Stadium: 'Robust' case not made, committee rules (From Bucks Free Press)

"But Leader Cllr Lesley Clarke, Conservative, responded: “I take exception to his word 'flawed' - our officers worked hard and those words were unjust.” .
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(1) Biased survey, without a real "do nothing" option
(2) Majority of ratepayers completely uninformed of proposal
(3) Expedited consultation process of just six weeks instead of the normal twelve weeks
(4) Not all Parish Councils notified
(5) Not all businesses and Clubs in the area informed or involved
(6) A 'focus' group that didn't involve a fair cross-section of local residents
(7) A 'focus' group that somhow had its initial objections redirected by being provided with incorrect information
(8) A series of public forums at which table allocations were predetermined and which resulted in every table having at least one 'plant' to ensure what exactly?
(9) A survey which had no fraud detection/prevention measures and which was subsequently found to have been manipulated with false details being entered
(10) Deliberate withholding of information about the project and the consequences on the local environment
(11) An absence of indicative costs to enable participants to gauge just how much they want to pay to keep a rugby club
(12) A swathe of "aspirations" of sporting desires rather than a proper assessment of genuine needs
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Just how many reasons are required before the consultation can be described as "flawed"?

"Deputy Leader Cllr Tony Green, Conservative, said: “I believe we are being transparent".

Well Cllr Green show us the proof you need a sports village - we know why you need a stadium - private enterprise at taxpayers expense.

Cllr Collingwood seems a very tough chap to overrule; he defended the scrutiny committee's position vigorously last night, albeit in the face of a very lack-lustre performance by the council's trio.
All power to his elbow; the Green Belt and AONB issues look like being, initially at least, the main battle ground and offering the quickest way of getting the proposals cancelled.

"Cllr Clarke said: “We are so far away from a planning application it could be two or three years down the line, we have only been looking at the decision made for the consultation."


So why do the job applications state that everything would be completed by 2014????


This Clarke creature and her cronies are just born LIARS.

And lets hope by May 7th you are seeking job seekers allowance, you aint getting my vote ever again.

gpn01 wrote:
"But Leader Cllr Lesley Clarke, Conservative, responded: “I take exception to his word 'flawed' - our officers worked hard and those words were unjust.” . . (1) Biased survey, without a real "do nothing" option (2) Majority of ratepayers completely uninformed of proposal (3) Expedited consultation process of just six weeks instead of the normal twelve weeks (4) Not all Parish Councils notified (5) Not all businesses and Clubs in the area informed or involved (6) A 'focus' group that didn't involve a fair cross-section of local residents (7) A 'focus' group that somhow had its initial objections redirected by being provided with incorrect information (8) A series of public forums at which table allocations were predetermined and which resulted in every table having at least one 'plant' to ensure what exactly? (9) A survey which had no fraud detection/prevention measures and which was subsequently found to have been manipulated with false details being entered (10) Deliberate withholding of information about the project and the consequences on the local environment (11) An absence of indicative costs to enable participants to gauge just how much they want to pay to keep a rugby club (12) A swathe of "aspirations" of sporting desires rather than a proper assessment of genuine needs . Just how many reasons are required before the consultation can be described as "flawed"?

WOW!
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The parcel has been passed to Clr T Green however, and he has been selected to fall on his sword. I have no idea why Lesley has been protected, since such ineptitude as last night's performance would have the voters leaving the theatre in droves.
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By the way - good honest reporting.

Well said gpn01!

All for a bargain price of £308,000.

Some Councillors are seeing sense at last ,and starting to listen to the people that vote them in.

For once I must say "thank you" to the BFP for quite a full report here. However, I stick by my previous assertions that they let a lot go on under reported and unquestioned in the past. Please don't fall back to your old ways.

yeah

sense at last

may this stadium end in a quick, painful, job losing death

let the people of this town vote yes or no the council wont risk it as your find 90% of the people dont want it! what is wrong with the ground they got? why waste our council tax on this dead duck we people are finding the cost of liveing going though the roof ,that tells me the council are taken the p out of us hard working people

I don't think we shoudl get too excited yet. All that the Scrutiny Committee has demanded is that the Council's Cabinet revisits their previous decision to go forward with the stadium proposals. There is nothing whatever to stop the Cabinet (led by the infamous Clarke and Green) doing what they have been told - i.e. having a bit of a think about the plans, and provide more detail about how it would be achieved - and then coming back and saying: "We've thought about it - and we're still going ahead - here's some extra detail about how we're going to push on and do it"! I wouldn't be surprised if they don't try to keep such news until after the May elections - hoping that we'll all have breathed a sigh of relief and carried on voting Conservative in the meantime!

Great result last night. Alex Collingwood was superb and to be commended on the chairing of the debate and his ability to make sense of the various comments . Surely he will be the next future leader of the council. This was the first time I have heard Lesley Clarke speak publicly and was extremely dissapointed. She can hardly put together a cohesive argument and deserved some of negative feedback she received from the commission when not being able to answer simple questions. I am amazed that she has risen to the level of authority that she has achieved. She had the public gallery rolling with laughter at times. Not with her but at her! This story has a long way to go yet and whilst last night was a positive outcome we can not ease off the pressure on any of the council members.

A question, i'm not going to say IF, but hopefully WHEN they lose in May, what will happen, can they still carry on with this farce or not?

miccles wrote:
A question, i'm not going to say IF, but hopefully WHEN they lose in May, what will happen, can they still carry on with this farce or not?

Anything can be reversed at any time, if there is the will to do it.

It strikes me that if Lesley Clarke and Tony Green cannot see how the whole thing is flawed, then how can they be expected to run a district council?
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I do think that Clarke is partially correct when she says that there is a long time to go, and I think that she thinks that all these "problems" will be sorted as they go along.
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However, it seems that the Hayes camp think that everything is a done deal, hence the job adverts "for completion in 2014". He obviously is under the impression that Clark and Green can ultimately deliver this nice little windfall for him.
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I wonder if Hayes would be quite so keen if part of the deal was for a minimum 20 year rental for Wasps/WW share of the ground. Probably not.
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There is talk of purchasing/renting Loftus Road in Shepherds Bush if QPR get to move to a new stadium on the site of the BBC Television centre. (A more modern TV centre having already been built on the site of the old White City stadium.
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What will happen if Hayes decides to move Wasps back into somewhere in London if the opportunity arises?
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Not only is this morally wrong - tearing up the greenbelt - but is a very big gamble on Wasps and WW staying in the area. Without Wasps, WW will be ditched and go into freefall, maybe even go out of business altogether.

Deputy Leader Cllr Tony Green, Conservative, said: “I believe we are being transparent".

“A number of members are jumping ahead.

"We realise we have still got a long way to go before we are talking about planning applications and building stadiums, it's a process with many stages,” he said.

Which is why the jobs being advertised are to complete the project by 2014. So Tony, who is lying, you or Steve Hayes?

Yes let us not get too excited - The job advert does say completion by 2014

Does this mean they (WDC/Hayes) are working to different agendas?

Does this mean WDC are misleading us?

Does this mean the Left hand and the right do not know what either one is doing?

I can pee into a force 10 gale further than I trust these guys!

So Leslie Clarke defended Her position on the consultation process, She knows as well as every one else, the consultation was designed to be abused. If the consultation had been restricted to local residents as it should have been the result would have been completely different. She said her officers worked very hard, I'm sure they did,they rejected the fair and proper way to run a consultation and chose one that they knew could be cheated, and cheated it was! How could the result stand when they knew the rugby spectators had been handed The consultation forms complete with instructions on how to complete them in favour of Booker as the prefered site? The cheats even had a similar scam working with the university students. Clarke then said nothing else had been planned and only the naming of Booker as the prefered site had been decided, so if we are to believe her the Cabinet decision to go forward was based on a cheated consultation that was drawn up on her instructions to her officers.
The truth of the matter is the facts that I have just related are now well known and understood by everyone concerned.
I think councillor Jones had it right, when she said the consultation was deeply flawed and that it should not count. She said it was for local people to decide not those from all over the country. Clarke looked guilty and furtive as indeed she should.
The calling in was right and proper and the tide has now turned. As for Leslie Clarke? she has been left with Tony Green and Gerry Unsworth sitting on the beach waiting to be washed away, they are certainly in deep water.

If Hayes loses this one , he will without doubt ditch Wanderers and move out to green pastures new.
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Councillor Clarke has staked her reputation on this project (amongst other fiascoes) and deserves to go down with the ship. Wriggling Slithy Tove Cllr Green is not even worth mention (oops I just did).
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Their snivelling, sniggering cronies hiding behind their (very generous) backs also deserve the contempt of the electorate. But will the people of Wycombe and District remember who they are ?
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If they come to your door in May looking for your vote - ask them and see if you get a straight answer. Their past history shows that they incapable of speaking the truth - no more than Count Dracula could wear a crucifix.
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A Moral Cowardice badge for Services to Deviousness is what they tend to wear. Watch out , there may be one living in Your Neighbourhood.

Sometimes you just have to be there.
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It was like a slow motion car crash. As it happened the committee is to be commended for inviting the leader and deputy leader to expose themselves for the facile inadequates that we have voted into power.

Last week the BFP Headsline was " THE DAY OUR DEMOCRACY DIED"

Will Friday's Headline read
" THE DAY IT WAS REBORN"

Hazlemerelady wrote:
Some Councillors are seeing sense at last ,and starting to listen to the people that vote them in.

I note that an Independent councillor has stood by the people and common sense, unlike many of the politically elected sheep. Is this the way to vote at the election in May?

J B Blackett wrote:
If Hayes loses this one , he will without doubt ditch Wanderers and move out to green pastures new. . Councillor Clarke has staked her reputation on this project (amongst other fiascoes) and deserves to go down with the ship. Wriggling Slithy Tove Cllr Green is not even worth mention (oops I just did). . Their snivelling, sniggering cronies hiding behind their (very generous) backs also deserve the contempt of the electorate. But will the people of Wycombe and District remember who they are ? . If they come to your door in May looking for your vote - ask them and see if you get a straight answer. Their past history shows that they incapable of speaking the truth - no more than Count Dracula could wear a crucifix. . A Moral Cowardice badge for Services to Deviousness is what they tend to wear. Watch out , there may be one living in Your Neighbourhood.

Careful, JBB. I am warming to you.

We need to remember we live in a Conservative area, singing a song of hate for all Conservative Councillors won't change anything, in fact it will do more harm than good. Over the last few weeks a growing number of Conservative Councillors have spoken out against the airfield developement, they are to be comended. Remember it is Conservative National policy to preserve the green belt. As week follows week more will join the ranks of of the enlightened, Clarke and Green will become more and more isolated. As this developes we must name and encourage the Councillors who support us and at the same time heap derision and scorn on the likes of Clarke and Green who we can then vote out of office.

You mean like our local MP , Mr Baker , who won't 'get involved' because it is a 'local issue' What ? Did the Raving Loony Party candidate get in in Wycombe. ?
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Was he called Baker as well and a lot of people put a cross in the wrong box ?
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He doesn't appear to be a Conservative and Defender of the Green Space. More like a Preservative and Defender of His Own Space. We deserve better that this almost silent no-opinion ineffective MP ; in whose interests is he serving Wycombe and District ? I dread to think.

libelle wrote:
We need to remember we live in a Conservative area, singing a song of hate for all Conservative Councillors won't change anything, in fact it will do more harm than good. Over the last few weeks a growing number of Conservative Councillors have spoken out against the airfield developement, they are to be comended. Remember it is Conservative National policy to preserve the green belt. As week follows week more will join the ranks of of the enlightened, Clarke and Green will become more and more isolated. As this developes we must name and encourage the Councillors who support us and at the same time heap derision and scorn on the likes of Clarke and Green who we can then vote out of office.

It is the Conservatives local policy to protect the Green belt!!

"we will continue to protect the Green Belt and AONB and will resist inappropriate development of any kind"

This is a quote from their election leaflets from the last District Council Elections in 2007

I am over the valley, Bucks resident.

Read all the reports

Strong case, IMO, for sacking James Nadal, chief reporter.

Late with news.
Nauseatingly deferential to civics.

Who pays him?

Nice explanatory lunches recently?

Quality of reporting is an issue.
s/w: term-over

Ref above:
Within your catchment area, BFP, try check on sleepy Amersham.

Where 20-plus Chiltern District Council planners, full time, full pay, fully supervised, environmentally deployed by jobsworth supervisors, should you wish to build a rabbit-hutch in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty.
Happy we are, indeed in Chiltern District Council's ambit.
Absolutely no question of funny business going on in Amersham.
Chief executive is exemplary. Salary + benefits undisclosed.

Local press has been fixed, perhaps on other things..
Low profile from CDC CEO. Is the salary also low for an aggrandised Town Clerk?

Amersham was a Rotten Borough.

Chiltern is a Rotten District Council. Bloated.

Ask the time of day in CDC reception, - wait for the 'Teams' to help you, including resident eunuch.
Rooms to let at Chiltern District Council.

Hughenden arrogance seems to have been sorted.
Very well done to the objectors.
Wycombe stadium rubbish seems to have been checked.
Good luck to the indefatigable checkers.

Miles away
Amersham remains smarmy, counts the revenues, bloats Bensheim twaddle (twin town).
Shifty rule in this area.
Chief Executive Officer Chiltern District Council elusive.Overpaid.
Anyone remember his name?
You Wycombe lot, do run on and on, naming dodge-pots locally and politically.

Living and rate-paying Bucks County Council, and the much-acclaimed Thames Valley Police are ... totally exonerated from any aspersions.
Fine lot, TVP, Lions, Rotary, Freemasons. Helping the community.

My arse.

Ref above:
Within your catchment area, BFP, try check on sleepy Amersham.

Where 20-plus Chiltern District Council planners, full time, full pay, fully supervised, environmentally deployed by jobsworth supervisors, should you wish to build a rabbit-hutch in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty.
Happy we are, indeed in Chiltern District Council's ambit.
Absolutely no question of funny business going on in Amersham.
Chief executive is exemplary. Salary + benefits undisclosed.

Local press has been fixed, perhaps on other things..
Low profile from CDC CEO. Is the salary also low for an aggrandised Town Clerk?
You readership stopped the Hughenden horse-mouth, [put on a course how tom behavewehope it will stop

Amersham was a Rotten Borough.

Chiltern is a Rotten District Council. Bloated.

Ask the time of day in CDC reception, - wait for the 'Teams' to help you, including resident eunuch.
Rooms to let at Chiltern District Council.

Hughenden arrogance seems to have been sorted.
Very well done to the objectors.
Wycombe stadium rubbish seems to have been checked.
Good luck to the indefatigable checkers.

Miles away
Amersham remains smarmy, counts the revenues, bloats Bensheim twaddle (twin town).
Shifty rule in this area.
Chief Executive Officer Chiltern District Council elusive.Overpaid.
Anyone remember his name?
You Wycombe lot, do run on and on, naming dodge-pots locally and politically.

Living and rate-paying Bucks County Council, and the much-acclaimed Thames Valley Police are ... totally exonerated from any aspersions.
Fine lot, TVP, Lions, Rotary, Freemasons. Helping the community.

My arse.#

At Chiltern District Council, there is a CEO to be chucked out.

The scandal will be his chuck-out emoluments, paid for the invisible but well rewarded man.

Minister Pickles - please sort through a few fat Tories in Bucks, too.

We are not burning cars in Amersham yet.
Many subversives on local forum.
Please ask Thames Valley Police for accurate information.
That will be as good as Bucks Free Press reports, if not verbatim TVP.

Some reporters very good on this paper. Some cringingly bad. Again and again.

Editor, silently, watching (after a jolly good lunch with the bank)

Such fun !

s/w boat-show

Large Pimms for Mr Cohen

We are not burning cars in Amersham yet.
Many subversives on local forum.
Please ask Thames Valley Police for accurate information.
That will be as good as Bucks Free Press reports, if not verbatim TVP.

Some reporters very good on this paper. Some cringingly bad. Again and again.

Editor, silently, watching (after a jolly good lunch with the bank)

Such fun !

s/w boat-show

Large Pimms for Mr Cohen

libelle wrote:
We need to remember we live in a Conservative area, singing a song of hate for all Conservative Councillors won't change anything, in fact it will do more harm than good. Over the last few weeks a growing number of Conservative Councillors have spoken out against the airfield developement, they are to be comended. Remember it is Conservative National policy to preserve the green belt. As week follows week more will join the ranks of of the enlightened, Clarke and Green will become more and more isolated. As this developes we must name and encourage the Councillors who support us and at the same time heap derision and scorn on the likes of Clarke and Green who we can then vote out of office.

libelle, are you the Tory Party agent or what???
Please don't try to sell us this rubbish.
1/. It was the Tory councill who started the stadium going with no dissention in the councillor ranks.
2/. All those loyal councillors said exactly nothing publicly whilst Lane End/ Booker/ Marlow Bottom protested at the grotesque infringement of Green Belt.
3/. Only when it gets very close to elctions in May do one or two bother to speak out, mainly those most in danger of losing their seats so in effect they have nothing to lose anyway.
4/. This proves the lost of them are only in it for what they can get for themselves and don't care a jot about those they are supposed to represent.
Throw the stinking rotten lot of them out and start afresh.

Correspondent said:
Throw the stinking lot of them out and start afresh.

I could not agree more.

WDC, CDC, ATC

Got your pensions ready before you are shot,sorry,fired?

Thought so. Many happy deliveries and outcomes ongoing at this moment in time.

Never happens.

Our Easter Supplement Will Highlight Beautiful Bucks.

I've spoken to a number of both lib-dem and tory councillors in recent weeks who are totally opposed to these plans. It might be better to fight this on more of a "ratepayers alliance" platform than one of party politics, in order to maximise the opposition to such a damaging proposition.
Dividing opposition is the most effective way of winning a battle so we don't want them to do that, do we?

OK I am not in favour of the stadium either, bu trfrom reading this I see a lot of people who should be applying to be on the voting slips in May.

Anyone ???

severnside wrote:

libelle wrote: We need to remember we live in a Conservative area, singing a song of hate for all Conservative Councillors won't change anything, in fact it will do more harm than good. Over the last few weeks a growing number of Conservative Councillors have spoken out against the airfield developement, they are to be comended. Remember it is Conservative National policy to preserve the green belt. As week follows week more will join the ranks of of the enlightened, Clarke and Green will become more and more isolated. As this developes we must name and encourage the Councillors who support us and at the same time heap derision and scorn on the likes of Clarke and Green who we can then vote out of office.

libelle, are you the Tory Party agent or what??? Please don't try to sell us this rubbish. 1/. It was the Tory councill who started the stadium going with no dissention in the councillor ranks. 2/. All those loyal councillors said exactly nothing publicly whilst Lane End/ Booker/ Marlow Bottom protested at the grotesque infringement of Green Belt. 3/. Only when it gets very close to elctions in May do one or two bother to speak out, mainly those most in danger of losing their seats so in effect they have nothing to lose anyway. 4/. This proves the lost of them are only in it for what they can get for themselves and don't care a jot about those they are supposed to represent. Throw the stinking rotten lot of them out and start afresh.

Couldn't agree more Sevenside! the grusome twosome cannot be trusted in anyway shape or form, they are in it for what they can get out of it and to pot with anyone or anything that stands in their way. Another good reason for going to unitary council! think of the monies that could be saved if the grusome twosome and some were removed from office and they had to join the ranks of the unemployed. People of High Wycombe please turn out in droves and vote with your feet to get trustworthy people who are prepared to listen to the voice of the local people and deal openly and transparently. Roll on May, so we can put them out!

Snowcap wrote:

severnside wrote:

libelle wrote: We need to remember we live in a Conservative area, singing a song of hate for all Conservative Councillors won't change anything, in fact it will do more harm than good. Over the last few weeks a growing number of Conservative Councillors have spoken out against the airfield developement, they are to be comended. Remember it is Conservative National policy to preserve the green belt. As week follows week more will join the ranks of of the enlightened, Clarke and Green will become more and more isolated. As this developes we must name and encourage the Councillors who support us and at the same time heap derision and scorn on the likes of Clarke and Green who we can then vote out of office.

libelle, are you the Tory Party agent or what??? Please don't try to sell us this rubbish. 1/. It was the Tory councill who started the stadium going with no dissention in the councillor ranks. 2/. All those loyal councillors said exactly nothing publicly whilst Lane End/ Booker/ Marlow Bottom protested at the grotesque infringement of Green Belt. 3/. Only when it gets very close to elctions in May do one or two bother to speak out, mainly those most in danger of losing their seats so in effect they have nothing to lose anyway. 4/. This proves the lost of them are only in it for what they can get for themselves and don't care a jot about those they are supposed to represent. Throw the stinking rotten lot of them out and start afresh.

Couldn't agree more Sevenside! the grusome twosome cannot be trusted in anyway shape or form, they are in it for what they can get out of it and to pot with anyone or anything that stands in their way. Another good reason for going to unitary council! think of the monies that could be saved if the grusome twosome and some were removed from office and they had to join the ranks of the unemployed. People of High Wycombe please turn out in droves and vote with your feet to get trustworthy people who are prepared to listen to the voice of the local people and deal openly and transparently. Roll on May, so we can put them out!

Removing the gruesome twosome etc. for a unitary council may not necessarily solve the problem.
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You will find that a number of councillors are duplicitous.
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There - and I thought that meant they served on two or more councils.

Come on children no fighting please.
We have a fight on our hands as it is. The important thing is to stop the green belt being developed. Severnside might hate all tories but he won't win any friends by insulting decent people. As for being the Tory agent "libelle" is in fact a socialist and I don't mean wishy washy new labour iether.
as to the comments about the Tories planning to build in the green belt, all the evedence sugests the airfield development has been in the planning stage for the last five years and I would wager it was dreamed up by an unscrupulous person with a position of power from the airfield, add a third party and mix a couple of council employees, put the whole lot in a blender with a couple of well known Councillors. sprincle in a pinch of multi million poud rugby club owner and let it stand and there you have it. But that's only my guess of course.

So come on Severnside get the knife out of my back and get stuck in, we need sensible people making sensible comments, enough said.

That dreadful woman should do a Caroline Spelman. NOW!!!.

libelle wrote:
Come on children no fighting please. We have a fight on our hands as it is. The important thing is to stop the green belt being developed. Severnside might hate all tories but he won't win any friends by insulting decent people. As for being the Tory agent "libelle" is in fact a socialist and I don't mean wishy washy new labour iether. as to the comments about the Tories planning to build in the green belt, all the evedence sugests the airfield development has been in the planning stage for the last five years and I would wager it was dreamed up by an unscrupulous person with a position of power from the airfield, add a third party and mix a couple of council employees, put the whole lot in a blender with a couple of well known Councillors. sprincle in a pinch of multi million poud rugby club owner and let it stand and there you have it. But that's only my guess of course. So come on Severnside get the knife out of my back and get stuck in, we need sensible people making sensible comments, enough said.

libelle, there is NO knife in your back, I am merely pointing out the obvious- that you are sticking up for the oiks who have landed us in this mess, and those cllrs that have stood by quietly but may well speak up against nearer election time are as bad if not worse. At least Clarke and Co had the balls to stand up and say what they think.
And your name libelle and its explanation? Mine is severnside, doesn't mean I live by the river Severn does it?

A Libelle is a dragonfly, they catch things on the wing and eat them alive!
I don't know what a Severnside is but I assume you have seven sides to your character, clearly each one hates the Tories, but remember this, wars always end with a diplomatic settlement.

I will leave it to your future neutral comments then...

QUOTE from above]]

'As for Leslie Clarke? she has been left with Tony Green and Gerry Unsworth sitting on the beach waiting to be washed away....'

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Comment

Would that they were sitting on the bleach instead, well overnight.

Around the hidden bends where no brush can reach.

Michael, HP7

Michael, HP7 wrote:
QUOTE from above]] 'As for Leslie Clarke? she has been left with Tony Green and Gerry Unsworth sitting on the beach waiting to be washed away....' ___ Comment Would that they were sitting on the bleach instead, well overnight. Around the hidden bends where no brush can reach. Michael, HP7

Cllr Clarke has announced that the chalice (poisoned or otherwise) is being handed to Cllr Tony Green.

Cllr Tony Green - who he?
Apart from deputy top tory figurehead at Wycombe District Council.
Any, err, previous?
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Any, err, current form?

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Err, who he?
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All the thankful local tax-payers would welcome a thumbnail bio of this geezer.
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Did he have a previous existence?
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Much lauded in his field?

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Answers on a pin-head?

Michael, HP7