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Top cop: ethnic minority searches are 'disproportionate’


This story was updated at 3pm.

POLICE stop and searches amongst ethnic minorities in High Wycombe are ‘disproportionate’, the chief constable of Thames Valley Police has said.

Of 1,586 ethnic minorities searched in 10 months, some 87 were arrested - and chief constable Sara Thornton said this was too low.

Independent police authority member Ben Simpson said: “It appears to be somewhat disproportionate given the population.”

Mr Simpson said: “I believe that to be inappropriate and unlawful.”

Chf Const Thornton said: “You are absolutely right. Wycombe is the most disproportionate.”

A total 8,976 people were searched between April 2009 to February 2010, with 2,746 from 'black and minority ethnic' groups.

Yet of this number the majority, 1,586 were from Wycombe district compared to 574 in Aylesbury Vale, 397 in Chiltern and 189 in South Buckinghamshire districts.

This means 45 per cent of Wycombe searches were amongst ethnic minorities, which make up 13 per cent of the population.

Ethnic minorities made up 23 per cent of searches in Aylesbury Vale, by comparison. Some eight per cent of residents are from an ethnic minority.

This was 16 per cent against a population of 10 per cent in the South Buckinghamshire district, which includes Beaconsfield and Gerrards Cross.

Click the link at the bottom of this story to read the full figures.

And Chf Const Thornton said: “My biggest problem with stop and search is I don’t think the arrest rate is going up.” This was under ten per cent, she said.

She said: “You are stopping a lot of people from black and Asian backgrounds who are not arrested and that leads of grievances.”

Chf Const Thornton said the district was ‘where some of the wild comments are made’ about the police’s reasons for stopping and searching residents.

The powers must only be used to detect crimes – for which there must be ‘reasonable’ grounds – and not as a deterrent, she said.

She said: “Otherwise they are wasting their time and my time and your money.”

Chf Const Thornton said: “We need to have a good conversation with the local community about that.

“This is also a community who feel very heavily that they are victimised in terms of crime.”

The force would be discussing the issue with Wycombe Race Equality Council, she said. The force did not work to targets, she emphasised.

But she said: “Even if we were perfect, that doesn’t mean we get proportional outcomes.”

Knife crime was a key concern, she said.

Minutes of the last Buckinghamshire Police Committee show the county had ‘lower ethnicity recording rates and intelligence of value’ than others in TVP.

Yet county commander Chief Superintendent Paul Emmings said this did ‘not accurately reflect the true value of the searches’.

Police ‘had run operations with specific intelligence, which in some cases had led to an increase in [black and minority ethnic] stop and searches’.

He cited the example of a burglary gang investigated by police. The ‘local community…had been entirely supportive of the increased stop and search incidents’ the minutes record.

Independent police authority member Alison Phillips, who was at the June 8 Bucks meeting, said she was ‘satisfied’ with the response.

She said: “He was able to give a good account for the reasons for the increase. They were intelligence led stop and searches.”

But fellow independent member Beverley Thompson said: “I didn’t feel convinced that the force was on top of issues of proportionality.”

She added: “There is some serious work we need to look at around arrest rates.”


Comments(32)

MCarey says...
10:34am Fri 25 Jun 10

it doesnt sound that disproportionate to me. ethnic minorities in High Wycombe arent that much of a minority compared to many other areas

catherine_johnson says...
10:52am Fri 25 Jun 10

"Police stop and searches amongst ethnic minorities in High Wycombe are ‘disproportionate
, ......Some 1,700 people from ethnic minorities have been stopped in Wycombe district".

Wycombe has a large ethnic population. 1,700 stop and searches actually seems very few.


“You are stopping a lot of people from black and Asian backgrounds who are not arrested and that leads of grievances.”

So, is the answer to arrest more of them then? Would that make everyone happy?

john_b says...
11:36am Fri 25 Jun 10

Asian and black people aren't really an ethnic minority in Wycombe are they?

300Aylesbury says...
11:48am Fri 25 Jun 10

And her point is what?

pennman says...
11:57am Fri 25 Jun 10

The law needs to be upheld. Innocent people should have nothing to fear as long as there are no 'Gene Hunt's' still in the police force.

sidthesexist says...
12:06pm Fri 25 Jun 10

john_b wrote:
Asian and black people aren't really an ethnic minority in Wycombe are they?
There was a report from WDC stating that if you only count the under 55's they are already the majority in this town. (i.e. it is the pensioners ect that are keeping this town white for at least a generation) however this report seems to have been buried after the BNP used it to point out how immigration is out of control.

john_b says...
12:21pm Fri 25 Jun 10

I hereby declare this entire report, article, and situation a 'non-issue'.

Please return to your lives.

Oh, and if you are white, and get pulled over - please make a complaint on racist grounds.

sparky49 says...
12:24pm Fri 25 Jun 10

Female young graduate making it to Chief Constable !!!!!!!!
Are you a political appointment? have you been to Wycombe and worked the streets? I work with the police in my role and the fact remains most of the people I have to deal with are Black/Asian 18 to 24 and male.
Come out of your ivory tower and see for yourself, do not make PC statements thinking that you are "RIGHT ON".

Majik says...
1:41pm Fri 25 Jun 10

sparky49 is absolutely right. What is the point in the police stopping 70 year old white women just to make sure that they are being "proportionate"!

I would be happy to be stopped and searched by the police every other day if it made the town a safer place. If you've done nothing wrong, what's the problem?

sidthesexist says...
2:35pm Fri 25 Jun 10

Oh what a surprise the BFP has changed the image to make it look like three white policemen are persecuting two of our "ethnic friends"

wonkydonky says...
2:43pm Fri 25 Jun 10

So 1700 people from ethnic minorities were stop and searched. Note they haven't released the number of white people that were subjected to the same. Until they do this how do we know it's been disproportionate to the local population? Wycombe has a much higher % of ethnic minorities than much of the UK. Not being a racist but a realist.

john_b says...
2:56pm Fri 25 Jun 10

The guy in the image needs to pull his trousers up.
Or is he being strip-searched?

frankbutcher says...
3:12pm Fri 25 Jun 10

anybody would think high wycombe is made up only of castlefield and green street the way some people speak of it. this is not southall. it is very similar to reading, oxford and many other towns in the south east.

678 says...
4:14pm Fri 25 Jun 10

...maybe the minorities should stop commiting a disproportionate amount of the crimes?

tom.marlow says...
4:16pm Fri 25 Jun 10

wonkydonky wrote:
So 1700 people from ethnic minorities were stop and searched. Note they haven't released the number of white people that were subjected to the same. Until they do this how do we know it's been disproportionate to the local population? Wycombe has a much higher % of ethnic minorities than much of the UK. Not being a racist but a realist.
take the trouble to have a look at the link and you will find out.
.
actually, its really sloppy reporting, because I think the point is that the proportion of BME stop and searches that led to arrests (i.e. were actually doing something wrong) is lower than for the non BME. Although looking at the table its not just in wycombe.
.
The problem, as those of us who can remember the unrest in Brixton, Tottenham, etc in the 1980s, is that if one group feels that are being disproportionately targeted for stop and search, they get annoyed about it.

Slimster says...
4:18pm Fri 25 Jun 10

678 wrote:
...maybe the minorities should stop commiting a disproportionate amount of the crimes?
This is probably closer to the truth than the politically correct brigade would like to admit.
+
Walk around with your trousers falling down (I think they call it fashion), and you deserve to be stopped and searched ;-)

Arkwright says...
5:30pm Fri 25 Jun 10

sparky49 wrote:
Female young graduate making it to Chief Constable !!!!!!!! Are you a political appointment? have you been to Wycombe and worked the streets? I work with the police in my role and the fact remains most of the people I have to deal with are Black/Asian 18 to 24 and male. Come out of your ivory tower and see for yourself, do not make PC statements thinking that you are "RIGHT ON".
Well not that young - however I wouldn't mind having my collar felt by her, that is if she ever comes out and about..doubtful to say the least!

Arkwright says...
5:31pm Fri 25 Jun 10

sparky49 wrote:
Female young graduate making it to Chief Constable !!!!!!!! Are you a political appointment? have you been to Wycombe and worked the streets? I work with the police in my role and the fact remains most of the people I have to deal with are Black/Asian 18 to 24 and male. Come out of your ivory tower and see for yourself, do not make PC statements thinking that you are "RIGHT ON".
Well not that young - however I wouldn't mind having my collar felt by her, that is if she ever comes out and about..doubtful to say the least!

DocD says...
5:31pm Fri 25 Jun 10

Not only are they disproportionate they are discriminatory. If the Asian & African-Caribbean population is 13% of the total pop and yet 45% are being stop and searched how else can this be interpreted? (BTW majority of crime in TVP area is carried out by white people despite the scaremongering that goes on). From recent figures: overall TVP stop more Asians than any other Police force (bar South Yorkshire) in the country and they are being threatened with legal action on both numbers and types of searches being carried out:


http://www.guardian.
co.uk/law/2010/jun/0
2/police-stop-search
-black-asian

http://www.guardian.
co.uk/uk/2010/jun/10
/anti-terror-law-ill
egal-stop-search

People need to wake up - leafy Wycombe/Bucks doesn't have a 'race' problem it has a racism problem...

chesham20 says...
5:50pm Fri 25 Jun 10

If you don't a bad case of attitude and don't have anything to hide WHAT is the problem. A lot of the "people" that are stopped demand respect. Well you don't just get respect you have to earn it. OK.

678 says...
5:59pm Fri 25 Jun 10

DocD wrote:
Not only are they disproportionate they are discriminatory. If the Asian & African-Caribbean population is 13% of the total pop and yet 45% are being stop and searched how else can this be interpreted? (BTW majority of crime in TVP area is carried out by white people despite the scaremongering that goes on). From recent figures: overall TVP stop more Asians than any other Police force (bar South Yorkshire) in the country and they are being threatened with legal action on both numbers and types of searches being carried out: http://www.guardian. co.uk/law/2010/jun/0 2/police-stop-search -black-asian http://www.guardian. co.uk/uk/2010/jun/10 /anti-terror-law-ill egal-stop-search People need to wake up - leafy Wycombe/Bucks doesn't have a 'race' problem it has a racism problem...
where are your numbers on ethnicity of offenders in wycombe???? They do commit a disproportiante amount of crime

DonkeyWobbler says...
6:11pm Fri 25 Jun 10

Crime is a very loose term. There is no point in including drunk driving, burglary and the like in "crime" when we are talking about stop searching.
The purpose of stop searching is to find drugs, knives, weapons etc.
With that in mind, re-adjust the figures and the "disproportionate" ammount of stoppings, suddenly becomes very proportionate, and if anything needs increasing.... for all ethnic groups including whites.
Although it would be far better to tackle the CAUSE of people feeling the need to carry knives, rather than wait for them to be carrying them and hope you get em before they use them. But how would the police make their money if they did that....

Arkwright says...
7:02pm Fri 25 Jun 10

Looks to me that the nearest copper is trying to buy an eighth!

hondo says...
11:10pm Fri 25 Jun 10

Really; "top people" should stop dwelling on ethnicity.
Evoking the difference only exaccerbates it.
The same law applies to everyone.
In High Wycombe there are NO ethnic minorities unless it is their individual choice, only residents. Perhaps it's time to stop statistically differentiating.
It only perpetuates disharmony.

Voyeur says...
8:53am Sat 26 Jun 10

Perhaps the origins of people who commit crimes is also "disproportinate"?

DocD says...
11:27am Sat 26 Jun 10

'The facts might speak for themselves but some of the victims of those facts no longer speak...'

Join the 2nd anniversary vigil outside HW Police station Saturday 3rd July 4-7pm for Habib 'Paps' Ullah who died during a police stop & search in July 2008

http://justice4paps.
wordpress.com/

678 says...
1:37pm Sat 26 Jun 10

DocD wrote:
'The facts might speak for themselves but some of the victims of those facts no longer speak...' Join the 2nd anniversary vigil outside HW Police station Saturday 3rd July 4-7pm for Habib 'Paps' Ullah who died during a police stop & search in July 2008 http://justice4paps. wordpress.com/
from bucks free website.....
"It heard that Mr Ullah, from Slough, had drug-related convictions and packages of crack cocaine were found in his colon and throat"

...and they were forced to restrain him. Looks like he brought it on himself, my sympathy for him...zero.

Tony5922 says...
8:16am Mon 28 Jun 10

So long as the stop and search is being done for the right reasons then there is no problem. The disproportinate rate can be for a number of factors (age groups, areas of crime). If there is a high percentage of asian/black youth being stopped and the police are stopping them with reasonable suspicion, then this may be something that the ethnic minoroty support groups may want to work on with the help of the police. There are a lot of social pressures on the children of immigrants, particulalry second generation, and they often do badly accademically and socially. If this is the case (and I do not know if it is) blaming the police is not the answer. The rags to riches to rages formula for immigrants is well documented and is a serious danger to the ethnic minorities, a bigger problem than the occasional racist policeman (which I know also exists), and is the greatest challenge facing any ethnic group. From the performance of the second generation British born decenants of Pakistani and West Indian immigrants in school, compared to the first generation who all seem to be doctors and lawyers, this would appear to be a real threat to their community and should be the focus of any community groups who want to help their ethnic group rather than just deal with symptoms. Whether the police are at fault or not, from my observations there is a bigger problem in the communities that only they can address. It would be to the benefit of all of High Wycombe if the second generation British born Pakistani's and West Indian's could adopt the values of the first generation. It is clearly achievable looking at the Jewish and Chinese groups, but will only happen with action by the parents.

Unfortunately, for a lot of the "community organisers", political speaches and external activities are a lot more fun and high profile than dealing with internal problems.

Before anyone calls me racist, please look at some of my other posts.

CBHYC says...
7:31pm Mon 28 Jun 10

The simple fact is that more black and asian young men are stopped and searched in High Wycombe because A) Whilst not all young black and asian men are criminals and exagerated % of the street criminals are young black and asian men. Particularly in areas like Desborough where you would be hard pushed to find a young white man to stop. This is politically correct nonsense. I think most bobbies know who the trouble makers on their patch are and they should be free to give said trouble makers as hard a time as they want.

CBHYC says...
7:37pm Mon 28 Jun 10

Please excuse my spelling mistakes, I posted using an Iphone

bakerbill says...
3:31pm Wed 30 Jun 10

Voyeur wrote:
Perhaps the origins of people who commit crimes is also "disproportinate"?
You are correct Voyeur. Just in case you missed last years BFP story read it here http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/455
2126.Police_action_t
argets_teen_muggers/

About 80 per cent of last year’s robberies were committed by gangs of Asian and afro-Caribbean people .
DC Paul Bowen .
The same is happening in London This article from last Sundays Telegraph .The official figures, which examine the ethnicity of those accused of violent offences in London, suggest the majority of men held responsible by police for gun crimes, robberies and street crimes are black.
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/uknews/c
rime/7856787/Violent
-inner-city-crime-th
e-figures-and-a-ques
tion-of-race.html

MOCOB says...
10:28pm Thu 1 Jul 10

Why don't you get your facts straight: figures from national census 2001:
Wycombe district: All people: 162,000+ OF those: White: 142,000+ Which seems to me to make asian and black people pretty much a minority!

And the figures for Abbey ward in Wycombe, which about covers the twon centre:
Total: 9178. White: 7105.

Despite the racist scaremongers who'd like to convince you otherwise, white people are still the overwealming majority in High Wycombe.


Police need a justifiable reason to stop someone Sara Thornton

File photograph

Chief constable Sara Thornton



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