Ex-council chief: Stadium axe means we'll get blamed for Wasps crisis (From Bucks Free Press)

"I was a supporter of the concept. I believe it had so many benefits that it was worth taking the risk of moving the project on. But nobody could be certain it would succeed at that stage, but it certainly had tremendous benefits if one could pull it off" - I'd rather you didn't gamble with our money, thank you very much. The stadium project was too 'mucky' with both private and council interests involved. I'm sorry but sporting businesses have to stand on their own two feet - the council shouldn't be there to prop them up.

We knew when the stadium didn't go through that one of the repercussions could be that there'd be a lack of financial support for both Wasps and Wanderers.

“Steve Hayes always made it clear that he saw these plans as needed to bring investment into the two clubs.


So the sweaty headed one was holding the council to randsome and certain members of the council didnt have the nerver to say "run away and play with your toys little boy"

If the two teams are ini debt now, no new stadium would have saved them. Instead empty seats for games while we the tax payer picked up the bill for the farce.

Make no mistake I feel sorry for both of the teams but from the start the whole thing was rotten to the core.

There is but one reason why the clubs are in the position that they are in, MANAGEMENT, when any company or person spends more than they receive in income, they to accept the risks associated with allowing more debt or prevent those costs from escalating in the first place. It is a fact that the escalation of debt that Wanderers find themselves with, occured under the management of Mr Hayes, it is a fact that Mr Hayes used is money to service those debts and which inevitably led to him taking overal control of both clubs. As a businessman, Mr Hayes while running the clubs, should know and beware of the risks associated with allowing debt to spiral out of control.
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There is NOBODY to blame but for the management of those Companies who allowed the debt to rise to such preportions, as MD of Wanderers, Hayes should have been reigned in sooner, he wasn't; that Mr Hayes hedged his bets on a grand stadium and development plan that might/might not have progressed or succeeded is a problem for hayes not for the Council and many of the fans (who themselves have been treated appalingly), I speak with share that view.
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The Council has a DUTY to protect the taxpayer unlike others that are now having to pay millions towards the costs of running such ill-conceived projects, WDC, including all parties that were involved, won't be remembered as being responsible for scuppering a stadium, that rests with the MANAGEMENT of those clubs, nobody else.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of that specific business plan the decision not to move forward looking at some sort of community stadium for the people of Wycombe HAS lead Wasps to this position. The vociferous campaign by a minority ran way before any business case emerged with half truths regards traffic, rerouting of Heathrow's flightpath wild pop concert noise; all was designed to scare people into opposition without knowing the full facts. The regional waste disposal site appears to be happening without the stadium so the link created between that and a stadium build was a false one. Not only Wasps but Wanderers will be affected by this and may also go into administration but if it is a price that THE MAJORITY of Wycombe District residents want to pay then so be it.

The only people to blame in the Wasps downfall is their management. This is a business and it’s been run very badly (as a lot of other clubs have up and down the Country).
If Steve Hayes or pals were to fund a new stadium from their own money rather than leverage from the public purse, then they could have gone ahead from any suitable location or gone for a site expansion at the current ground.
WDC made the right decision not to go ahead with the White Elephant project and always kept their doors open - I'm sure that the buyer for Wasps pulled out when reading about Steve Hayes arrest - also I'm sure that if had the stadium plan gone ahead, then it would have made a small number of key players very rich and people like Steve Hayes would have walked away straight afterwards and the Council and Clubs would be left with the big problem of trying to fill the extra seats.

The only people to blame for when a club or business goes into administration is the management.

Pointing the fingers and crying is only a diversion.

Whilst the Booker site was not suitable for the Stadium there were other sites in the District such as Daws Hill that could have been used instead.

It seems that the people who rigged the last local elections will now be happy as they have driven Wycombe into the Mud!

yog wrote:
Whilst the Booker site was not suitable for the Stadium there were other sites in the District such as Daws Hill that could have been used instead.

Thats fine by me, booker was fine by me, just as long as I as a tax payer didnt pick up the bill.
If it was such a great plan why didnt the sweaty headed one and his chums stump up the cash?

Tharus Bond wrote:
It seems that the people who rigged the last local elections will now be happy as they have driven Wycombe into the Mud!

How will this drive wycombe in to the mud?
I seem to recall wycombe was somehow managing to get by without wasps and I cannot see how loosing wycombe wanderers will cause any problems to the town either?

Tharus Bond wrote:
It seems that the people who rigged the last local elections will now be happy as they have driven Wycombe into the Mud!

Hmm, new sports centre and transport interchange, upgrade Rye swimming pool, new mixed use development next to Hughenden quarter, Town Centre mastplan proposals, yeah, Wycombe's going to the dogs because a ruddy stadium wasn't built. Jeez.

wearywasp wrote:
Whatever the rights and wrongs of that specific business plan the decision not to move forward looking at some sort of community stadium for the people of Wycombe HAS lead Wasps to this position. The vociferous campaign by a minority ran way before any business case emerged with half truths regards traffic, rerouting of Heathrow's flightpath wild pop concert noise; all was designed to scare people into opposition without knowing the full facts. The regional waste disposal site appears to be happening without the stadium so the link created between that and a stadium build was a false one. Not only Wasps but Wanderers will be affected by this and may also go into administration but if it is a price that THE MAJORITY of Wycombe District residents want to pay then so be it.

Wearywasp, in another story you berated people who took the time to look into the plans and I challenged you to admit how much time you had looked at the proposal and how much time you had spent campaigning in favour of it.
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It's clear from your latest missive that you didn't spend much time at all looking at the proposal, or attending meetings, or listening to people (both for and against).
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If you had read the business case (like many of us did) you'd have quickly realised why it wasn't viable.
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If you understood the restrictions on developments in Green Belt you'd appreciate another reason why it was a non-starter.
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If you'd read the WDC IR&C report you'd have known that there was sufficient room to expand capacity at Adams Park (theerby obviating the need for another stadium).
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If you'd read the National Audit Office's report on Swansea Stadium, you'd appreciate just how badly wrong these projects can go.
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Or maybe you should look at Colchester United's annual report and the blame that lays on falling atendence due to moving to a new stadium?
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Or maybe you should read the reports about the failures of other stadium projects at Doncaster and Darlington?
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Not knowing the full facts? I'll admit that I don't know ALL of the facts (e.g. where was London Wasps planning to obtain its share of the financing?, What evidence was there that they had a viable finance plan going forwards, what proof was there that they weren't about to suffer from financial problems anyway?, what personal guarantees did the club directors and financiers lodge with the Council as a form of guarantee of committment?) but, believe me, thanks to those members of groups such as GASP the public were at least made aware of some of the facts that were otherwise hidden.
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Finally, the football & rugby stadium (it was only a 'community' stadium in as much as it was the community that woud pay for it) decision did not lead to the postion that London Wasps now finds itself in. The club has ended up in this position because it continues to spend more money than it brings in and the directors have failed to address this simple problem. Or have you not even read their annual accounts?

wearywasp wrote:
Whatever the rights and wrongs of that specific business plan the decision not to move forward looking at some sort of community stadium for the people of Wycombe HAS lead Wasps to this position. The vociferous campaign by a minority ran way before any business case emerged with half truths regards traffic, rerouting of Heathrow's flightpath wild pop concert noise; all was designed to scare people into opposition without knowing the full facts. The regional waste disposal site appears to be happening without the stadium so the link created between that and a stadium build was a false one. Not only Wasps but Wanderers will be affected by this and may also go into administration but if it is a price that THE MAJORITY of Wycombe District residents want to pay then so be it.

What's the population of High Wycombe? 100,000? The last attandance figures I saw didn't show Wasps and Wanderers combined anywhere near 50,000.... so I don't think think the majority are paying the price.

Most football clubs and a good number of big-name rugby union clubs have been running at a loss for a good many years, sustained by debt facilities.

We are seeing a correction at the moment that will see many hundreds of wealthy football and rugby players struggle to find work when as many as half of these clubs fail in the next couple of years.

Many of us have been wondering for years how come these 20-something idiot players earn 10, 20, 30 times more than your average hard working family man.

If this tsunami that is hitting sports presently means that the man on the street comes out of it with more respect from others and a greater feeling of self-worth then great!

I always knew this era of millionaire professional sportsmen in the thousands was flash in the pan. We need the occasional Muhammad Ali or Jack Niklaus to admire, but not hundreds of them.

Disappointingly negative headline.
It could have read:-
"ex- council chief: stadium axe means we'll be remembered as saviours of the green belt"

gotanybiscuits? wrote:
Disappointingly negative headline. It could have read:- "ex- council chief: stadium axe means we'll be remembered as saviours of the green belt"

Or "ex-council chief congratulates WDC Cabinet for avoiding saddling the Council with £40M white elephant after rugby club suffers financial woes".

Squidgy Steve

Thinking of you.

Luv
Bubba
HMP Pentonville
xxx

Something for people to ponder very, very, carefully about this topic. - Much of the concern about the continued financial viability (or otherwise) of London Wasps Holdings Ltd is because the annual accounts for 2011, even though due by 31st March, still haven't been submitted.
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The thing that should be raising eyebrows is that the overdue accounts are for the year ended 30th JUNE 2011.
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It's the same story with WWFC Ltd's accounts.
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The WDC Cabinet decision regarding the proposed stadium project wasn't made until 18th JULY 2011. i.e. a month AFTER the period for which the accounts are for.

The failure of Wasps and (maybe) Wanderers has nothing to do with the council.
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Steve Hayes bought in and engineered a situation whereby he thought he would get the use of a new stadium and would be able to sell off the Adams Park site and make a healthy profit for himself.
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Once Wasps and Wanderers were ensconced in their shiney new home - paid for by the taxpayers - he could then sell both the teams, but any purchase would come with debts still outstanding - debts to .... guess who ... Steve Hayes. But the shiny new stadium would make them much easier to sell.
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This had NOTHING to do with sport. This had nothing to do with building facilities for the people. This had EVERYTHING to do with Steve Hayes trying to make large amounts of money at the taxpayers' expense. We could see right from the start the way he was buttering up people on the council - like Clarke - and the likes of Bucks New University (who, as with Hayes, would benefit from the locals pouring money into a new stadium whilst contributing nothing themselves.)
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Hayes orchestrated the great love-in between all these parties.
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I wonder if BNU has thought about the honours they bestowed on the dodgy businessman whilst it suited their greed and his.
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Wasps and Wanderers have come under attack simply because of their dodgy owner. The people I talk to don't want to see them fail and go out of business, but they also don't want the council to put loads of taxpayers' money into the pockets of people like Hayes, which is in effect what would happen.

geoffW wrote:
The failure of Wasps and (maybe) Wanderers has nothing to do with the council.
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Steve Hayes bought in and engineered a situation whereby he thought he would get the use of a new stadium and would be able to sell off the Adams Park site and make a healthy profit for himself.
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Once Wasps and Wanderers were ensconced in their shiney new home - paid for by the taxpayers - he could then sell both the teams, but any purchase would come with debts still outstanding - debts to .... guess who ... Steve Hayes. But the shiny new stadium would make them much easier to sell.
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This had NOTHING to do with sport. This had nothing to do with building facilities for the people. This had EVERYTHING to do with Steve Hayes trying to make large amounts of money at the taxpayers' expense. We could see right from the start the way he was buttering up people on the council - like Clarke - and the likes of Bucks New University (who, as with Hayes, would benefit from the locals pouring money into a new stadium whilst contributing nothing themselves.)
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Hayes orchestrated the great love-in between all these parties.
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I wonder if BNU has thought about the honours they bestowed on the dodgy businessman whilst it suited their greed and his.
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Wasps and Wanderers have come under attack simply because of their dodgy owner. The people I talk to don't want to see them fail and go out of business, but they also don't want the council to put loads of taxpayers' money into the pockets of people like Hayes, which is in effect what would happen.

I think that pretty much sums it up Geoff.
It seems most of the people knew this all along except of course the likes of clarke who happily went along with this and wasted so much of our money.
I hope she is now suitably embarrassed by her rantings.

wearywasp wrote:
Whatever the rights and wrongs of that specific business plan the decision not to move forward looking at some sort of community stadium for the people of Wycombe HAS lead Wasps to this position. The vociferous campaign by a minority ran way before any business case emerged with half truths regards traffic, rerouting of Heathrow's flightpath wild pop concert noise; all was designed to scare people into opposition without knowing the full facts. The regional waste disposal site appears to be happening without the stadium so the link created between that and a stadium build was a false one. Not only Wasps but Wanderers will be affected by this and may also go into administration but if it is a price that THE MAJORITY of Wycombe District residents want to pay then so be it.

The majority of people do not want to fork out for the excessive and salaries/wages (with bonuses) payed to professional football players - of soccer and rugby. Also all the well-off hangers-on (eg agents etc)
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That's what's bringing these sports to its financial knees - not the supporters / fans or subsidizers who are then asked to support these rich people in the manner to which they have become accustomed.
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It's nationwide - this problem - with in excess of 80% of clubs pleading poverty or lack of support.
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Why will nobody speak the truth of it and admit the whole system and the payment structure its based on are not sustainable as they is nowadays.
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There's none so blind as those that cannot see. These people have their fingers in their ears going laa-laa-laa - so there is no admittance by any of them
as to what is obviously wrong to anybody with common sense.
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But I do like watching football - perhaps a few less expensive or local players would help - it would still be very watchable - perhaps even more so than forking out for these money-grubbing transient multimillionaires - some of whom need a good slap.
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the only ones to blame for Wasps (amd if they too are in trouble- WWFC) problems is their directors (i.e. Mr Hayes et al)

Both clubs are private limited businesses

they are not tax payer sponges, nor community enterprises - they exist soley to make money for their owners

If my florist shop was in difficulty, I couldn't blame the council nor could I look to the council to bail me out!

same for Wasps and WWFC!

Just a thought. I presume that if Wanderers and Wasps both go to the wall then all Hayes is left with Adams Park. I wonder if he will be allowed to sell it as development land, pocket the money and do a runner.
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The debts of Wanderers and Wasps are owed to a variety of people - even Hayes himself. But this scenario would see many other people out of pocket, especially, I have no doubt, the tax man. We will still end up paying!
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Hayes will walk away with the only thing worth money ... the real estate.

DannyDiv wrote:
Most football clubs and a good number of big-name rugby union clubs have been running at a loss for a good many years, sustained by debt facilities. We are seeing a correction at the moment that will see many hundreds of wealthy football and rugby players struggle to find work when as many as half of these clubs fail in the next couple of years. Many of us have been wondering for years how come these 20-something idiot players earn 10, 20, 30 times more than your average hard working family man. If this tsunami that is hitting sports presently means that the man on the street comes out of it with more respect from others and a greater feeling of self-worth then great! I always knew this era of millionaire professional sportsmen in the thousands was flash in the pan. We need the occasional Muhammad Ali or Jack Niklaus to admire, but not hundreds of them.

Well all this negativity towards the club is very sad. Rugby players earn a fraction of what footballers do with a salary cap of £4m across THE WHOLE SQUAD. Many younger players earn much less than average salaries. Rugby players only become wealthy through endorsements when they reach international level. Please do not lump them in with footballers. I also suspect Hayes has not been paying anywhere near the salary cap...whcih is why performances have been poor and crowds falling. In another difference to footballers teh community work the plsyers do is immense. 1000s of local children have benefitted from having a professional rugby club in Wycombe and this is likely to be lost as the club goes under or leaves this area. Most Wasps fans can't wait to seperate the club from Mr Hayes..he was not our choice for an owner and never liked. I completely accept that this businees case was unacceptable. However I am still baffled by this small town mentality which opposed the stadium before the business case was even revealed.

The clubs will, no doubt, continue to exist in some form even if like AFC Wimbledon, or United FC they have to start again in the lower leagues. The stadium plan was a bad one from all angles save being a moneyspinnner for a small number of dodgy businessmen and unscrupulous local bigwigs. It has no bearing on the businesses of Wasps or WWFC. Darlington will possibly soon be playing in a league no-one has heard of...but in a 20,000 seater white elephant of a stadium.

All of the recent news suggests that WDC were RIGHT to back out of the plan which had more holes than a teabag. It is also worth remembering that Hayes refused to consider less contentious sites for a new stadium, insisting that Booker was the only site he was interested in. Since this was the site that met with the most public opposition (and justifiably so) he put the Council in a very difficult place. Then the actual business case relied on attendances increasing and club success that couldn't be guaranteed. As Darlington know only too well, a shiny stadium won;t save you from the drop if you don;t perform on the pitch. Had Booker Stadium gone ahead, I think we ould all be picking up the bill now.

wearywasp wrote:

DannyDiv wrote: Most football clubs and a good number of big-name rugby union clubs have been running at a loss for a good many years, sustained by debt facilities. We are seeing a correction at the moment that will see many hundreds of wealthy football and rugby players struggle to find work when as many as half of these clubs fail in the next couple of years. Many of us have been wondering for years how come these 20-something idiot players earn 10, 20, 30 times more than your average hard working family man. If this tsunami that is hitting sports presently means that the man on the street comes out of it with more respect from others and a greater feeling of self-worth then great! I always knew this era of millionaire professional sportsmen in the thousands was flash in the pan. We need the occasional Muhammad Ali or Jack Niklaus to admire, but not hundreds of them.

Well all this negativity towards the club is very sad. Rugby players earn a fraction of what footballers do with a salary cap of £4m across THE WHOLE SQUAD. Many younger players earn much less than average salaries. Rugby players only become wealthy through endorsements when they reach international level. Please do not lump them in with footballers. I also suspect Hayes has not been paying anywhere near the salary cap...whcih is why performances have been poor and crowds falling. In another difference to footballers teh community work the plsyers do is immense. 1000s of local children have benefitted from having a professional rugby club in Wycombe and this is likely to be lost as the club goes under or leaves this area. Most Wasps fans can't wait to seperate the club from Mr Hayes..he was not our choice for an owner and never liked. I completely accept that this businees case was unacceptable. However I am still baffled by this small town mentality which opposed the stadium before the business case was even revealed.

Wearywasp, if you'd spent as much time as the rest of us had spent looking into the entire proposal then you'd understand why there was no need to even wait for the publication of the outline business case to know that the whole thing didn't stack up.
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You've mentioned the community support from the club in a seperate message - to which you've not yet responded about why you think the London Wasps would withdraw its community efforts in the area given that it already undertakes activities across the South-East of England (which makes the location of its home ground irrelevant).
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It's likely that if the club ceased operations then the community facilities would cease too. But the clubs accounts suggest that this could have happened anyway (according to Mark Rigby in The Telegraph, this years loss is likely to be around £1.5M), it was £3.1M in 2010 and £2.6M in 2009. They are not numbers that suggest a sustainable business without the deep pockets of a wealthy benefactor (which shouldn't end up being ratepayers!).

In terms of salaries, given that you accuse people of not having the facts. Can you confirm what the salary bills of the rugby and football clubs are? Or do you prefer to simply make swathing statements based on your opinion rather than factual evidence?
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To save other readers the trouble, London Wasps salary bill in 2010 was £6.45M (against a total turnover of £8.4M). For Wycombe Wanderers the salary bill was £4.2M (against turnover of £4.9M). How many multi-million pound businesses do you know where salaries account for over three quarters of the turnover?

Oh, do come on WearyWasp.
Is it small town mentality to object to the curtailing of gliding activities that have been enjoyed for years? Is it small town mentality to contest the premise that if one has a stadium which is not full, then one needs a new one to be built on green belt land? Don't criticse the opponents, criticise the lunatics who promoted an ill-thought out scheme. If it was really that good, then let them come up with a scheme that does NOT involve displacing people and ruining green belt.
Furthermore, WWFC also does a great deal in the community, as the Stadium promoters rightly (for a change) highlighted. So don't get on your high horse and comparatively demean the work done by footballers in this respect., it does you no credit.

gpn01 wrote:

wearywasp wrote:

DannyDiv wrote: Most football clubs and a good number of big-name rugby union clubs have been running at a loss for a good many years, sustained by debt facilities. We are seeing a correction at the moment that will see many hundreds of wealthy football and rugby players struggle to find work when as many as half of these clubs fail in the next couple of years. Many of us have been wondering for years how come these 20-something idiot players earn 10, 20, 30 times more than your average hard working family man. If this tsunami that is hitting sports presently means that the man on the street comes out of it with more respect from others and a greater feeling of self-worth then great! I always knew this era of millionaire professional sportsmen in the thousands was flash in the pan. We need the occasional Muhammad Ali or Jack Niklaus to admire, but not hundreds of them.

Well all this negativity towards the club is very sad. Rugby players earn a fraction of what footballers do with a salary cap of £4m across THE WHOLE SQUAD. Many younger players earn much less than average salaries. Rugby players only become wealthy through endorsements when they reach international level. Please do not lump them in with footballers. I also suspect Hayes has not been paying anywhere near the salary cap...whcih is why performances have been poor and crowds falling. In another difference to footballers teh community work the plsyers do is immense. 1000s of local children have benefitted from having a professional rugby club in Wycombe and this is likely to be lost as the club goes under or leaves this area. Most Wasps fans can't wait to seperate the club from Mr Hayes..he was not our choice for an owner and never liked. I completely accept that this businees case was unacceptable. However I am still baffled by this small town mentality which opposed the stadium before the business case was even revealed.

Wearywasp, if you'd spent as much time as the rest of us had spent looking into the entire proposal then you'd understand why there was no need to even wait for the publication of the outline business case to know that the whole thing didn't stack up.
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You've mentioned the community support from the club in a seperate message - to which you've not yet responded about why you think the London Wasps would withdraw its community efforts in the area given that it already undertakes activities across the South-East of England (which makes the location of its home ground irrelevant).
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It's likely that if the club ceased operations then the community facilities would cease too. But the clubs accounts suggest that this could have happened anyway (according to Mark Rigby in The Telegraph, this years loss is likely to be around £1.5M), it was £3.1M in 2010 and £2.6M in 2009. They are not numbers that suggest a sustainable business without the deep pockets of a wealthy benefactor (which shouldn't end up being ratepayers!).

In terms of salaries, given that you accuse people of not having the facts. Can you confirm what the salary bills of the rugby and football clubs are? Or do you prefer to simply make swathing statements based on your opinion rather than factual evidence?
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To save other readers the trouble, London Wasps salary bill in 2010 was £6.45M (against a total turnover of £8.4M). For Wycombe Wanderers the salary bill was £4.2M (against turnover of £4.9M). How many multi-million pound businesses do you know where salaries account for over three quarters of the turnover?

Well researched and presented , gnp01. You should go and work for Wycombe Wanderers and sort their affairs out.
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That's the financial ones , I mean. The other affairs may need marital counseling or The Serious Crime Squad - in some CEO's case.

This whole process of refusing the stadium but developing Handy X (but reducing the facilities such as squash courts) shows me that it's still who you know that counts in local councils. Have no trust in the council at all - ulterior motives and secret handshakes all the way. I'm a Wasps fan, but would still feel the same even if I wasn't. God I hate politicians!

The Council should concentrate on providing services such as refuse collection, street maintenance and housing. They should never have got involved with sports clubs or other ventures controlled by private individuals.
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Let the Booker stadium débâcle be a lesson for the future, do what you are supposed to and not what millionaires what you to....
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Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

That's why Wanderers fans will always have the moral high ground on this matter.
The fact that generations of Wanderers fans have continued to support their local club over the years and not wait for a pre packed band wagon to appear on its toes.

I remember Martin O'Neil commenting just after his arrival at Loakes Park in 1990.
"The fact that we have 1900 fans down here on a miserable Tuesday night to watch a struggling Non league side, makes me think, if we can get something going here then we might just have half a chance".

Why don't those said councillors get down to Kingsmead and back their local team ? They might even enjoy the ride !!

ivor wrote:
The Council should concentrate on providing services such as refuse collection, street maintenance and housing. They should never have got involved with sports clubs or other ventures controlled by private individuals.
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Let the Booker stadium débâcle be a lesson for the future, do what you are supposed to and not what millionaires what you to....
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Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

Nah - I won't bother reading Ivor's blog.
I would rather cut out my own liver with a blunt pen knife :))

Marlow_AP wrote:
This whole process of refusing the stadium but developing Handy X (but reducing the facilities such as squash courts) shows me that it's still who you know that counts in local councils. Have no trust in the council at all - ulterior motives and secret handshakes all the way. I'm a Wasps fan, but would still feel the same even if I wasn't. God I hate politicians!

Apologies, but what have the Council down with respect to Handy X that least you to suspect 'secret handshakes' or ulterior motives? I don't see where the link is, two very different developments.

Timmy Pursey wrote:
That's why Wanderers fans will always have the moral high ground on this matter.
The fact that generations of Wanderers fans have continued to support their local club over the years and not wait for a pre packed band wagon to appear on its toes.

I remember Martin O'Neil commenting just after his arrival at Loakes Park in 1990.
"The fact that we have 1900 fans down here on a miserable Tuesday night to watch a struggling Non league side, makes me think, if we can get something going here then we might just have half a chance".

Why don't those said councillors get down to Kingsmead and back their local team ? They might even enjoy the ride !!

Very good point Tommy, I'm afraid however, that the money men have infected the game, same as will happen to to Rugby etc. 2000 onwards, Developers saw Stadiums as an easy means of obtaining planning permission for what would have otherwise been nigh impossible were it for other development. Many money men have used sport for their own selfish gain and greed rather than for the club itself.
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Contrast that behaviour with the likes of the Frank Adams' of previous years and it is a quite a sad reflection on what the game has become and why many I would suggest, choose to stay at home. I really think the future and long term sustainability will be with the supporters running their own clubs and getting sport back to the grass roots.

I love soccer, I like sport. I accept people enjoy rugby.

But I'm getting to the point that I can't watch 'professional' sport any more.

The smug, predictable TV and radio commentators nauseate me, when they speak; the players nauseate me, when they open their mouths; the managers that tell me what I should do and what I should think nauseate me; the 'we wuz robbed' managers that talk for 50 minutes about the mistake the ref made appall me.

Really appall and dismay me.

Professional golfers - yeuch. Just play, but don't talk to me!

Tennis players, hit the ball back but don't talk to me.

Just play and play well but please don't talk to me.

Please.

I've had enough.

Absolute hogwash from Colomb.
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Wasps are in this position because:
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1) They have been running at a deficit for years
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2) Hayes loaned them money to cover these losses in the hope that he could use them (and strip Wycombe Wanderers FC of its most valuable assets) to land him a big payoff on his green belt property scam up at Booker Airfield.

Timmy Pursey wrote:
That's why Wanderers fans will always have the moral high ground on this matter.
The fact that generations of Wanderers fans have continued to support their local club over the years and not wait for a pre packed band wagon to appear on its toes.

I remember Martin O'Neil commenting just after his arrival at Loakes Park in 1990.
"The fact that we have 1900 fans down here on a miserable Tuesday night to watch a struggling Non league side, makes me think, if we can get something going here then we might just have half a chance".

Why don't those said councillors get down to Kingsmead and back their local team ? They might even enjoy the ride !!

Yes - LOCAL club.

Or perhaps another headline?

"Bankruptcy of Wasps and Wanderers fails to drag down Wycombe District Council"?

Decisive action by WDC ensured that taxpayers' money was not put at risk and so council taxpayers lost nothing when Wasps and Wanderers went down the gurgler.

That looks like a much better story to me.

Voyeur wrote:
Or perhaps another headline?

"Bankruptcy of Wasps and Wanderers fails to drag down Wycombe District Council"?

Decisive action by WDC ensured that taxpayers' money was not put at risk and so council taxpayers lost nothing when Wasps and Wanderers went down the gurgler.

That looks like a much better story to me.

Yes but that would be a positive headline, something the bfp seems unable to create.

The headline says it all.
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Surely those who continue to defend the Hayes objective are still in denial that they were complicit in the possible demise of Wasps. And yes, they led the Council down the trepidatious road which almost led to another unrecoverable debt as the Iceland investment.
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They are to blame as much as Hayes.
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Might I also suggest that the local press may have been somewhat "over-enthusiastic" in their support of a potential financial disaster.

Timmy Pursey wrote:
That's why Wanderers fans will always have the moral high ground on this matter.
The fact that generations of Wanderers fans have continued to support their local club over the years and not wait for a pre packed band wagon to appear on its toes.

I remember Martin O'Neil commenting just after his arrival at Loakes Park in 1990.
"The fact that we have 1900 fans down here on a miserable Tuesday night to watch a struggling Non league side, makes me think, if we can get something going here then we might just have half a chance".

Why don't those said councillors get down to Kingsmead and back their local team ? They might even enjoy the ride !!

Quite a few of the Councillors live in their own little 'political' matey bubbles and have no love , concern or connection with the Town. Except when it comes to photoshoots , a free meal or a shindig.
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Some - like a recent MP - didn't even live in the district. They are mostly self-serving hacks with their own little incestuous gangs.. Why bother with ordinary people and residents here and the things that concern them ?
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Plus ça change... wrote:
I love soccer, I like sport. I accept people enjoy rugby.

But I'm getting to the point that I can't watch 'professional' sport any more.

The smug, predictable TV and radio commentators nauseate me, when they speak; the players nauseate me, when they open their mouths; the managers that tell me what I should do and what I should think nauseate me; the 'we wuz robbed' managers that talk for 50 minutes about the mistake the ref made appall me.

Really appall and dismay me.

Professional golfers - yeuch. Just play, but don't talk to me!

Tennis players, hit the ball back but don't talk to me.

Just play and play well but please don't talk to me.

Please.

I've had enough.

I do so agree. However you can always click the Silence or Off button.
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And if you expect most professional 'sportspeople' to talk interestingly or with some iota of intelligence, you are wishing for the moon.
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Most spend their lives kicking or hitting a ball , running (or even driving) round and round a track , lifting weights or damaging their bodies and brains in all sorts of ways. You can not expect interesting riveting conversation as well.
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That Andy Murray bloke - he could be the gold medal champion in The World Boring and Droning On Contest. I could swear he is asleep when he talks on interviews - I'm sure I've heard him snoring between sentences.

Put Hayes aside for a minute if you will.

The Council has proven beyond any doubt that they're RUBBISH. Yes that's RIGHT and their legacy will be they have been consigned the southern Bucks areas into being the waste bin of the county.

Instead of any investment in anything that could RAISE revenue, they instead created what will be a traffic and environmental nightmare and called it High Heavens WDC.

Having driven from next to Adams Park to Marlow Friday afternoon, there will be significant human damage on the very narrow lanes when all the rubbish lorries come in to dump their loads.

Or you could have had some new homes, with the tax revenue and some new buildings, with tax revenue and a stadium.

Nearsighted moppets. Rubbish the whole lot of them.

s6blr wrote:
Put Hayes aside for a minute if you will.

The Council has proven beyond any doubt that they're RUBBISH. Yes that's RIGHT and their legacy will be they have been consigned the southern Bucks areas into being the waste bin of the county.

Instead of any investment in anything that could RAISE revenue, they instead created what will be a traffic and environmental nightmare and called it High Heavens WDC.

Having driven from next to Adams Park to Marlow Friday afternoon, there will be significant human damage on the very narrow lanes when all the rubbish lorries come in to dump their loads.

Or you could have had some new homes, with the tax revenue and some new buildings, with tax revenue and a stadium.

Nearsighted moppets. Rubbish the whole lot of them.

That's a discussion for another time. This article was about WDC being to blame for Wasps going under because WDC had the temerity to refuse the Wasps owner permission to build an unsuitable housing and retail development complete with tax-payer funded white-elephant stadium all on protected land.
In addition, the town's football club would have its stadium and training facilities stripped off it with no compensation to fund it all, and have to pay the owner rent at the new ground.
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Homes can be built elsewhere without threatening to put our town's football club out of business or driving a horse and cart through green belt legislation in such a crude and profiteering manner at the tax-payer's expense.
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Some people can't just 'forget' about Hayes after all the damage he's done to professional sports clubs in the town..

s6blr wrote:
Put Hayes aside for a minute if you will.

The Council has proven beyond any doubt that they're RUBBISH. Yes that's RIGHT and their legacy will be they have been consigned the southern Bucks areas into being the waste bin of the county.

Instead of any investment in anything that could RAISE revenue, they instead created what will be a traffic and environmental nightmare and called it High Heavens WDC.

Having driven from next to Adams Park to Marlow Friday afternoon, there will be significant human damage on the very narrow lanes when all the rubbish lorries come in to dump their loads.

Or you could have had some new homes, with the tax revenue and some new buildings, with tax revenue and a stadium.

Nearsighted moppets. Rubbish the whole lot of them.

Err, Wycombe District Council, who, under the previous cabinet were pushing hard for a new stadium, aren't responsible for the proposed development at the High Heavens site, the High Heavens site, or development, was never incidental or resultant from the Stadium not going ahead. WRG, who are Bucks County Council's contractors, are responsible for the planning application at that site.
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As for tax revenue from new Homes and tax, the largest spend of many Councils is Housing benefit, while this is paid for by a grant, nevertheless, new Houses doesn't in the long term mean more investment, as it happens, Mr Hayes' team hadn't factored in the minimum of affordable Housing that these developments require which meant that any revenues from Housing would be lower than WSDL projected .
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Besides the High Wycombe plan already make provisio for a number of houses to be built so your remarks of nearsightedness are ill-informed and plain wrong.

Please sign our petition

http://www.gopetitio
n.com/petitions/peti
tion-to-wycombe-dist
rict-council-to-prov
ide-a-true/signature
s.html

or www.wycombesubaqua.c
om


We are desperately trying to get WDC to provide facility for us to continue to practice & teach scuba diving at Handy cross. If the new plans for Handy cross do not provide a like for like sports centre (currently they do not) we will be without depth for training or a store for our compressor & equipment. HWSAC has been hiring Handy Cross pool every Thursday evening for 37 years we hope to continue our use.
We have formed a petition to help convince WDC to provide for all user groups

iantcd wrote:
Please sign our petition http://www.gopetitio n.com/petitions/peti tion-to-wycombe-dist rict-council-to-prov ide-a-true/signature s.html or www.wycombesubaqua.c om We are desperately trying to get WDC to provide facility for us to continue to practice & teach scuba diving at Handy cross. If the new plans for Handy cross do not provide a like for like sports centre (currently they do not) we will be without depth for training or a store for our compressor & equipment. HWSAC has been hiring Handy Cross pool every Thursday evening for 37 years we hope to continue our use. We have formed a petition to help convince WDC to provide for all user groups

petition http://www.gopetitio n.com/petitions/peti tion-to-wycombe-dist rict-council-to-prov ide-a-true/signature s.html