Stadium project axed (From Bucks Free Press)

blues chick wrote:
This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

blues chick wrote:
This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

LMFAOBFEagain wrote:
Looks like the usual "Not In My Backyard" brigade bullied the council into a poor decision. The proposal may not have been the best one possible; however, the rationale for rejecting it is complete rubbish. It's an airfield for heaven's sake not old growth forest! Get some perspective people. I think a nice big wind farm should be next on the agenda; anything really, to lower the house prices of those tired old middle-class whiners. Never have so many been so screwed by so few.

lfc963 wrote:
Well done WDC for signing the death warrant for the town of High Wycombe and its future social and economic development.
The stigma of Backwards Bucks still holds true.

An opportunity for a centre of excellance that would provide first class facilities to both support the development of local sporting potential and attract national sporting personalities and teams to the region who would act as an inspiration to our youth.

Now lost are the economic benefits to the region during the planning and the construction of the project which would have led to wealth creation for local tradesmen,suppliers,

retail etc etc and vitally needed local employment opportunities on the completion of the project

WDC - Hang your head in shame

What other town would have missed such a wonderful opportunity for development.

redspellsdanger wrote:

lfc963 wrote:
Well done WDC for signing the death warrant for the town of High Wycombe and its future social and economic development.
The stigma of Backwards Bucks still holds true.

An opportunity for a centre of excellance that would provide first class facilities to both support the development of local sporting potential and attract national sporting personalities and teams to the region who would act as an inspiration to our youth.

Now lost are the economic benefits to the region during the planning and the construction of the project which would have led to wealth creation for local tradesmen,suppliers,


retail etc etc and vitally needed local employment opportunities on the completion of the project

WDC - Hang your head in shame

What other town would have missed such a wonderful opportunity for development.

I couldn't agree more. I followed the debate on BFP website and am staggered that most protestors have such limited vision. This vote this evening by only 4 Councillors has consigned Wycombe as a town to a future struggle. We already have high unemployment and killing this sort of project will not bring us the inward investment we so desperately need. All the Ninbys who do not live in the Town will be well satisfied. Shame that a balanced view was not put forward by those who represent us. They have no vision for the future - btw, nothing to do with WWFC or WASPs, we need this sort of flagship project to get our local economy going.

blues chick wrote:
This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

redspellsdanger wrote:

lfc963 wrote:
Well done WDC for signing the death warrant for the town of High Wycombe and its future social and economic development.
The stigma of Backwards Bucks still holds true.

An opportunity for a centre of excellance that would provide first class facilities to both support the development of local sporting potential and attract national sporting personalities and teams to the region who would act as an inspiration to our youth.

Now lost are the economic benefits to the region during the planning and the construction of the project which would have led to wealth creation for local tradesmen,suppliers,


retail etc etc and vitally needed local employment opportunities on the completion of the project

WDC - Hang your head in shame

What other town would have missed such a wonderful opportunity for development.

I couldn't agree more. I followed the debate on BFP website and am staggered that most protestors have such limited vision. This vote this evening by only 4 Councillors has consigned Wycombe as a town to a future struggle. We already have high unemployment and killing this sort of project will not bring us the inward investment we so desperately need. All the Ninbys who do not live in the Town will be well satisfied. Shame that a balanced view was not put forward by those who represent us. They have no vision for the future - btw, nothing to do with WWFC or WASPs, we need this sort of flagship project to get our local economy going.

Marlow_AP wrote:

blues chick wrote:
This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Completely agree. Steve Hayes please be safe in the knowledge that some local people could see the positive benefits to the area of what you were trying to achieve. GASP were a loud opposition. Just a shame fewer pro-stadium people could not vocalise their support more loudly. Nasty forum comments from GASP sometimes. Very disappointed.

Lane End Man wrote:

redspellsdanger wrote:

lfc963 wrote:
Well done WDC for signing the death warrant for the town of High Wycombe and its future social and economic development.
The stigma of Backwards Bucks still holds true.

An opportunity for a centre of excellance that would provide first class facilities to both support the development of local sporting potential and attract national sporting personalities and teams to the region who would act as an inspiration to our youth.

Now lost are the economic benefits to the region during the planning and the construction of the project which would have led to wealth creation for local tradesmen,suppliers,



retail etc etc and vitally needed local employment opportunities on the completion of the project

WDC - Hang your head in shame

What other town would have missed such a wonderful opportunity for development.

I couldn't agree more. I followed the debate on BFP website and am staggered that most protestors have such limited vision. This vote this evening by only 4 Councillors has consigned Wycombe as a town to a future struggle. We already have high unemployment and killing this sort of project will not bring us the inward investment we so desperately need. All the Ninbys who do not live in the Town will be well satisfied. Shame that a balanced view was not put forward by those who represent us. They have no vision for the future - btw, nothing to do with WWFC or WASPs, we need this sort of flagship project to get our local economy going.

I cant remember the local economy having a massive upsurge the last time WWFC moved to a new ground!

making new office units etc iss all well and good if you can fill them, there are offices and industrial units all over wycombe and Marlow that are epmty and have been so for a long time, making a new industrial / office area will not make new companies move in, it will just move them from where they are now, so the number of people employed will stay the same, it will not rise.

and would you seriously want to live in one of the new houses? your weekends will be hell, you will not be able to park outside your own houses as the designer of the plans did not put no where near enough parking for a matchday.

a good decision by WDC, let WWFC / Wasps / Steve Hayes sort out a new access road for the ground now, then he can build his new stand(s) and up the capatcity to 17,500 he says he requires and everyone will be happy.

all except the WWFC / Wasps fans that the previous WDC councillers found.

blues chick wrote:
Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

BOOKERite wrote:
Why did Clive Harris not declare his interest as a member of the Ex Wasps Players Club, and especially considering the links on his company website to Wasps. Also why did he remain in the Council chamber?

bayriver wrote:

blues chick wrote: Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

By the way when wwfc were a conference side they used to get in excess of 6000 supporters on a regular basis and often a lot more !! Now they struggle to get 4700 for a top of the table clash ! Why do you think this is, im afraid mr beeks has sold out to a bully who has sh*t on people for far too long. As has been mentioned wwfc survived for a very long time befors SH and will survive long after him. He has driven the club into massive debts, then held everyone associated with the club to ransom to get sole ownership !! Nice man, its what divs like him do best, after all he is just a glorified loan shark ! R.I.P Mr Hayes........

Marlow_AP wrote:

blues chick wrote: This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Completely agree. Steve Hayes please be safe in the knowledge that some local people could see the positive benefits to the area of what you were trying to achieve. GASP were a loud opposition. Just a shame fewer pro-stadium people could not vocalise their support more loudly. Nasty forum comments from GASP sometimes. Very disappointed.

redspellsdanger wrote:

BOOKERite wrote:
Why did Clive Harris not declare his interest as a member of the Ex Wasps Players Club, and especially considering the links on his company website to Wasps. Also why did he remain in the Council chamber?

Why should Cllr Harriss declare his alledged interest when I understand he did not speak or vote? Why did Cllr Collingwood speak and vote when he has clearly been against the project from the beginning?

Gerry47 wrote:

bayriver wrote:

blues chick wrote: Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

By the way when wwfc were a conference side they used to get in excess of 6000 supporters on a regular basis and often a lot more !! Now they struggle to get 4700 for a top of the table clash ! Why do you think this is, im afraid mr beeks has sold out to a bully who has sh*t on people for far too long. As has been mentioned wwfc survived for a very long time befors SH and will survive long after him. He has driven the club into massive debts, then held everyone associated with the club to ransom to get sole ownership !! Nice man, its what divs like him do best, after all he is just a glorified loan shark ! R.I.P Mr Hayes........

Bayriver, "By the way when wwfc were a conference side they used to get in excess of 6000 supporters on a regular basis and often a lot more !! " Take your rose tinted specs off ! WWFC used to get 2500-3000 in the conference, which was usually the top attendance for any Conference match, I remember the next highest attendance was something like 600. However, they did run at a small profit. When WWFC entered the football league they were the only league club without any debt,and making a small profit. The ground share with Wasps was to cover the modest losses being accrued by 2002. But then Hayes got his hands on things and now WWFC make losses of 1.5million/year, even with rental from Wasps. Clubs like Exeter and Yeovil play in league 1 with smaller crowds than Wycombe and still manage to make a small profit.

Monte Cristo wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

blues chick wrote: This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Completely agree. Steve Hayes please be safe in the knowledge that some local people could see the positive benefits to the area of what you were trying to achieve. GASP were a loud opposition. Just a shame fewer pro-stadium people could not vocalise their support more loudly. Nasty forum comments from GASP sometimes. Very disappointed.

Quite a few people could see what he was trying to achieve. and by and large very laudable it was too.
However, if it fails to overcome the green belt policy that is not the opponents fault, is it? If it does not stack up financially that is not the opponents fault either, is it? If its location displaces other sports, that is not the opponents fault either is it?
So don't assume all of the opponents are Luddites. They may have wanted to see a scheme that was viable, adhered to government policy, and was in a suitable location.
This simply was not it, and it was rightly quashed. If Mr Hayes is so altruistic, he'll go back to the drawing board and come up with a more viable plan. If he does so, then people will rightly support him.

Monte Cristo wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

blues chick wrote: This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Completely agree. Steve Hayes please be safe in the knowledge that some local people could see the positive benefits to the area of what you were trying to achieve. GASP were a loud opposition. Just a shame fewer pro-stadium people could not vocalise their support more loudly. Nasty forum comments from GASP sometimes. Very disappointed.

Quite a few people could see what he was trying to achieve. and by and large very laudable it was too.
However, if it fails to overcome the green belt policy that is not the opponents fault, is it? If it does not stack up financially that is not the opponents fault either, is it? If its location displaces other sports, that is not the opponents fault either is it?
So don't assume all of the opponents are Luddites. They may have wanted to see a scheme that was viable, adhered to government policy, and was in a suitable location.
This simply was not it, and it was rightly quashed. If Mr Hayes is so altruistic, he'll go back to the drawing board and come up with a more viable plan. If he does so, then people will rightly support him.

Monte Cristo wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

blues chick wrote: This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Completely agree. Steve Hayes please be safe in the knowledge that some local people could see the positive benefits to the area of what you were trying to achieve. GASP were a loud opposition. Just a shame fewer pro-stadium people could not vocalise their support more loudly. Nasty forum comments from GASP sometimes. Very disappointed.

Quite a few people could see what he was trying to achieve. and by and large very laudable it was too. However, if it fails to overcome the green belt policy that is not the opponents fault, is it? If it does not stack up financially that is not the opponents fault either, is it? If its location displaces other sports, that is not the opponents fault either is it? So don't assume all of the opponents are Luddites. They may have wanted to see a scheme that was viable, adhered to government policy, and was in a suitable location. This simply was not it, and it was rightly quashed. If Mr Hayes is so altruistic, he'll go back to the drawing board and come up with a more viable plan. If he does so, then people will rightly support him.

M40 wrote:
Maybe now the Airport will pay the going rent for the space they have enjoyed on the cheap all those years. Years when council tax payers have and still are paying over the top because of Wycombe District Councils errors of allowing them DECADES on an excessively low rent.
Heathrow Airport will have the biggest smile in the morning, they know the Airport will not be in a position to pay the rent the site should demand.
When Booker Airport closes their airspace will be used by Heathrow, NO marches will stop that.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

zwizz wrote:
Well done, a victory for common sense and democracy for once! Well done to GASP for all their organising efforts. And also victory for those wanting a better Handy Cross Sports Complex; you may yet get one. Let's hope that a decent long-term future for recreational flying at Booker can now be assured, for as far into the future as it's already been there, and that's over seventy years. And well done to BFP for the "live" feed tonight, very helpful in the overflow room.

blues chick wrote:
Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

pault34 wrote:

blues chick wrote:
Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

Well said Blues Chick. Some of us have to work but the likes of Ivor et al just meander round town moaning. At least when they have got their way and WWFC are gone they can return to buying Chelsea tickets and merchandise without any guilt...

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
Anyway no need to post about this rubbish any more!

pault34 wrote:

zwizz wrote: Well done, a victory for common sense and democracy for once! Well done to GASP for all their organising efforts. And also victory for those wanting a better Handy Cross Sports Complex; you may yet get one. Let's hope that a decent long-term future for recreational flying at Booker can now be assured, for as far into the future as it's already been there, and that's over seventy years. And well done to BFP for the "live" feed tonight, very helpful in the overflow room.

Who cares about recreational flying apart from a couple of rich blokes. This is a bad decision made by a sport hating town. For sport hating replace with obese/exercise dodgers....

zwizz wrote:
Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

blues chick wrote:
This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote: Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote:
Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see

ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

NicM wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote: Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

Since when were 3,000 football supporters and 7,000 rugby supporters (most of whom come from out of town) the majority? You obviously feel passionate about your pastime but need to understand that most other people don't. BTW if the stadium had been proposed at a different (non-greenbelt) site, had not impacted adversely on the airfield, had been funded entirely by the clubs rather than using £31m of taxpayers assets and not saddled the people of Wycombe to ongoing debt due to a full-of-holes business case I wouldn't object.

tansyw wrote:
I've just done a little on-line research:

Cost of one-to-one tuition: (and since gliding by the very nature of the sport is on a one-to-one basis, this has to be compared to one-to-one tuition costs)

French: £25 per hour (local tutor)
Tennis: £50 per hour (Tennis Angels)
Gliding: £40.00 – taken from Booker 5 day course cost –and is based on 14 flights plus one hour in the motor glider + ground school, text book. Also Includes 3 months club membership. So you can continue flying at club member's rates after your course.

If you go for the Get to Solo course - cost of £1995.00 this includes 12 months club membership and assumes 56 glider flights plus motor glider flights. So equates to around £35.62 per flight.

Sorry but it doesn’t seem to me that gliding is in a different league to a lot of other tuition in the area. And I understand there’s also a cadet scheme for youngsters - so different rates apply - and get a good lot of exercise on the airfield helping with the operation of the gliding club!

Wendoverman wrote:
Some of the pro-stadium comments on here are slightly bizarre. So Wycombe will wither and die because this does not go ahead and the football fans who have opposed this plan are sport-haters? Both are quite ridiculous. This plan had nothing to do with improving anything for wycombites and everything to do with making money for vested interests. London Wasps are...well London Wasps...if Adams Park ain't big enough, get SH to build you a nice stadium in...er...London. He could have formulated a plan with the council to improve access and facilities at AP...but there's no opportunity for massive profits in property development there is there? This was a white elephant and most people recognised it as such.

J B Blackett wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote: Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

You appear to be a disappointed (bitter ?) stadium supporter but please - do a little bit of research before blogging 'facts'. Thank you

Edgar Brooks wrote:

pault34 wrote:

zwizz wrote: Well done, a victory for common sense and democracy for once! Well done to GASP for all their organising efforts. And also victory for those wanting a better Handy Cross Sports Complex; you may yet get one. Let's hope that a decent long-term future for recreational flying at Booker can now be assured, for as far into the future as it's already been there, and that's over seventy years. And well done to BFP for the "live" feed tonight, very helpful in the overflow room.

Who cares about recreational flying apart from a couple of rich blokes. This is a bad decision made by a sport hating town. For sport hating replace with obese/exercise dodgers....

A perfect case of needing to engage brain before tapping computer keys; if this town hates sport, nobody would have used the "sports village" anyway, which makes it even more of a white elephant. I suppose that someone as vitriolic as you will totally ignore this, but a lot of flying at Booker is done by professional pilots, who have to accrue a certain number of hours, in order to qualify to take ordinary holidaymakers abroad. I laughed at M40's assertion that now Booker will close, and Heathrow will be laughing; Booker would have closed, anyway, since the CAA would never have allowed flying to continue, so the prospect of the referees' whistles being continually drowned out by 747s and A380s was always there. Maybe the new order, in the council, will realise that getting some rent is better than getting none at all, and stop the swingeing increases, which were solely designed to drive the aircraft out, thereby getting a perfect reason for closing the airfield.

pault34 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote: Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

You appear to be a disappointed (bitter ?) stadium supporter but please - do a little bit of research before blogging 'facts'. Thank you

Gliding is an elitist sport, if indeed it is a sport. Pretty sure no one at my school had the money for a career in aviation. Like I said, the haves and haves not...Also, bit presumptious to assume football fans are all over weight....I think your fattist

gpn01 wrote:

pault34 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote: Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

You appear to be a disappointed (bitter ?) stadium supporter but please - do a little bit of research before blogging 'facts'. Thank you

Gliding is an elitist sport, if indeed it is a sport. Pretty sure no one at my school had the money for a career in aviation. Like I said, the haves and haves not...Also, bit presumptious to assume football fans are all over weight....I think your fattist

Booker Gliding Club is a Community Amateur SPORTS Council accredited club. Please remember that a sport doesn't always involve a ball - e.g. rowing, sailing, athletics. . What is it that makes you think that a particular sport is "elitist" and what makes you think that the "haves and have nots" comes into play with how people choose to spend what money they have in taking part in their particular passion? . It may indeed be the case that you didn't know anybody at your school who pursued a career in aviation (I bet many of them have been on an aeroplane on holiday though) but you're mixing up work with pleasure. Funnily enough there are glider pilots who fly "for fun" and some of those are also professional pilots who enjoy the freedom and pleasure that gliding brings to their lives. . Some professional pilots are bitten by the aviation bug at a young age (Booker's Gliding Club is the first British National Junior Gliding Centre and operates a cadet scheme to encourage young people into the sport). Gliding provides an excellent foundation upon which they can start their career. . Please don't knock something simply becasue it's not "your thing".

gpn01 wrote:
"Amateur" means that you don't get paid for doing it. Not that you don't have to pay for doing it. . It is however, unlike professional sports, completely free to watch.

pault34 wrote:

gpn01 wrote: "Amateur" means that you don't get paid for doing it. Not that you don't have to pay for doing it. . It is however, unlike professional sports, completely free to watch.

Ahh, I see. So indeed you do have to pay a fortune to partake then as I initially thought. Very confusing.... Certainly a new stadium would have served a wide demographic of people. The existing installation there just seems to server the lucky few as I initially intimated.... I guess you can watch for free but its hard to work out who wins....

gpn01 wrote:
"Amateur" means that you don't get paid for doing it. Not that you don't have to pay for doing it.
.
It is however, unlike professional sports, completely free to watch.

Phredd wrote:
I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about amateur verses professional.
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An amateur sport is one where participants are not paid, but can win prize money.
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A professional sport is one where the participants are paid, win or lose.
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You might well have to pay to watch amateur sports, especially if the organisers have to pay venue hire, judges etc.
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Then there are the differences between different types of Clubs.
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Some are businesses owned by an individual or company, and are there to, hopefully, make a profit for the shareholders. Wasps and Wanderers for example.
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There are also clubs that are owned by a person or shareholders who are referred to as non-profit making companies. What this means is that all the profits are ploughed back into running the club - usually in these cases any extra after running expenses is paid to the owner(s) as income.
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Finally there are member-owned clubs. If they make a profit that is spread amongst the members they are profit-making. If they invest all their money in the running of the club, and no-one can make a profit out of the Club if it is sold or disbanded it can qualify as a Community Amateur Sports Club (CASC) provided a lot of other rules are followed. Basically a CASC is a lot like a charity for tax purposes, and the Sport it is involved with must be recognised by Sport England.
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Almost every amateur sport is not free to participate in. At the very least the participants will need to pay for insurance, and possibly membership of the governing body. In addition there is the costs associated with running the club - facility hire, rates, electricity, equipment wear and tear etc.

wayneo wrote:

Phredd wrote: I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about amateur verses professional. . An amateur sport is one where participants are not paid, but can win prize money. . A professional sport is one where the participants are paid, win or lose. . You might well have to pay to watch amateur sports, especially if the organisers have to pay venue hire, judges etc. . Then there are the differences between different types of Clubs. . Some are businesses owned by an individual or company, and are there to, hopefully, make a profit for the shareholders. Wasps and Wanderers for example. . There are also clubs that are owned by a person or shareholders who are referred to as non-profit making companies. What this means is that all the profits are ploughed back into running the club - usually in these cases any extra after running expenses is paid to the owner(s) as income. . Finally there are member-owned clubs. If they make a profit that is spread amongst the members they are profit-making. If they invest all their money in the running of the club, and no-one can make a profit out of the Club if it is sold or disbanded it can qualify as a Community Amateur Sports Club (CASC) provided a lot of other rules are followed. Basically a CASC is a lot like a charity for tax purposes, and the Sport it is involved with must be recognised by Sport England. . Almost every amateur sport is not free to participate in. At the very least the participants will need to pay for insurance, and possibly membership of the governing body. In addition there is the costs associated with running the club - facility hire, rates, electricity, equipment wear and tear etc.

Here you go Phredd, : ! "While we will stop work on the community stadium and sports project at the Air Park site, we are committed to investigating future sporting provision in the Wycombe district. We want to provide a new sports centre at Handy Cross and would like to engage with the community on possible options so that ultimately, we can provide facilities that we can all use and be proud of." ! ! "Sounds to me Handy X and the wider Community to me, at the very least we'll be asked and that's a positive step. " ! http://www.wycombe.g ov.uk/news/press-rel ease/19jul11-council -to-stop-work-on-com munity-stadium-and-s ports-project-at-wyc ombe-air-park.aspx

gpn01 wrote:

pault34 wrote:

gpn01 wrote: "Amateur" means that you don't get paid for doing it. Not that you don't have to pay for doing it. . It is however, unlike professional sports, completely free to watch.

Ahh, I see. So indeed you do have to pay a fortune to partake then as I initially thought. Very confusing.... Certainly a new stadium would have served a wide demographic of people. The existing installation there just seems to server the lucky few as I initially intimated.... I guess you can watch for free but its hard to work out who wins....

Your confusion is because you're applying some form of prejudice without reading what's being written. I made no mention of costs and yet you've chosen to infer that it costs a fortune. To some people the cost of entry to a football match is a fortune, to others owning a football club is not. All a matter of perspective. People choose to use their money as they see fit. Some people spend their money on beer, some people save it so they can spend it on something they enjoy. . I guess the 'wide demographic' that a new stadium would serve is pretty much the same as that which the existing stadium serves...so no additional benefit. . You're right about working out who's won in a glidng competition. Aerobatic rules work very similarly to ice skating. Racing works much like some sailing competitions. "Grand Prix" style racing is much easier though....it's whoever crosses the line first wins.

pault34 wrote:

gpn01 wrote:

pault34 wrote:

gpn01 wrote: "Amateur" means that you don't get paid for doing it. Not that you don't have to pay for doing it. . It is however, unlike professional sports, completely free to watch.

Ahh, I see. So indeed you do have to pay a fortune to partake then as I initially thought. Very confusing.... Certainly a new stadium would have served a wide demographic of people. The existing installation there just seems to server the lucky few as I initially intimated.... I guess you can watch for free but its hard to work out who wins....

Your confusion is because you're applying some form of prejudice without reading what's being written. I made no mention of costs and yet you've chosen to infer that it costs a fortune. To some people the cost of entry to a football match is a fortune, to others owning a football club is not. All a matter of perspective. People choose to use their money as they see fit. Some people spend their money on beer, some people save it so they can spend it on something they enjoy. . I guess the 'wide demographic' that a new stadium would serve is pretty much the same as that which the existing stadium serves...so no additional benefit. . You're right about working out who's won in a glidng competition. Aerobatic rules work very similarly to ice skating. Racing works much like some sailing competitions. "Grand Prix" style racing is much easier though....it's whoever crosses the line first wins.

All I am saying is that gliding and other air-based activities are inaccessible and unrealistic for a wider part of society whereas a new community stadium with desperately needed new sports centre facilities would have benefitted a wider spectrum of the populous.

J B Blackett wrote:
Let's face it the so-called 'Sports Village' was a poorly thought out speculative project, dubiously funded with 50% coming from the local tax-payers (that's about 23% of the actual 'paying-in' population), run and promoted by dodgy characters and backed by dictatorial very unpopular councillors (now demoted). A planning and financial disaster waiting to happen. . It was just a scheme to acquire some ill-gotten gains for a small handful of people - a third rate Sports Supermarket over 2.5 miles out of town that the speculators / exploiters wanted people to travel to - with no car parking either. (???) . Anybody who believed any of those deceitful people involved (owners, politicians , other 'community leaders' etc) needs to look up the word 'gullible' in a convenient dictionary. They might find they can't find it. . Perhaps the old saying 'The good guys always win in the end' can be true sometimes.

gpn01 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:
Let's face it the so-called 'Sports Village' was a poorly thought out speculative project, dubiously funded with 50% coming from the local tax-payers (that's about 23% of the actual 'paying-in' population), run and promoted by dodgy characters and backed by dictatorial very unpopular councillors (now demoted). A planning and financial disaster waiting to happen. . It was just a scheme to acquire some ill-gotten gains for a small handful of people - a third rate Sports Supermarket over 2.5 miles out of town that the speculators / exploiters wanted people to travel to - with no car parking either. (???) . Anybody who believed any of those deceitful people involved (owners, politicians , other 'community leaders' etc) needs to look up the word 'gullible' in a convenient dictionary. They might find they can't find it. . Perhaps the old saying 'The good guys always win in the end' can be true sometimes.

Your response is confusing the STADIUM proposal with the idea of a possible sports VILLAGE, a confusion that many others seem to have fallen foul of. The Business Case that WDC's Cabinet rejected was for a sports stadium and 'sports facilities' (rugby & fotball pitches). The 'sports village' was an additional, possible, future add-on for which no specific details were included.
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Of the £67 Million project costs, ZERO was for the village, for which the document states "These facilities are assumed to be self funding and reliant upon third parties".
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The BFP headlines are prefixed 'Stadium:' and not 'village:'for good reason.
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Please don't confuse the two. The BBC in its report on the Cabinet did initially but this has now been corrected. WWFC's site continues to claim "COUNCIL VOTE NO TO SPORTING VILLAGE" which simply isn't true. They voted against a STADIUM project. Maybe WSDL submitted the wrong business plan? Their website talks about all of the benefits that a village would provide....so presumably a stadium wasn't needed after all?

J B Blackett wrote:

gpn01 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote: Let's face it the so-called 'Sports Village' was a poorly thought out speculative project, dubiously funded with 50% coming from the local tax-payers (that's about 23% of the actual 'paying-in' population), run and promoted by dodgy characters and backed by dictatorial very unpopular councillors (now demoted). A planning and financial disaster waiting to happen. . It was just a scheme to acquire some ill-gotten gains for a small handful of people - a third rate Sports Supermarket over 2.5 miles out of town that the speculators / exploiters wanted people to travel to - with no car parking either. (???) . Anybody who believed any of those deceitful people involved (owners, politicians , other 'community leaders' etc) needs to look up the word 'gullible' in a convenient dictionary. They might find they can't find it. . Perhaps the old saying 'The good guys always win in the end' can be true sometimes.

Your response is confusing the STADIUM proposal with the idea of a possible sports VILLAGE, a confusion that many others seem to have fallen foul of. The Business Case that WDC's Cabinet rejected was for a sports stadium and 'sports facilities' (rugby & fotball pitches). The 'sports village' was an additional, possible, future add-on for which no specific details were included. . Of the £67 Million project costs, ZERO was for the village, for which the document states "These facilities are assumed to be self funding and reliant upon third parties". . The BFP headlines are prefixed 'Stadium:' and not 'village:'for good reason. . Please don't confuse the two. The BBC in its report on the Cabinet did initially but this has now been corrected. WWFC's site continues to claim "COUNCIL VOTE NO TO SPORTING VILLAGE" which simply isn't true. They voted against a STADIUM project. Maybe WSDL submitted the wrong business plan? Their website talks about all of the benefits that a village would provide....so presumably a stadium wasn't needed after all?

Who to believe ? . You, The BFP , The BBC , the local politicians ( the local MP it must be pointed out expressed no view whatsoever ) , the 'management team', the 'community leaders' , the protest groups , pro-groups , the residents of the area , The Labour Group , The Tory Group , The Lib Dems etc - all singing from different song sheets. No wonder a lot of people are still confused. . I'm glad you know the whole truth , because, I'm afraid, I still don't. And all the people I know with an opinion (pro and anti) don't either. Good luck and thank you.

J B Blackett wrote:
I'm afraid that appears to me is just a few recorded facts mixed in with a few phrases favoured by politicians And issued by Wycombe Counci by proven group of duplicitous (imo) politicians and accessible via a blog on this BFP paper. I like easy answers but I think there is a lot more than going on than most people are allowed to access to. . This WD council and 'associated' others have a murky record of deception, dictatorial methods and secrecy over the past few years. So I tend to believe what I consider other reliable sources rather than the 'official' ones. . This Wycombe council has got a very long way to go to recover the lost credibility, the trust of the people and the openness they have wantonly and arrogantly dissipated in recent times. A very poor track record. . It will take more than a few written words (which can be conveniently ignored later) to re-establish the trust that people used to have - and it's not just about the Hayes 'Stadium' either. . That is my honest opinion. Actions are far more potent and important than some politicians' or 'business people's' words.

gpn01 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:
I'm afraid that appears to me is just a few recorded facts mixed in with a few phrases favoured by politicians And issued by Wycombe Counci by proven group of duplicitous (imo) politicians and accessible via a blog on this BFP paper. I like easy answers but I think there is a lot more than going on than most people are allowed to access to. . This WD council and 'associated' others have a murky record of deception, dictatorial methods and secrecy over the past few years. So I tend to believe what I consider other reliable sources rather than the 'official' ones. . This Wycombe council has got a very long way to go to recover the lost credibility, the trust of the people and the openness they have wantonly and arrogantly dissipated in recent times. A very poor track record. . It will take more than a few written words (which can be conveniently ignored later) to re-establish the trust that people used to have - and it's not just about the Hayes 'Stadium' either. . That is my honest opinion. Actions are far more potent and important than some politicians' or 'business people's' words.

Whilst I understand the sentiment, and your opinion works for you, published minutes hold true as a matter of public record. In a court of law, which do you think would stand up - your opinion (or indeed that of "other reliable sources") or a published record of council proceedings?

J B Blackett wrote:

gpn01 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote: I'm afraid that appears to me is just a few recorded facts mixed in with a few phrases favoured by politicians And issued by Wycombe Counci by proven group of duplicitous (imo) politicians and accessible via a blog on this BFP paper. I like easy answers but I think there is a lot more than going on than most people are allowed to access to. . This WD council and 'associated' others have a murky record of deception, dictatorial methods and secrecy over the past few years. So I tend to believe what I consider other reliable sources rather than the 'official' ones. . This Wycombe council has got a very long way to go to recover the lost credibility, the trust of the people and the openness they have wantonly and arrogantly dissipated in recent times. A very poor track record. . It will take more than a few written words (which can be conveniently ignored later) to re-establish the trust that people used to have - and it's not just about the Hayes 'Stadium' either. . That is my honest opinion. Actions are far more potent and important than some politicians' or 'business people's' words.

Whilst I understand the sentiment, and your opinion works for you, published minutes hold true as a matter of public record. In a court of law, which do you think would stand up - your opinion (or indeed that of "other reliable sources") or a published record of council proceedings?

That is debatable. A recent example in the last few years are the written minutes of various committee meetings held at the House of Commons and conducted by politicians / MPS with journalists , editors , policemen , owners of various newspapers , etc. about numerous topics not just the recent fiasco and associated webs of deceit. All of it recorded (apparently) truthfully and accurately. . But it (surprisingly) turns out some of the recorded utterances cannot be true as they are in conflict with other recorded utterances and even contradictory in some instances. . An additional feature of WDC meetings is that they give access tto 'the big boys and girls' but not very often to an opposing point of view. Just like the way Hughenden Council used to be run. There are numerous examples of the 'words' of duplicitous politicians and business people proving not to be trusted. . I appreciate your sincerity but I can not tread on what I and my sources consider shaky ground - not until it's safe and prudent to do so. Time will tell. Good Luck

gpn01 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:
Let's face it the so-called 'Sports Village' was a poorly thought out speculative project, dubiously funded with 50% coming from the local tax-payers (that's about 23% of the actual 'paying-in' population), run and promoted by dodgy characters and backed by dictatorial very unpopular councillors (now demoted). A planning and financial disaster waiting to happen. . It was just a scheme to acquire some ill-gotten gains for a small handful of people - a third rate Sports Supermarket over 2.5 miles out of town that the speculators / exploiters wanted people to travel to - with no car parking either. (???) . Anybody who believed any of those deceitful people involved (owners, politicians , other 'community leaders' etc) needs to look up the word 'gullible' in a convenient dictionary. They might find they can't find it. . Perhaps the old saying 'The good guys always win in the end' can be true sometimes.

Your response is confusing the STADIUM proposal with the idea of a possible sports VILLAGE, a confusion that many others seem to have fallen foul of. The Business Case that WDC's Cabinet rejected was for a sports stadium and 'sports facilities' (rugby & fotball pitches). The 'sports village' was an additional, possible, future add-on for which no specific details were included.
.
Of the £67 Million project costs, ZERO was for the village, for which the document states "These facilities are assumed to be self funding and reliant upon third parties".
.
The BFP headlines are prefixed 'Stadium:' and not 'village:'for good reason.
.
Please don't confuse the two. The BBC in its report on the Cabinet did initially but this has now been corrected. WWFC's site continues to claim "COUNCIL VOTE NO TO SPORTING VILLAGE" which simply isn't true. They voted against a STADIUM project. Maybe WSDL submitted the wrong business plan? Their website talks about all of the benefits that a village would provide....so presumably a stadium wasn't needed after all?

pault34 wrote:

blues chick wrote:
Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

Well said Blues Chick. Some of us have to work but the likes of Ivor et al just meander round town moaning. At least when they have got their way and WWFC are gone they can return to buying Chelsea tickets and merchandise without any guilt...

pault34 wrote:

Edgar Brooks wrote:

pault34 wrote:

zwizz wrote: Well done, a victory for common sense and democracy for once! Well done to GASP for all their organising efforts. And also victory for those wanting a better Handy Cross Sports Complex; you may yet get one. Let's hope that a decent long-term future for recreational flying at Booker can now be assured, for as far into the future as it's already been there, and that's over seventy years. And well done to BFP for the "live" feed tonight, very helpful in the overflow room.

Who cares about recreational flying apart from a couple of rich blokes. This is a bad decision made by a sport hating town. For sport hating replace with obese/exercise dodgers....

A perfect case of needing to engage brain before tapping computer keys; if this town hates sport, nobody would have used the "sports village" anyway, which makes it even more of a white elephant. I suppose that someone as vitriolic as you will totally ignore this, but a lot of flying at Booker is done by professional pilots, who have to accrue a certain number of hours, in order to qualify to take ordinary holidaymakers abroad. I laughed at M40's assertion that now Booker will close, and Heathrow will be laughing; Booker would have closed, anyway, since the CAA would never have allowed flying to continue, so the prospect of the referees' whistles being continually drowned out by 747s and A380s was always there. Maybe the new order, in the council, will realise that getting some rent is better than getting none at all, and stop the swingeing increases, which were solely designed to drive the aircraft out, thereby getting a perfect reason for closing the airfield.

Wow, you really bit didnt you.
But seriously, is this all about plane lovers now? And as for pilots training so they can take 'ordinary' holidaymakers abroad....are they still required? Most people, myself included, have been forced to holiday in England now for mainly economic reasons so maybe the air park is now the white elephant perhaps...
What a weird old town I live in. Full of flying Chelsea fans :(

gpn01 wrote:
"terminological inexactitude" in the same way as referring to a game of football as a game of tennis....i.e. both have similarities but are very different.

pault34 wrote:

Edgar Brooks wrote:

pault34 wrote:

zwizz wrote: Well done, a victory for common sense and democracy for once! Well done to GASP for all their organising efforts. And also victory for those wanting a better Handy Cross Sports Complex; you may yet get one. Let's hope that a decent long-term future for recreational flying at Booker can now be assured, for as far into the future as it's already been there, and that's over seventy years. And well done to BFP for the "live" feed tonight, very helpful in the overflow room.

Who cares about recreational flying apart from a couple of rich blokes. This is a bad decision made by a sport hating town. For sport hating replace with obese/exercise dodgers....

A perfect case of needing to engage brain before tapping computer keys; if this town hates sport, nobody would have used the "sports village" anyway, which makes it even more of a white elephant. I suppose that someone as vitriolic as you will totally ignore this, but a lot of flying at Booker is done by professional pilots, who have to accrue a certain number of hours, in order to qualify to take ordinary holidaymakers abroad. I laughed at M40's assertion that now Booker will close, and Heathrow will be laughing; Booker would have closed, anyway, since the CAA would never have allowed flying to continue, so the prospect of the referees' whistles being continually drowned out by 747s and A380s was always there. Maybe the new order, in the council, will realise that getting some rent is better than getting none at all, and stop the swingeing increases, which were solely designed to drive the aircraft out, thereby getting a perfect reason for closing the airfield.

Wow, you really bit didnt you.
But seriously, is this all about plane lovers now? And as for pilots training so they can take 'ordinary' holidaymakers abroad....are they still required? Most people, myself included, have been forced to holiday in England now for mainly economic reasons so maybe the air park is now the white elephant perhaps...
What a weird old town I live in. Full of flying Chelsea fans :(

Plus ça change... wrote:
I'd like a small pool, CV room, small running track and the rest about a 3/4 of a mile from my house.

I promise I'll walk.

Dr John Dinosaur wrote:

Plus ça change... wrote:
I'd like a small pool, CV room, small running track and the rest about a 3/4 of a mile from my house.

I promise I'll walk.

What is a 'CV room'?

John Ley wrote:
The New Stadium plan would probably have been against EU competition law due to the level of subsidy it involved to two privately owned professional sports clubs. In the form it was presented it is quite likely that if passed by the local council it would then have been referred to the European Competition Commission.

BOGITS wrote:
I love Football and I love Flying but please dont tell me Gliding is a Sport!! Its a Pastime or even a Hobby not a Sport ? What defines a Sport? Surely not sitting in a Glider and waving the arms with the stick?

BOGITS wrote:
Far from a Dim-Wit my old fruit!!! Perhaps if I drive my car 300km it makes me a sports person? Come on!! Perhaps we should all take up snail racing and call that a sport.......Uh go away!!! You sad person