Bar's launch in High Wycombe delayed by one objector

7:30am Wednesday 22nd August 2012 in News By Simon Farr

Ladies and Gentlemen bar Ladies and Gentlemen bar

THE opening of a wine bar - in arm’s reach of a live music venue - has been delayed after a sole objection over fears its music would be too loud.

Brendan Sealy, joint owner of the Ladies and Gentleman bar, fears he will be made bankrupt before his venture gets off the ground and has slammed Wycombe District Council planning and licensing policies.

But the council has said it has simply followed its legal obligations in responding to the objection.

Last Friday's opening of the wine bar and restaurant in Pauls Row, High Wycombe, was cancelled after a member of the public made an objection against the bar’s premises licence at the 11th hour.

The complaint says the music the bar would play would create a noise problem.

Mr Sealy said: "The system is ludicrous, it makes it almost unreachable for people like us - it has almost bankrupted us before we start.

"How can it be that easy for one member of the public to put us out of business?

"It’s ridiculous to say their only concern is loud music when we’re next to a live music venue."

The O’Neill’s venue is next door, while the The Snug wine bar is 14m in the opposite direction and The Falcon pub is also in close proximity.

Mr Sealy said the opening weekend closure cost him £11,000 and forced him to let go of 25 new members of staff – 22 of which came off the dole - because they couldn't wait any longer for wages.

He also spoke of his frustration at the council, which he said offered no help in processing the application, and asked why the authority's various different departments do not work more closely together to save time.

He said: "We’re green at this. We’ve only ever done pubs before where you don’t really have to worry about a premises licence, but when you’re learning you need some help."

"And why don’t they all get together at the beginning to save all the paperwork? Why doesn’t licensing tell planning, ‘when an application comes in for a change of use or a bar, let us have a peek at it’ so they can go through all the details and save each other time?"

Catherine Spalton, spokesman for Wycombe District Council, said: "We appreciate that the owner may be frustrated by the licensing process and the timescales involved, but as these are both things that are set out in law, we hope that the owner understands that we can't change them.

"The legal requirement for the consultation period is 28 days and we cannot issue a licence before the end of that period.

"The owner/applicant was made aware of all of the deadlines and the fact that we would not be able to issue a licence before 28 days of consultation, while one of our officers was helping them to complete the necessary forms - this was also later confirmed in writing."

She added that during the consultation period anyone is free to object to the licence, at any time. The council is then legally obliged to hold a licence panel hearing, for which 10 working days' notice of a hearing must be given. The hearing itself must then take place in the following 10 working days.

She said: "Planning and licensing applications are entirely separate as they consider different aspects of the usage of a building and are also covered by entirely separate legislation. Equally, the role of police and council licensing officers fulful different roles.

"Our role is to administer the licensing process, whereas the police review and ensure that the crime and disorder objectives are complied with."

Comments (27)

9:25am Wed 22 Aug 12

Darren Hayday says...

Here is a fine example of red tape bureaucracy ruling roughshod over a local business that would not only bring revenue into the town but a much needed service as Wycombe has no nightclub!
They have spent months getting the business up and ready to open and lots in advertising and marketing and because one person has decided to object, this could throw the whole venture into the red.
You couldn’t make this up could you?
I sat on the Licensing Committee in my time as a Cllr with WDC and it was really bad policy that we and business owners had to comply to. In these hard economic times, the civil servants and their political puppets find it their task to ensure that everyone suffers just so that they don’t lose face over misguided/bad policy – so many pubs and nightclubs are going out of business and when a brand new one gets ready to open – here we are = a shambles from WDC.
Here is a fine example of red tape bureaucracy ruling roughshod over a local business that would not only bring revenue into the town but a much needed service as Wycombe has no nightclub! They have spent months getting the business up and ready to open and lots in advertising and marketing and because one person has decided to object, this could throw the whole venture into the red. You couldn’t make this up could you? I sat on the Licensing Committee in my time as a Cllr with WDC and it was really bad policy that we and business owners had to comply to. In these hard economic times, the civil servants and their political puppets find it their task to ensure that everyone suffers just so that they don’t lose face over misguided/bad policy – so many pubs and nightclubs are going out of business and when a brand new one gets ready to open – here we are = a shambles from WDC. Darren Hayday

9:34am Wed 22 Aug 12

Imperturbable Lawrence says...

This is an intriguing story who or which organisation was the sole objector?

At the moment we have the story from one side only.
This is an intriguing story who or which organisation was the sole objector? At the moment we have the story from one side only. Imperturbable Lawrence

9:35am Wed 22 Aug 12

Imperturbable Lawrence says...

Imperturbable Lawrence wrote:
This is an intriguing story who or which organisation was the sole objector?

At the moment we have the story from one side only.
And what were the motives, avowed or real, of the objector?
[quote][p][bold]Imperturbable Lawrence[/bold] wrote: This is an intriguing story who or which organisation was the sole objector? At the moment we have the story from one side only.[/p][/quote]And what were the motives, avowed or real, of the objector? Imperturbable Lawrence

9:44am Wed 22 Aug 12

Mindcrusher says...

Far from being an expert in this matter, is it not a bit presumptuous to dec out a new bar/restaurant, employ staff, plan an opening event etc before you have been granted a licence? Surely you get the licence first and that’s the green light to kick on with opening the place. Whilst it doesn’t sound like the process is a particularly brilliant one, surely when you apply for a change of use you run a big risk of objectors?? Had it been a pub/club etc in a previous guise then you could have sympathy, but the owner seems to have assumed because O’Neills and The Snug are within a stone’s throw (and a timid throw at that), everything would be OK. Granted you’d think with those guys on the scene the place would have an ideal chance of getting through all of the red tape, but clearly it wasn’t bombproof.
Far from being an expert in this matter, is it not a bit presumptuous to dec out a new bar/restaurant, employ staff, plan an opening event etc before you have been granted a licence? Surely you get the licence first and that’s the green light to kick on with opening the place. Whilst it doesn’t sound like the process is a particularly brilliant one, surely when you apply for a change of use you run a big risk of objectors?? Had it been a pub/club etc in a previous guise then you could have sympathy, but the owner seems to have assumed because O’Neills and The Snug are within a stone’s throw (and a timid throw at that), everything would be OK. Granted you’d think with those guys on the scene the place would have an ideal chance of getting through all of the red tape, but clearly it wasn’t bombproof. Mindcrusher

10:12am Wed 22 Aug 12

bluebanana says...

I wonder if it was a nearby competitor who objected? I dont think you can object anonymously so Mr Sealy could probably find out who it was.

Also, the "Ladies & Gentleman" bar?! Is that the best they could come up with?!
I wonder if it was a nearby competitor who objected? I dont think you can object anonymously so Mr Sealy could probably find out who it was. Also, the "Ladies & Gentleman" bar?! Is that the best they could come up with?! bluebanana

10:27am Wed 22 Aug 12

Lucky Eddie says...

Mindcrusher wrote:
Far from being an expert in this matter, is it not a bit presumptuous to dec out a new bar/restaurant, employ staff, plan an opening event etc before you have been granted a licence? Surely you get the licence first and that’s the green light to kick on with opening the place. Whilst it doesn’t sound like the process is a particularly brilliant one, surely when you apply for a change of use you run a big risk of objectors?? Had it been a pub/club etc in a previous guise then you could have sympathy, but the owner seems to have assumed because O’Neills and The Snug are within a stone’s throw (and a timid throw at that), everything would be OK. Granted you’d think with those guys on the scene the place would have an ideal chance of getting through all of the red tape, but clearly it wasn’t bombproof.
I have to agree. The system is a pain, but it is clearly defined, as are the time scales for each step. To invest anything in the property before the licence has been issued is foolhardy at best.

Would anyone really expect a licence application to not raise at least one objection. Even when next to an existing noise source, people will have the attitude of "oh no, not more noise"

WDC has no control over the system but they are forced to comply with it.
[quote][p][bold]Mindcrusher[/bold] wrote: Far from being an expert in this matter, is it not a bit presumptuous to dec out a new bar/restaurant, employ staff, plan an opening event etc before you have been granted a licence? Surely you get the licence first and that’s the green light to kick on with opening the place. Whilst it doesn’t sound like the process is a particularly brilliant one, surely when you apply for a change of use you run a big risk of objectors?? Had it been a pub/club etc in a previous guise then you could have sympathy, but the owner seems to have assumed because O’Neills and The Snug are within a stone’s throw (and a timid throw at that), everything would be OK. Granted you’d think with those guys on the scene the place would have an ideal chance of getting through all of the red tape, but clearly it wasn’t bombproof.[/p][/quote]I have to agree. The system is a pain, but it is clearly defined, as are the time scales for each step. To invest anything in the property before the licence has been issued is foolhardy at best. Would anyone really expect a licence application to not raise at least one objection. Even when next to an existing noise source, people will have the attitude of "oh no, not more noise" WDC has no control over the system but they are forced to comply with it. Lucky Eddie

1:15pm Wed 22 Aug 12

realist_highwycombe says...

I have to agree with others. Whilst the system is a pain you do not spend all that money on a premises kitting it out when you do not have the licence to do it!

In that type of industry you never presume.

I hope it goes well but from what I have seen of entry prices after certain times being extremely high, the fact it is one of these places where you need to where "shoes and a collar" to get in etc I think I will give it a miss. Just because you wear shoes does not mean you are not an idiot - people should be judged on the way they act, not how they dress.

I also think the front windows should have been kept clear so A: You can see how busy it is and decide if you want to go in and B: You can look out and see people passing for a bit of people watching.
I have to agree with others. Whilst the system is a pain you do not spend all that money on a premises kitting it out when you do not have the licence to do it! In that type of industry you never presume. I hope it goes well but from what I have seen of entry prices after certain times being extremely high, the fact it is one of these places where you need to where "shoes and a collar" to get in etc I think I will give it a miss. Just because you wear shoes does not mean you are not an idiot - people should be judged on the way they act, not how they dress. I also think the front windows should have been kept clear so A: You can see how busy it is and decide if you want to go in and B: You can look out and see people passing for a bit of people watching. realist_highwycombe

2:45pm Wed 22 Aug 12

realist_highwycombe says...

Sorry, I have just seen my spelling in some of that post - sorry!
Sorry, I have just seen my spelling in some of that post - sorry! realist_highwycombe

3:39pm Wed 22 Aug 12

Slacker says...

Don't understand why he has sacked all of the staff, surely it is just a temporary delay? Delayed employment by a couple of weeks.

Something about this story is not adding up.
Don't understand why he has sacked all of the staff, surely it is just a temporary delay? Delayed employment by a couple of weeks. Something about this story is not adding up. Slacker

4:08pm Wed 22 Aug 12

Marmite XO says...

He said: "We’re green at this. We’ve only ever done pubs before where you don’t really have to worry about a premises licence, but when you’re learning you need some help."


Or you do your research properly.
He said: "We’re green at this. We’ve only ever done pubs before where you don’t really have to worry about a premises licence, but when you’re learning you need some help." Or you do your research properly. Marmite XO

5:25pm Wed 22 Aug 12

sparky49 says...

I feel sorry for Mr Sealy. It was probaly one of those "Yoghurt Knitters", you know the type, there the ones that banned smoking in pubs because they didn't like it even those these people never go out any where, they just excist to make every body else's life a misery because they are sad friendless people.
I feel sorry for Mr Sealy. It was probaly one of those "Yoghurt Knitters", you know the type, there the ones that banned smoking in pubs because they didn't like it even those these people never go out any where, they just excist to make every body else's life a misery because they are sad friendless people. sparky49

5:40pm Wed 22 Aug 12

s6blr says...

Was the person objecting named Ivor by chance?
Was the person objecting named Ivor by chance? s6blr

6:54pm Wed 22 Aug 12

gpn01 says...

sparky49 wrote:
I feel sorry for Mr Sealy. It was probaly one of those "Yoghurt Knitters", you know the type, there the ones that banned smoking in pubs because they didn't like it even those these people never go out any where, they just excist to make every body else's life a misery because they are sad friendless people.
And are you one of those people who would have complained if it was your objection and the Council chose to ignore the rules and disregard it?
[quote][p][bold]sparky49[/bold] wrote: I feel sorry for Mr Sealy. It was probaly one of those "Yoghurt Knitters", you know the type, there the ones that banned smoking in pubs because they didn't like it even those these people never go out any where, they just excist to make every body else's life a misery because they are sad friendless people.[/p][/quote]And are you one of those people who would have complained if it was your objection and the Council chose to ignore the rules and disregard it? gpn01

7:26pm Wed 22 Aug 12

ivor says...

I am pleased to hear that an objection has been submitted.
~
There are far too many places like this in Wycombe already and as far as I am concerned the fewer places we have in town selling the drink of Lucifer the better.
~
What we need are places providing proper, wholesome entertainments in Wycombe and not having to suffer alcohol fuelled drunken yobbos running around the town centre after dark.
~
Lets hope sense prevails and the powers that be reject the license application. While they are at it maybe they could close down some of the nearby drinking establishments too?
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.
I am pleased to hear that an objection has been submitted. ~ There are far too many places like this in Wycombe already and as far as I am concerned the fewer places we have in town selling the drink of Lucifer the better. ~ What we need are places providing proper, wholesome entertainments in Wycombe and not having to suffer alcohol fuelled drunken yobbos running around the town centre after dark. ~ Lets hope sense prevails and the powers that be reject the license application. While they are at it maybe they could close down some of the nearby drinking establishments too? ~ Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page. ivor

9:46pm Wed 22 Aug 12

small one says...

s6blr wrote:
Was the person objecting named Ivor by chance?
hahahaha :)
[quote][p][bold]s6blr[/bold] wrote: Was the person objecting named Ivor by chance?[/p][/quote]hahahaha :) small one

10:41pm Wed 22 Aug 12

Imperturbable Lawrence says...

s6blr wrote:
Was the person objecting named Ivor by chance?
Speak of the devil and you are sure to read his posts confirming everybody's worst expectations.


I am pleased to hear that an objection has been submitted.
~
There are far too many places like this in Wycombe already and as far as I am concerned the fewer places we have in town selling the drink of Lucifer the better.
~
What we need are places providing proper, wholesome entertainments in Wycombe


LOL
[quote][p][bold]s6blr[/bold] wrote: Was the person objecting named Ivor by chance?[/p][/quote]Speak of the devil and you are sure to read his posts confirming everybody's worst expectations. [quote] I am pleased to hear that an objection has been submitted. ~ There are far too many places like this in Wycombe already and as far as I am concerned the fewer places we have in town selling the drink of Lucifer the better. ~ What we need are places providing proper, wholesome entertainments in Wycombe [/quote] LOL Imperturbable Lawrence

10:57pm Wed 22 Aug 12

demoness the second says...

ivor wrote:
I am pleased to hear that an objection has been submitted.
~
There are far too many places like this in Wycombe already and as far as I am concerned the fewer places we have in town selling the drink of Lucifer the better.
~
What we need are places providing proper, wholesome entertainments in Wycombe and not having to suffer alcohol fuelled drunken yobbos running around the town centre after dark.
~
Lets hope sense prevails and the powers that be reject the license application. While they are at it maybe they could close down some of the nearby drinking establishments too?
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.
Nit.
[quote][p][bold]ivor[/bold] wrote: I am pleased to hear that an objection has been submitted. ~ There are far too many places like this in Wycombe already and as far as I am concerned the fewer places we have in town selling the drink of Lucifer the better. ~ What we need are places providing proper, wholesome entertainments in Wycombe and not having to suffer alcohol fuelled drunken yobbos running around the town centre after dark. ~ Lets hope sense prevails and the powers that be reject the license application. While they are at it maybe they could close down some of the nearby drinking establishments too? ~ Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.[/p][/quote]Nit. demoness the second

12:37pm Thu 23 Aug 12

Anydaynow says...

Well I for one would like to see the place open, being part of the 'older' generation I hate going into town of a evening (which is very rare these days) as it's full of students and drunken people it completely ruins a night for me.
I feel so out of place so a nice establishment where you can go and socialise in an upmarket venue sounds great.
Good luck to these guys for trying something new - I am looking forward to it.
Well I for one would like to see the place open, being part of the 'older' generation I hate going into town of a evening (which is very rare these days) as it's full of students and drunken people it completely ruins a night for me. I feel so out of place so a nice establishment where you can go and socialise in an upmarket venue sounds great. Good luck to these guys for trying something new - I am looking forward to it. Anydaynow

12:43pm Thu 23 Aug 12

Fit2drop says...

I this the same Mr Sealey that cimbed on the council office roof as he had nowhere to live? If so the boy seems to have done good pretty quickly.
I this the same Mr Sealey that cimbed on the council office roof as he had nowhere to live? If so the boy seems to have done good pretty quickly. Fit2drop

1:02pm Thu 23 Aug 12

gungun says...

Yeah that'll be him
Yeah that'll be him gungun

3:07pm Thu 23 Aug 12

Veritad Veritad says...

Fit2drop wrote:
I this the same Mr Sealey that cimbed on the council office roof as he had nowhere to live? If so the boy seems to have done good pretty quickly.
Yes, the very same person. Costs the tax payer quite a lot when people do things like. Police turned up obviously and then the Fire Service with one of those hydraulic lift/platform things to bring him down safely to a crowd of family and friends that had turned up to cheer from the roadside. Complete waste of our money so I don't feel particulary moved by his £11k loss
[quote][p][bold]Fit2drop[/bold] wrote: I this the same Mr Sealey that cimbed on the council office roof as he had nowhere to live? If so the boy seems to have done good pretty quickly.[/p][/quote]Yes, the very same person. Costs the tax payer quite a lot when people do things like. Police turned up obviously and then the Fire Service with one of those hydraulic lift/platform things to bring him down safely to a crowd of family and friends that had turned up to cheer from the roadside. Complete waste of our money so I don't feel particulary moved by his £11k loss Veritad Veritad

3:22pm Thu 23 Aug 12

BennyBumBleed says...

"Wine bar"...?! Is it 1987 again?
"Wine bar"...?! Is it 1987 again? BennyBumBleed

3:31pm Thu 23 Aug 12

Veritad Veritad says...

BennyBumBleed wrote:
"Wine bar"...?! Is it 1987 again?
I wish. Those were the days
[quote][p][bold]BennyBumBleed[/bold] wrote: "Wine bar"...?! Is it 1987 again?[/p][/quote]I wish. Those were the days Veritad Veritad

6:27pm Thu 23 Aug 12

realist_highwycombe says...

Anydaynow wrote:
Well I for one would like to see the place open, being part of the 'older' generation I hate going into town of a evening (which is very rare these days) as it's full of students and drunken people it completely ruins a night for me.
I feel so out of place so a nice establishment where you can go and socialise in an upmarket venue sounds great.
Good luck to these guys for trying something new - I am looking forward to it.
I would actually agree with you but this is not a nice, grown up wine bar - Try and get hold of a flyer. It is plastered with lines such as "Strictly dress to impress - No shoes, no collar No entry!" etc etc. I mean seriously? This really will not be the sort of place to go with the wife for a relaxed bottle.

It will be full of idiots dressed strictly to impress drinking over priced wine and "champagne".

It had great potential but the whole decor and advertising is all wrong.

If you want to attract theatre goers, nice, honest hard working people then say that and show that. But they clearly dont....
[quote][p][bold]Anydaynow[/bold] wrote: Well I for one would like to see the place open, being part of the 'older' generation I hate going into town of a evening (which is very rare these days) as it's full of students and drunken people it completely ruins a night for me. I feel so out of place so a nice establishment where you can go and socialise in an upmarket venue sounds great. Good luck to these guys for trying something new - I am looking forward to it.[/p][/quote]I would actually agree with you but this is not a nice, grown up wine bar - Try and get hold of a flyer. It is plastered with lines such as "Strictly dress to impress - No shoes, no collar No entry!" etc etc. I mean seriously? This really will not be the sort of place to go with the wife for a relaxed bottle. It will be full of idiots dressed strictly to impress drinking over priced wine and "champagne". It had great potential but the whole decor and advertising is all wrong. If you want to attract theatre goers, nice, honest hard working people then say that and show that. But they clearly dont.... realist_highwycombe

10:55pm Thu 23 Aug 12

gpn01 says...

I find it quite amusing that an article purporting to be about a bar that's aiming to generate busines for the area has an embedded advertisment for free parking at the Harlequin Shopping Centre...IN WATFORD!
I find it quite amusing that an article purporting to be about a bar that's aiming to generate busines for the area has an embedded advertisment for free parking at the Harlequin Shopping Centre...IN WATFORD! gpn01

7:04pm Sat 25 Aug 12

wycombe resident says...

Imperturbable Lawrence wrote:
This is an intriguing story who or which organisation was the sole objector?

At the moment we have the story from one side only.
Yes, and you need to remember that this is the man who managed to run the Downley Donkey pub into the ground. Only one objection? - there's a surprise!
[quote][p][bold]Imperturbable Lawrence[/bold] wrote: This is an intriguing story who or which organisation was the sole objector? At the moment we have the story from one side only.[/p][/quote]Yes, and you need to remember that this is the man who managed to run the Downley Donkey pub into the ground. Only one objection? - there's a surprise! wycombe resident

1:19pm Tue 28 Aug 12

_Igor_ says...

ivor wrote:
I am pleased to hear that an objection has been submitted.
~
There are far too many places like this in Wycombe already and as far as I am concerned the fewer places we have in town selling the drink of Lucifer the better.
~
What we need are places providing proper, wholesome entertainments in Wycombe and not having to suffer alcohol fuelled drunken yobbos running around the town centre after dark.
~
Lets hope sense prevails and the powers that be reject the license application. While they are at it maybe they could close down some of the nearby drinking establishments too?
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.
I whole-heartedly concur.
[quote][p][bold]ivor[/bold] wrote: I am pleased to hear that an objection has been submitted. ~ There are far too many places like this in Wycombe already and as far as I am concerned the fewer places we have in town selling the drink of Lucifer the better. ~ What we need are places providing proper, wholesome entertainments in Wycombe and not having to suffer alcohol fuelled drunken yobbos running around the town centre after dark. ~ Lets hope sense prevails and the powers that be reject the license application. While they are at it maybe they could close down some of the nearby drinking establishments too? ~ Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.[/p][/quote]I whole-heartedly concur. _Igor_

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