficult really.
Me well I played safe and fitted my snow chains for the last uphill mile of my journey, and happily drove past many a stuck car.
Roll on on the next lot of snow so all the whigers can have another poke at Bucks CC
stonema1
says...
1:16pm Tue 22 Dec 09
.
One of the reasons for the Buckinghamshire Country Council’s completely inadequate response to the recent snow fall is the number of gritters / snow ploughs at its disposal.
.
The Council is responsible for approx 3,300km of roadway.
.
The Priority 1 salting network which is made up of A and B roads and other high priority risk assessed roads is approximately 1375km which means that each of the County Council’s 25 gritters / snow ploughs has to cover 55km of Priority 1 roads.
.
This is before the Council even thinks about turning its attention to the remaining 1925km of Priority 2 and Priority 3 Roads (a further 77km per gritter / snow plough).
.
It simply isn’t realistic to expect a gritter / snowplough to cover 132km of urban roads within a few hours of the snow falling, hence the utter chaos on our roads.
.
One of the great advantages of using local farmers to help clear roads (as they do in Switzerland) is that existing farm machinery (such as tractors) can be fitted with snow ploughs and grit spreaders at minimal cost. The farmer benefits from the additional income and road user benefits from the larger number of vehicles helping to keep the roads open.
.
.
Andrew D. Stoneman
Gerrards Cross
Buckinghamshire
tom.marlow
says...
1:18pm Tue 22 Dec 09
erm wrote:Because popular misconceptions only apply when you have enough people trying to find someone to blame.
djshakey wrote: Mr Meek, area manager operations at Transport for Buckinghamshire, said: “After minus four, salt starts losing its effectiveness." It wasn't minus four yesterday. Snow doesn't fall below freezing. It was snowing. The temperature was about 1 degree.so if it doesnt snow below zero, why does it snow at the north pole?
.
Not many people at the North Pole and those that are there are usually quite experienced in dealing with snow and related weather conditions. In these circumstances the normal laws of physics apply.
DeepThinker
says...
1:21pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Garden Gnome wrote:Totally agree with you. You just have to sympathize with their ignorance. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
Plus ça change... wrote: I agree with Bloob. It's not all rosy elsewhere or in other countries at the moment. In these rare circumstances we should all show a bit more 'grit' ...!!Careful, if you don't agree with the hysterical majority you are likely to be accused of being a "council insider". ;-)
polypore
says...
1:29pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Last year I complained (as to me Pastures looks to be the obvious road to salt) and was told that the choices were based on local expert opinion. Hmmm.
cmilsom
says...
1:55pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Anyway see the funny side of this, at least those people who got stranded spent a night at John Lewis...How many times to you get to do that???
Slacker
says...
1:58pm Tue 22 Dec 09
DeepThinker
says...
2:08pm Tue 22 Dec 09
cmilsom wrote:How dare you start moaning about people moaning!
Yes, I agree it was terrible that people got stranded.....but stop moaning all you people do on here is moan. Anyway see the funny side of this, at least those people who got stranded spent a night at John Lewis...How many times to you get to do that???
.
Haven't you got anything better to do than moan about people who have nothing better to do than moan about the state of the roads.
.
In case you are wondering I feel that it is necessary for me to moan about people that have nothing better to do than moan about people who have nothing better to do than moan about the state of the roads.
Snowbunny
says...
2:09pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Aramis
says...
2:12pm Tue 22 Dec 09
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/topics/weathe
r/6672631/British-wi
nter-to-be-milder-sa
ys-Met.html
Yes, this is the same Met Office which is attempting to predict doom-mongering high temperatures in 2050.
Perhaps in future, the council will take such predictions with a pinch of salt (with added grit of course).
flower56
says...
2:25pm Tue 22 Dec 09
678
says...
2:25pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Peppad
says...
2:26pm Tue 22 Dec 09
majestic12 wrote:Forecast shows -5 as of 6pm tonight....Whats the plan then?
djshakey wrote: Mr Meek, area manager operations at Transport for Buckinghamshire, said: “After minus four, salt starts losing its effectiveness." It wasn't minus four yesterday. Snow doesn't fall below freezing. It was snowing. The temperature was about 1 degree.That just about sums it up djshakey... what more can you say it's a joke.
Any ideas or are the council waiting for suggestions??
Did everyone at the Council Offices show up for work today? Do you all live on main roads???? Maybe you all stayed in the Swan last night and walked to work??
Come on Wycombe ..... how many more times does this have to happen...this is the second big deposit of snow so far this year, how many more before we have a proper plan?
stonema1
says...
2:34pm Tue 22 Dec 09
ites/bcc/transport/w
inter_driving.page for details.
Red Fred
says...
2:45pm Tue 22 Dec 09
~
On the bright side at least all those BMW and Audi drivers that never bother with those flashing orange light thingummies got to use them in hazard light mode.
cowleywebley
says...
2:58pm Tue 22 Dec 09
I want a refund or reduction on my council tax.
What is the point in paying it!
michael healy
says...
3:04pm Tue 22 Dec 09
I got home today at 7am and had to have a cuppa to thaw out.
This council like to spend OUR MONEY on stupid ideas of their own and not on the things we want most GRIT AND SALT on our streets and on our streets on an hourly basis when the weather is bad like it is.
Well done Bucks County Council AGAIN for getting it wrong!!!!!
Give us back our GRIT BINS on chiltern Avenue; you took them away because the residents were using the GRIT and SALT on their drive ways and footpaths. Wake up you stupid lot down at the council, we pay for the stuff so its our safety at stake here.
No xmas card for you lot from me this year!! We pay for services so have the decency and supply them please.
chris740
says...
3:08pm Tue 22 Dec 09
what a pair.
how can two people xxxk up a town
s mccann
says...
3:14pm Tue 22 Dec 09
J4
says...
3:47pm Tue 22 Dec 09
A friend visiting from Russia couldn't believe how disorganised things were. As well as the obvious stuff about gritters/snow plows not getting out quick enough/us not having enough, why were there no announcements on the radio/internet saying that Marlow Hill was closed? All I saw was one policeman trying to tell everyone - if we'd known we were waiting for nothing we could have parked up a lot sooner.
They say we're the developed country and the Russians are lagging behind - not on last night's evidence! Even in towns where there's not normally a lot of snow they seem to have stuff like this covered...
Yours,
Broken Britain
Steve.m
says...
3:50pm Tue 22 Dec 09
faye93x
says...
3:58pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Steve Totteridge Hill
says...
4:46pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Kept awake till 2 am this morning by the idiots trying to get up the hill... 7 RTA's outside my castle, even asking the police to shut the road.
davidpaget
says...
6:01pm Tue 22 Dec 09
When will these people realise that well done always trumps well said. We will tell you when you have done a good job. Don't now try and tell us it's our fault. How many of us see regular traffic census checking our journeys and yet you are still surprised about how many vehicles use our shabby road net work. To quote the article 'Eight new purpose-built salt spreaders, to replace some of the existing fleet have been commissioned to help TfB keep the county's routes in top-notch condition this winter. In the vernacular 'your avin a laugh'
wayneo
says...
6:27pm Tue 22 Dec 09
michaelgwia
says...
6:30pm Tue 22 Dec 09
baggs
says...
6:32pm Tue 22 Dec 09
wayneo
says...
6:34pm Tue 22 Dec 09
stonema1
says...
6:35pm Tue 22 Dec 09
wayneo wrote:I will be amongst the first to sign your petition. Valerie Letheren, the Cabinet member responsible for Transport at Buckinghamshire Country Council should be ashamed of her team’s woefully inadequate performance, and ought to go!
How many roads bosse are there for pete's sake????? every week they are asked to comment there's a different one. Letheren is the one who should resign, the buck stops with her and I feel a petition coming on that ensures she goes.
sidthesexist
says...
7:18pm Tue 22 Dec 09
munchkin79
says...
7:24pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Travelbug
says...
7:36pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Snowbunny
says...
7:58pm Tue 22 Dec 09
"Bucks County Council has revealed that roads in Aylesbury Vale were not salted throughout the day on Monday.
The last time the roads were treated was at 4am on Monday despite weather warnings from the Met Office"
stonema1
says...
8:00pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Lowel
says...
8:07pm Tue 22 Dec 09
stonema1 wrote:Ok firstly it was not a few centimetres of snow more like 12 inches in some places near Asda.
Snow, traffic chaos and the woefully inadequate response from Buckinghamshire County Council... Over the last five days, a few centimetres of snow over Buckinghamshire has brought chaos to the area thanks to the woefully inadequate response from Buckinghamshire County Council. The first snow fell on South Bucks on Thursday night. Yet, despite it being widely forecast, many roads were impassable and schools were closed on Friday morning. By Monday morning the local authority still hadn’t cleared the majority side roads and there was treacherous icy conditions on many hills which ought to be gritted as part of the County Council’s Risk Assessed Network. I personally witnessed several cars slide into the path of oncoming traffic as they tried to join the A413 at its junction with Lower Road in Gerrards Cross thanks to sheet ice on the incline down to the junction. Another centimetre or two of widely forecast snow on Monday afternoon brought chaos at rush hour. With traffic queuing through the centre of Gerrards Cross and on the north bound carriage way of the A413 for more than six hours. Around forty cars were left abandoned on the short 300 metre stretch of Lower Road between Oak End Way and South Park, and a friend finally abandoned her attempt to get from Stokenchurch to her home in High Wycombe just after midnight, having left work at around 6pm! None of this was by any means unusual. The Bucks Free Press website carries stories of long queues, trapped motorists, overflowing hotels and emergency shelters being set up in High Wycombe. All due to a couple of centimetres of snow! Grit bins ought to have been filled (the bin outside my house on Lower Road only had what remained of last winter’s supplies and has been empty since Saturday) and roads ought to have been gritted (in line with Council’s policy) long before the snow started to fall. The Council’s ‘Winter Maintenance Policy and Operational Plan’ states: “The timing of salting when snow is forecast is critical if packing and adhesion is to be prevented. Wherever possible precautionary salting at a rate of 20-40 g/m2 should be commenced before snow falls... Ploughing should commence once accumulations reach 50 mm. The aim should be to keep at least a traffic lane open in both directions. During prolonged periods of snow, it will be necessary to arrange snow ploughing throughout the 24 hour period together with salting initially at a rate of 40 g/m2.” It seems clear that either the Council did not follow its own operating procedures or it has insufficient resources (in terms of manpower and machinery) to keep the County’s roads open, in which case it ought to have supplemented its own resources with third party sub-contractors as is provided for in the plan: “Transport for Buckinghamshire (‘TfB’) may have to supplement its own resources with other labour and plant. This will be done by using the TfB supply chain sub-contractors, district, town and parish council staff, local farmers.” Either way, the Council has failed the people of Buckinghamshire. It isn’t even as if the weather has been particularly extreme. Over the last 24 hours a couple of centimetres of snow fell on South Bucks and, according to the Met Office, the lowest temperature recorded in High Wycombe was -3c.* I lived in Switzerland (famous for its beautiful snowy mountains) for six years. The temperature dropped, metres of snow fell, drivers fitted winter tyres to their cars, the local authority (helped by local farmers who appreciated the extra income) cleared the roads and everyone went about their business as usual! Valerie Letheren, the Cabinet member responsible for Transport at Buckinghamshire Country Council should be ashamed of her team’s woefully inadequate performance, and ought to tender her resignation as soon as she can get through the snow to County Hall. Andrew D. Stoneman Gerrards Cross Buckinghamshire * For the 24 hour period ending 9am on Tuesday 22nd December 2009. Source http://www.metoffice .gov.uk/weather/uk/s e/high_wycombe_lates t_weather_graphs.htm l
I have never seen one gritter lorry so the council cannot say they have done enough because if they had, for example been prepared, then not as many people would be in a bad situation. I have been lucky because the car broke down a few weeks ago and we are close enough to walk to Asda ever day/when needed. I think people on here should stop moaning and see the happier side to this snow.
Snowbunny
says...
8:11pm Tue 22 Dec 09
RRS
says...
8:32pm Tue 22 Dec 09
michaelj12
says...
8:41pm Tue 22 Dec 09
emmse
says...
8:50pm Tue 22 Dec 09
catrinka
says...
8:55pm Tue 22 Dec 09
One report says Hatters Lane was gritted 3 times on Monday before the snow- Lie. It most definatly was not!
They are now blaming the abandoned cars- If you can see crashed cars all around you, and the roads are full of ice- surely abandoning the car and walking is the SAFEST thing to do?!!!! Or would they rather everyone continue driving and risk theirs and others lives?
I did not take my car out luckily- but i dont blame those that did- with no local radio station and busy lives, most probably did not know the severity of the snow- plus it started in the afternoon which is obviosuly after people had commuted to work so they had to get home somehow. The pressure on people to turn up to work even in these conditions is rediculous "u wont get paid, you will be forced to take it as leave" etc. Some people really dont care about the safety and welfare of others, for example, the council!
George1
says...
9:02pm Tue 22 Dec 09
ivor
says...
9:04pm Tue 22 Dec 09
~
I am covering this topic on my blog today!
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “YOUR SAY” link at the top of the page then click on “BLOGS”.
Emar
says...
10:06pm Tue 22 Dec 09
It is awkward and slippery to walk on. There are elderly people, some invalids in the area too. Cars can't drive along the road and those who have tried have got stuck on the hill at the road junction.
Local residents, including women, have today spent the entire afternoon scraping and shovelling to try to clear the junction between Baronsmead Road and Deeds Grove.
Then, early evening, two gritting vehicles went past, along Deeds Grove. They drove past Baronsmead Road and the dangerous junction which is crying out for gritting.
I was dismayed, after a moment's joy, when I saw the vehicles, thinking that we may be able to go
out tomorrow to Wycombe.
So I phoned the Council and you told me that gritting of our road is not on the gritting route and you told me to write to our MP.
My husband also phoned to ask about the pavements and was told that pavements are not gritted.
We would like it explained to us why, if we are virtually stranded, we can't have some grit put down our hilly road and pavements, especially when we have been tantalised by seeing the vehicles in our area. Thankyou.
Franke
says...
10:34pm Tue 22 Dec 09
The road was such a mess on Tuesday mid day that 5 of us decided to clear a T juction on an incline and decline as the roads meet, with our spades and brooms...so to keep people moving and stop having to push people up...it took time and effort - but its clear due to some hard work.
Any gritters come up our road No, is the road on a list No, yet it is the main rat run to avoid New Road when its busy and for the daily school runs - A, B roads..what about roads that actully have a busy flow of traffic, day in day out...where people live and has residents who need to use the road also paying their fair share of tax ?
Emar
says...
11:12pm Tue 22 Dec 09
Also, I'd like to thank the taxi-drivers from the bus-station who drove us as near as they could to our home on Saturday and Monday.
They were very apologetic not to be able to risk the hills, but we understood. Another driver in his 4x4 stopped and offered us a lift, so thanks to him, also.
I guess there are many people with aching limbs after trudging along in the snow, but it is more of a shame for the people who have just been doing a good turn.
iswycombe
says...
12:44am Wed 23 Dec 09
Mediawatcher
says...
12:51am Wed 23 Dec 09
It does not deal with SNOW which hit fast and due to the temperature settled very quickly.
The council are not to blame for the weather and as a night shift worker I have to say i saw them out there in their droves from Weds evening onwards. The fact to much snow fell too quick is what cause the chaos, not if the roads were gritted or not.
The main problem I had and saw was that modern cars are now fitted with traction control or anti slip devices which unless you have a mega expensive car you cannot turn off. I had to have a chuckle as most of us found our cars would not go anywhere in the snow because of these devices yet those in the old bangers trundled on wondering what all the fuss was about.
Someone on here commented on the lack of emergency services, well the A40, A404, A413, A355, A4010, Handy Cross, Amersham Hill, Marlow Hill, Gore Hill...well about every hill in the Chilterns required them.....there just wasn't enough of them to go to all the roads in Bucks.
Give these guys a break and stop whining that you got stuck in some snow. So did the rest of us.
sportsturf
says...
1:25am Wed 23 Dec 09
Gyno
says...
3:34am Wed 23 Dec 09
You seem such a kind, sincere Gentleman whom I respect most dearly, but regretfully I don’t think you will get any thanks or help from our despicable local government.
I wish you and your friends well.
You are doing what our local council should be doing and what we are paying taxes for.
Best wishes to you, your friends and their families. Happy Christmas.
Gyno
wayneo
says...
7:39am Wed 23 Dec 09
Plus ça change...
says...
8:28am Wed 23 Dec 09
Have a quick 'google' over to current news on other European countries today and just see how they are 'coping' at the moment ...!!
Having said that, maybe defensive pronouncements like 'we don't make snow...' are not very diplomatic.
I have never been spoken to or smiled at by so many people on the streets of Wycombe before... so there is an 'upside'...
But maybe it was just my hat.
Aramis
says...
8:44am Wed 23 Dec 09
That sounds like a truly frightening experience....Heart goes out to you.
Garden Gnome
says...
9:46am Wed 23 Dec 09
Mediawatcher wrote:At last a voice of reason speaks...!
I think a reality check is needed here, Grit deals with ICE, once deposited it needs cars to pass over it and crush it to attempt to prevent ice from forming or remaining. It does not deal with SNOW which hit fast and due to the temperature settled very quickly. The council are not to blame for the weather and as a night shift worker I have to say i saw them out there in their droves from Weds evening onwards. The fact to much snow fell too quick is what cause the chaos, not if the roads were gritted or not. The main problem I had and saw was that modern cars are now fitted with traction control or anti slip devices which unless you have a mega expensive car you cannot turn off. I had to have a chuckle as most of us found our cars would not go anywhere in the snow because of these devices yet those in the old bangers trundled on wondering what all the fuss was about. Someone on here commented on the lack of emergency services, well the A40, A404, A413, A355, A4010, Handy Cross, Amersham Hill, Marlow Hill, Gore Hill...well about every hill in the Chilterns required them.....there just wasn't enough of them to go to all the roads in Bucks. Give these guys a break and stop whining that you got stuck in some snow. So did the rest of us.
You are totally right and I think people have completely unrealistic expectations of what salting the roads can actually achieve in weather like this.
Craig....
says...
10:02am Wed 23 Dec 09
sportsturf wrote:Sportsturf, please do us all a favour and kick up a BIG fuss about this. Hopefully someone from the BFP will read this and invite the council to comment.
Stonema 1.........im a farm contractor, as is a friend of mine, between us we run about 12 tractors, all 4wd and we offered to go into handy cross depot to fill our sand spreaders, (which we use on sportsfields to spread sand) we could have had about 4 rigs out on the go to help with gritting, i was getting up hatters lane, pastures, and plomer hill.....with my tractor...but hey Bucks county council said no...so we went out with telescopic loaders to scrap the road round where we operate...i have spent the last 2 days pulling cars and buses up hills, like desboro....
I'm sure we'd all like to hear the answer....
lh6668
says...
10:12am Wed 23 Dec 09
On Monday night thousands of peoples lives were at risk. People trying to drive and people abandoning vehicles and having to walk past people trying to drive.
Too many people are blaming the drivers for GOING TO WORK! Try telling all those businesses that "due to snow, we will not be showing up for work today" ... get real. Are we being thick by assuming that when we go to work, knowing that there will be snow on its way, we are to ASSUME that the council DO THEIR JOB? Seriously??
One police officer told one lady that the gritters weren't allowed on Marlow Hill because of "Health & Safety" ..... Arrrgh! It beggars belief. I am incensed that WDC have the audacity to say that Henley Road in Marlow is one of the priority roads to be gritted. Why then was this not done til gone 11pm at night, after a ton of cars had to be left on it, after hundreds of people had to walk down dark country lanes with no lighting and no pathways in order to try and get home.
Why do the council insist that gritting doesn't help in temperatures below a certain degree - when clearly, the minute the gritters had been the cars were able to finally get up the hill on Henley Road. I repeat - THE GRITTING WORKED. Unlike what Mediawatcher said. Snow, ice, whatever - it worked. And finally NORMAL cars (even "old bangers" that couldn't before) were able to get up that blasted hill.
And, lastly, why are there some idiots trying to insist that the council did all they could and that the drivers are to blame for trying to go about their normal daily business. And I watched, horrified, at people trying to CRAWL (not drive at speed) home - to no avail. The council authorities (whether it be Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, Green Party etc) should be disgusted with themselves.
The world has gone mad.
bakerbill
says...
10:52am Wed 23 Dec 09
and could have avoided the chaos
The BBC could have helped much more by Breaking ito its trainsmisions and giving us the info
on this problem .Years ago when we had CB radios in our cars we had excellent local road condition info , as we cannot rely on the police, council ,BBC, etc to help us.
Dig out the old CB Radios and refit them in the cars , 10-10 good Buddy's
iswycombe
says...
11:31am Wed 23 Dec 09
lh6668 wrote:I agree wholeheartedly with this. Although I'm sure their were a good few bad drivers as there always is..most of the stranded drivers were people who were coming back from work-I had gone to pick up my children from their fathers in london who were all poorly. I think either way if anyone knew the chaos that would greet them on the roads that night no one would of ventured out whatsoever. The fact is that some people seem to be missing the severity of the situation here. There could of been a number of fatalities..as I said before by the time me and my 3 children got home they were very dehydrated (despite stopping half way through our journey at beaconsfield to get drinks/petrol there was a queue of around 40 people). My phone battery died and roadside assistance on the m40 were more than unhelpful when my petrol ran out. There was NO ONE to help me, except the amazing members of our community that were out until the early morning directing people and helping people. I don't know where the police were..by the time we got to wycombe at 12 midnight to 3 am there was no traffic really but also no police officers and no roads had been gritted. It's the councils responsibility to make sure we are all safe here in our community but we were let down massively. Whether you agree or not, the hills should of been gritted there was enough room for the gritters to get through marlow hill at least.
Hang on - surely KEEPING LIVES SAFE on the roads SHOULD be part of our Council Tax? Is this not obvious? If there's a dirty great hole developed in the main road - would the council not fix it? Council tax has gone up - gritters have gone down. On Monday night thousands of peoples lives were at risk. People trying to drive and people abandoning vehicles and having to walk past people trying to drive. Too many people are blaming the drivers for GOING TO WORK! Try telling all those businesses that "due to snow, we will not be showing up for work today" ... get real. Are we being thick by assuming that when we go to work, knowing that there will be snow on its way, we are to ASSUME that the council DO THEIR JOB? Seriously?? One police officer told one lady that the gritters weren't allowed on Marlow Hill because of "Health & Safety" ..... Arrrgh! It beggars belief. I am incensed that WDC have the audacity to say that Henley Road in Marlow is one of the priority roads to be gritted. Why then was this not done til gone 11pm at night, after a ton of cars had to be left on it, after hundreds of people had to walk down dark country lanes with no lighting and no pathways in order to try and get home. Why do the council insist that gritting doesn't help in temperatures below a certain degree - when clearly, the minute the gritters had been the cars were able to finally get up the hill on Henley Road. I repeat - THE GRITTING WORKED. Unlike what Mediawatcher said. Snow, ice, whatever - it worked. And finally NORMAL cars (even "old bangers" that couldn't before) were able to get up that blasted hill. And, lastly, why are there some idiots trying to insist that the council did all they could and that the drivers are to blame for trying to go about their normal daily business. And I watched, horrified, at people trying to CRAWL (not drive at speed) home - to no avail. The council authorities (whether it be Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, Green Party etc) should be disgusted with themselves. The world has gone mad.
Rikard
says...
12:49pm Wed 23 Dec 09
If the hill had been given priority then it wouldn't have got to the stage where the gritters couldn't get through. I watched a gritter go down on Tuesday but he couldn't do anything for the cars and I think the Police, who patrolled the hill regularly, probably advised against bringing huge trucks up it on safety grounds. The route through Downley at the top has been kept clear since Tuesday although late last night the hill was skiddy.
Surely it's reasonable to conclude that if Wycombe's hills were included - taking geography into account as well as road classification - then everything would have been a bit better for a bit longer both before and after the unpreventable things happened. Wycombe is built in a valley on an A road - the hills all feed that A road.
sai-diva
says...
1:06pm Wed 23 Dec 09
Bear this in mind when you next get the chance to vote.
tom.marlow
says...
2:02pm Wed 23 Dec 09
gatti09
says...
2:08pm Wed 23 Dec 09
its no good ppl saying in other countries they dont have this problem when it snows cos ppl in those countries have the sense to fit snow tyres or chains to their vehicles
If someone is stupid enough to drive their punto/corsa etc up a hill in this weather with normal tyres then bigger fool them, they deserve to get stuck !
cant ppl think for themselves anymore or has this country become full of morons
theres a simple solution........ u look at the weather conditions, road conditions and work out for yaself if its safe to drive !!!!
lh6668
says...
2:37pm Wed 23 Dec 09
in this country (before the council cut back on important stuff because they wanted to create a few more forms perhaps), when there was freak weather conditions, the council and gritters were ready.
i assume, just by the mere fact that you write "ppl" instead of people that you are young. bless. then you won't realise that the councils used to grit these roads in winter, when cold weather was predicted by the met office. you probably don't know that they used to not wait for the first snow to fall before getting the gritters out. you probably won't realise what it's like to have to go to work for a job and have to come home. you probably don't realise that outside of high wycombe, where you hang out, that there are a lot of roads and houses on hills. and you probably aren't aware of the fact that not everyone owns a punto or a corsa. in fact, get this, some people own big cars, fast cars, strong cars. it's amazing huh? and those people with puntos and corsas along with the people with the big, expensive, strong cars didn't drive up the hill, which was why they left them. oh and - amazingly, when people went out to work that day, in their punto or corsa or big car, they expected that the council ...... wait for it ..... DO THEIR JOB.
hang on - maybe you're not young. maybe you're just stupid, highlighted by the fact that you're spelling people the way you do .... which means .... you MUST work for the council! Bingo !!
get a life.
michael healy
says...
6:03pm Wed 23 Dec 09
Why dont they put all the money they get through fines for cars put back into the roads and stop telling us lies about they have no money. They get every houshold to cough up council tax and or business rates every month so how on earth can they say they have no money????
We know you have money OUR money and all we want is a proper service. IF you cannot do the job i suggest you stand down and let a private company do it on a retainer scheme. I bet every road would be gritted and salt put down then!
michael healy
says...
7:49pm Wed 23 Dec 09
I have had to take John Lewis PLC to county court for not fixing my Toshiba Teleivision Properly under their so called 5 years Guarantee. Its WORTHLESS, just a selling point of SALE JARGON.
I sent them my reciept and then heard nothing! Then i complained and they sent someone out to collect my tv and gave me a loan tv untill my one was fixed.
I then got a call to say my tv was fixed. When they dropped it off i noticed straight away it had a crack on the top casing and a piece visibly missing. Not only that they said they wanted to take their tv back. I refused to accept my broken tv as the picture was not proper as it should be, pixels were missing and the fact that it was damaged.
I sent a letter to their managing director and they had the audacity to say they wanted £600 for the loan tv because i didnt give it back. Anyway, i issued a law suit againt the Managing Director of the whole company, in his name. That made them sit up and listen a bit but they had it changed at court to J L PLC.
They refuse to give me £1300 back which i paid for the tv and say its over 5 years old but cannot prove this at all. Hence i will be fighting my case in High Wycombe county couRt in Feb 2010
SO JOHN LEWIS PLC HIGH WYCOMBE BRANCH.
YOU ARE NOT SO GOOD AFTER ALL.
I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM OTHER PEOPLE OF HIGH WYCOMBE WHO HAVE HAD A SIMILAR EXPERIENCE AT THE JOHN LEWIS HIGH WYCOMBE BRANCH WITH REGARDS TO THE "SO CALLED"5 YEAR GUARANTEE ON THEIR TELEVISION SETS
AlastairWatts
says...
8:00pm Wed 23 Dec 09
Steve.m
says...
8:03pm Wed 23 Dec 09
wayneo
says...
9:19pm Wed 23 Dec 09
tom.marlow wrote:hahaha, saw it earlier, thought the same thing.
It hadn't occurred to me until just now, but of course, this years Viz annual is called "The Council Gritter". Must be some irony in there somewhere.
limajuliet
says...
10:08pm Wed 23 Dec 09
Yes I pay council tax. Yes I was hungry and thirsty stuck in my car. Yes I was annoyed at idiots who cannot drive properly - but just accept that things happen in life and there doesn't always have to be someone to blame!
Some of the comments here are utterly ridiculous - lh6668, stonema1, djshakey to name but a few.
srt
says...
11:23pm Wed 23 Dec 09
srt
says...
11:23pm Wed 23 Dec 09
stonemanfamily
says...
10:39am Thu 24 Dec 09
limajuliet wrote:I am not sure what limajuliet finds so ridiculous about my (stonema1) postings which argue that that Buckinghamshire County Council (along with a number of other local authorities up and down the country have failed to deal with the recent snowfall in a proper manner.
It was extreme weather - accept it and stop moaning! Yes I got stuck in a traffic jam all night too but I don't blame the council! Yes I pay council tax. Yes I was hungry and thirsty stuck in my car. Yes I was annoyed at idiots who cannot drive properly - but just accept that things happen in life and there doesn't always have to be someone to blame! Some of the comments here are utterly ridiculous - lh6668, stonema1, djshakey to name but a few.
.
As I mentioned in previous postings, I lived in Switerland (where we would have meters is snow over the course of an average winter) for six years so know a thing a two about snow.
lh6668
says...
11:04am Thu 24 Dec 09
stonemanfamily
says...
11:04am Thu 24 Dec 09
Yes, individuals need to take responsibility. In Switzerland we would change the regular 'summer' tyres on our cars for softer 'winter' tyres as December approached and would carry snow chains in the boot (I only ever needed to use them once because the roads are cleared as soon as the snow falls).
The local authorities partner with farmers and other local businesses who grit the roads, plough and blow the snow, and clear the footpaths.
Yes, I know that living here in Bucks where the local authoity cannot even manage to keep the main roads open this may sound like a dream world, but I can assure you it is real! What is more, Switzerland has one of the lowest tax rates in Europe (the central, kantonal and local governments all levy income based tax rather than the local authorities charging property based taxes yet we paid only around 20%-25% of our in taxes instead of the 40% income tax + 10% national insurance + hundreds or thousands of pounds in council tax that is the norm here in the UK. Oh, and we had the lowest rate of VAT in Europe too!
Wake up! Our public services could be a whole lot better. But thanks to the likes of those people who are writing on this website defending the woefully inadequate performace of our local authority rather than demanding it emulates the best in the world, I doubt they ever will be.
stonemanfamily
says...
11:19am Thu 24 Dec 09
Mediawatcher
says...
4:26pm Thu 24 Dec 09
It has nothing to do with the goodwill shown by John Lewis staff in allowing people to spend the night in their store instead of freezing on the streets.
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miccles says...
11:18am Tue 22 Dec 09
LETHEREN you are incapable of doing your job properly.
GO