'What about Stoke Mandeville?' asks Dr Annet Gamell

Bucks Free Press: Dr Gamell Dr Gamell

Editor's note: See below

A LEADING Buckinghamshire GP has welcomed proposals to build a regional ‘super hospital’ - but said there are concerns about the impact it would have on Stoke Mandeville Hospital.

Wycombe GP Dr Annet Gamell, of Chiltern Clinical Commissioning Group, was reacting to proposals from a Berkshire MP to build a new hospital at Junction 8/9 of the M4.

At a meeting in Marlow on Friday, Dr Gamell questioned what would happen to the current Buckinghamshire hospital buildings created by private finance [PFI] which have "very long payment terms".

She added Stoke Mandeville is already a centre of excellence and relies on thousands of patients from Wycombe using its services.

She asked whether a new hospital would also have to be created in north Bucks, but added: "I’d like to say how much we welcome the proposal and the debate and discussion... [we] haven’t made our minds up either way."

The radical plans have been drawn up by Dr Phillip Lee, MP for Bracknell.

Responding to Dr Gamell, he suggested there are ways to 'buy out' PFI contracts, saying Stoke Mandeville is not an appropriate location for a major hospital because the transport links are "frankly not good enough... it’s just not in the right location".

He added there could be an argument for combining the Aylesbury and Milton Keynes populations when organising hospital services in the north of the county, but said: "It needs a national plan to centralise the location of hospitals. I wish that had been done or was ongoing now."

Paul Henry, also of Chiltern CCG, said Dr Lee’s proposal sounds like a "really good idea", but fears "the spectre" of it could hold up progress already being made to centralise services.

But Dr Lee replied: "I intentionally stuck this out there to stir this up and cause trouble. I understand it causes difficulties, but I’m sorry, it was about time these difficulties were caused....

"There’s never a sense of strategy, it’s just make-do-and-mend. That’s what they are doing at Heatherwood and the system is creaking.

"I don’t make any apology for putting a spanner in the works and challenging decisions that were made in the past - they were the wrong decisions."

Following publication Dr Gamell has asked us to clarify that she welcomes the 'discussion and the debate’ around the proposal, rather than the proposal itself. 

Comments (10)

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3:34pm Thu 13 Sep 12

Darren Hayday says...

How about what we the patients want rather than what the Dr's want?

It would be 'us' that pay for all of this.

As I undertand it (and I maybe wrong) but I though one of the reasons that the Dr's/Consultants didn't like working in Wycombe was because of the bad parking facilities, high cost of housing and something also to do with the EU working time directives (that being a national issue of course).
How about what we the patients want rather than what the Dr's want? It would be 'us' that pay for all of this. As I undertand it (and I maybe wrong) but I though one of the reasons that the Dr's/Consultants didn't like working in Wycombe was because of the bad parking facilities, high cost of housing and something also to do with the EU working time directives (that being a national issue of course). Darren Hayday
  • Score: 0

8:31pm Thu 13 Sep 12

Marsh Wanderer says...

'What about Stoke Mandeville?' asks Dr Annet Gamell

What about Wycombe Hospital asks the people of Wycombe, we didn't want our services moved to stoke murderville so why would we worry about the place if the option of a nearer hospital becomes available
'What about Stoke Mandeville?' asks Dr Annet Gamell What about Wycombe Hospital asks the people of Wycombe, we didn't want our services moved to stoke murderville so why would we worry about the place if the option of a nearer hospital becomes available Marsh Wanderer
  • Score: 0

9:13am Fri 14 Sep 12

stevet123 says...

Stoke manderville will survive, even without wycombes people, as from what i gather from people i have spoken to, that they are under staffed, A&E under great pressure, people have to wait longer for out patients appointments, i say Build a new Hospital at Booker airfield or off J4 of the M40. KEEP WYCOMBE HOSPITAL
Stoke manderville will survive, even without wycombes people, as from what i gather from people i have spoken to, that they are under staffed, A&E under great pressure, people have to wait longer for out patients appointments, i say Build a new Hospital at Booker airfield or off J4 of the M40. KEEP WYCOMBE HOSPITAL stevet123
  • Score: 0

9:46am Sat 15 Sep 12

DonRockell says...

Stoke is a very long way from those in the Thames valley to be able to use it - even those from Wycombe struggle to get there and in an emergency it could prove to be a question of life and death when services formally at Wycombe are removed.

if you live in this area its far easier to access services at Oxford, Wexham Park or even Reading and London than Stoke and that's why People are being affected by the moves

The problem is that by using these other Hospitals is that it will take money away from the bucks hospital trust as patents vote with their feet to use the more accessible NHS sites.
Stoke is a very long way from those in the Thames valley to be able to use it - even those from Wycombe struggle to get there and in an emergency it could prove to be a question of life and death when services formally at Wycombe are removed. if you live in this area its far easier to access services at Oxford, Wexham Park or even Reading and London than Stoke and that's why People are being affected by the moves The problem is that by using these other Hospitals is that it will take money away from the bucks hospital trust as patents vote with their feet to use the more accessible NHS sites. DonRockell
  • Score: 0

1:46pm Sun 16 Sep 12

richardoxuk says...

I really begin to wonder just why these doctors keep pushing Stoke Mandeville as if it's the only possible place for centralised hospital services.
It is possibly one of the worst places for a centralised service given its unfortunate siting & the associated poor transport services etc>
I recent study by university researchers over 4 years found that for each extra 6 miles travelled - class A emergencies had 20% more deaths - aat that rate some 49%+- of wycombe patients who are priority emergency admissions - could be expected to die on the way to Stoke Mandeville from Wycombe.
This proposal form the MP deserves serious and open-minded review.
I dont expect that however from the closed minds of the Bucks medical establishment given their record.
I really begin to wonder just why these doctors keep pushing Stoke Mandeville as if it's the only possible place for centralised hospital services. It is possibly one of the worst places for a centralised service given its unfortunate siting & the associated poor transport services etc> I recent study by university researchers over 4 years found that for each extra 6 miles travelled - class A emergencies had 20% more deaths - aat that rate some 49%+- of wycombe patients who are priority emergency admissions - could be expected to die on the way to Stoke Mandeville from Wycombe. This proposal form the MP deserves serious and open-minded review. I dont expect that however from the closed minds of the Bucks medical establishment given their record. richardoxuk
  • Score: 0

5:59pm Sun 16 Sep 12

stevet123 says...

richardoxuk wrote:
I really begin to wonder just why these doctors keep pushing Stoke Mandeville as if it's the only possible place for centralised hospital services.
It is possibly one of the worst places for a centralised service given its unfortunate siting & the associated poor transport services etc>
I recent study by university researchers over 4 years found that for each extra 6 miles travelled - class A emergencies had 20% more deaths - aat that rate some 49%+- of wycombe patients who are priority emergency admissions - could be expected to die on the way to Stoke Mandeville from Wycombe.
This proposal form the MP deserves serious and open-minded review.
I dont expect that however from the closed minds of the Bucks medical establishment given their record.
In real terms, we should be looking at a Hospital in high wycombe, and the ideal spot is the old USAF / RAF Base at Daws hill, even space to put in emrgancy exits from the M40, noT housing there, and i hope the Residents of Daws hill would agree too, The NHS has to stop promoting Stoke Manderville as and its transport links are no good for the High Wycombe people
[quote][p][bold]richardoxuk[/bold] wrote: I really begin to wonder just why these doctors keep pushing Stoke Mandeville as if it's the only possible place for centralised hospital services. It is possibly one of the worst places for a centralised service given its unfortunate siting & the associated poor transport services etc> I recent study by university researchers over 4 years found that for each extra 6 miles travelled - class A emergencies had 20% more deaths - aat that rate some 49%+- of wycombe patients who are priority emergency admissions - could be expected to die on the way to Stoke Mandeville from Wycombe. This proposal form the MP deserves serious and open-minded review. I dont expect that however from the closed minds of the Bucks medical establishment given their record.[/p][/quote]In real terms, we should be looking at a Hospital in high wycombe, and the ideal spot is the old USAF / RAF Base at Daws hill, even space to put in emrgancy exits from the M40, noT housing there, and i hope the Residents of Daws hill would agree too, The NHS has to stop promoting Stoke Manderville as and its transport links are no good for the High Wycombe people stevet123
  • Score: 0

8:29am Tue 18 Sep 12

richardoxuk says...

I keep asking myself just why does this Chilterns "commissioning group"
keep pushing Stoke Mandeville against all common-sense and reason (and patient benefit)???
Figures published show that this group will have about £1000 pa for each person on their books BUT the
residue left to "fund treatments" after deducting their pay/perks/expenses etc etc will necessarily be somewhat smaller???
As a Russians saying goes: "one's own shirt is closest to the chest" -
Choosing SM may well leave more acorns in the trough -
Is this perhaps a more plausible reason behind their
mindless enthusiasm for that wretched site???
Wycombe people who have paid into the NHS for many years deserve better than that!!!!
I keep asking myself just why does this Chilterns "commissioning group" keep pushing Stoke Mandeville against all common-sense and reason (and patient benefit)??? Figures published show that this group will have about £1000 pa for each person on their books BUT the residue left to "fund treatments" after deducting their pay/perks/expenses etc etc will necessarily be somewhat smaller??? As a Russians saying goes: "one's own shirt is closest to the chest" - Choosing SM may well leave more acorns in the trough - Is this perhaps a more plausible reason behind their mindless enthusiasm for that wretched site??? Wycombe people who have paid into the NHS for many years deserve better than that!!!! richardoxuk
  • Score: 0

9:16am Wed 19 Sep 12

QualityCare4all says...

richardoxuk asks: "I keep asking myself just why does this Chilterns "commissioning group"
keep pushing Stoke Mandeville against all common-sense and reason (and patient benefit)???"

I think it is important to remember that Chiltern CCG is not actually responsible for any of the changes happening to the NHS in Wycombe area - yet!

It is the Bucks PCT and the Buckinghamshire Healthcare Trust (The hospital) that have drawn up the proposlas that shift some services to Wycombe hospital from SMH and some from from Wycombe to SMH.

Also remember they told us this is all about improving the quality of services NOT saving money.

The reality is that the CCGs in both parts of Bucks are likely to find that they do not have enough money to buy the healthcare we need. So they will be cutting services, rationing care and making it harder for us to see a consultant.

Even if they did save money the CCG will only be bale to use the surplus to improve services.

There is some weird and wonderful idea that GP surgeries should be rewarded for reducing referrals to hospital but most GPs are against that idea because they know their patient need to see a consultant when neccessary.

The idea of a super hsopital does not help to improve services for those of us who live in Buckinghamshire. If anything it will make it worse as more money goes into a big building and less into healthcare in the community.
richardoxuk asks: "I keep asking myself just why does this Chilterns "commissioning group" keep pushing Stoke Mandeville against all common-sense and reason (and patient benefit)???" I think it is important to remember that Chiltern CCG is not actually responsible for any of the changes happening to the NHS in Wycombe area - yet! It is the Bucks PCT and the Buckinghamshire Healthcare Trust (The hospital) that have drawn up the proposlas that shift some services to Wycombe hospital from SMH and some from from Wycombe to SMH. Also remember they told us this is all about improving the quality of services NOT saving money. The reality is that the CCGs in both parts of Bucks are likely to find that they do not have enough money to buy the healthcare we need. So they will be cutting services, rationing care and making it harder for us to see a consultant. Even if they did save money the CCG will only be bale to use the surplus to improve services. There is some weird and wonderful idea that GP surgeries should be rewarded for reducing referrals to hospital but most GPs are against that idea because they know their patient need to see a consultant when neccessary. The idea of a super hsopital does not help to improve services for those of us who live in Buckinghamshire. If anything it will make it worse as more money goes into a big building and less into healthcare in the community. QualityCare4all
  • Score: 0

11:24am Thu 20 Sep 12

richardoxuk says...

QualityCare4all wrote:
richardoxuk asks: "I keep asking myself just why does this Chilterns "commissioning group"
keep pushing Stoke Mandeville against all common-sense and reason (and patient benefit)???"

I think it is important to remember that Chiltern CCG is not actually responsible for any of the changes happening to the NHS in Wycombe area - yet!

It is the Bucks PCT and the Buckinghamshire Healthcare Trust (The hospital) that have drawn up the proposlas that shift some services to Wycombe hospital from SMH and some from from Wycombe to SMH.

Also remember they told us this is all about improving the quality of services NOT saving money.

The reality is that the CCGs in both parts of Bucks are likely to find that they do not have enough money to buy the healthcare we need. So they will be cutting services, rationing care and making it harder for us to see a consultant.

Even if they did save money the CCG will only be bale to use the surplus to improve services.

There is some weird and wonderful idea that GP surgeries should be rewarded for reducing referrals to hospital but most GPs are against that idea because they know their patient need to see a consultant when neccessary.

The idea of a super hsopital does not help to improve services for those of us who live in Buckinghamshire. If anything it will make it worse as more money goes into a big building and less into healthcare in the community.
Fair comment - but the CCG is the immediate future for Bucks (from April 2103) and it's their spokesperson raining the issue - and they of course will be making the decisions on who should be treated and where etc.
This is all BEFORE the private health sharks - virgin/serco etc etc get their snouts into the NHS trough...
[quote][p][bold]QualityCare4all[/bold] wrote: richardoxuk asks: "I keep asking myself just why does this Chilterns "commissioning group" keep pushing Stoke Mandeville against all common-sense and reason (and patient benefit)???" I think it is important to remember that Chiltern CCG is not actually responsible for any of the changes happening to the NHS in Wycombe area - yet! It is the Bucks PCT and the Buckinghamshire Healthcare Trust (The hospital) that have drawn up the proposlas that shift some services to Wycombe hospital from SMH and some from from Wycombe to SMH. Also remember they told us this is all about improving the quality of services NOT saving money. The reality is that the CCGs in both parts of Bucks are likely to find that they do not have enough money to buy the healthcare we need. So they will be cutting services, rationing care and making it harder for us to see a consultant. Even if they did save money the CCG will only be bale to use the surplus to improve services. There is some weird and wonderful idea that GP surgeries should be rewarded for reducing referrals to hospital but most GPs are against that idea because they know their patient need to see a consultant when neccessary. The idea of a super hsopital does not help to improve services for those of us who live in Buckinghamshire. If anything it will make it worse as more money goes into a big building and less into healthcare in the community.[/p][/quote]Fair comment - but the CCG is the immediate future for Bucks (from April 2103) and it's their spokesperson raining the issue - and they of course will be making the decisions on who should be treated and where etc. This is all BEFORE the private health sharks - virgin/serco etc etc get their snouts into the NHS trough... richardoxuk
  • Score: 0

1:43pm Sat 22 Sep 12

QualityCare4all says...

I agree that the CCGs are the future decision makers. But they have to involve the public in any decisions they make.
So we need to tell them that we don't want our hospitals reduced in size and services going to private companies.

I see that Dr Gamell does not endorse the proposal but welcomes the debate.

Sowe should have a debate on what we want our local hospitals to look like, what services should they provide and where.

Ohhh Hang on. We just did that didn't we. It was called "Better Healthcare in Bucks". Silly me.
I agree that the CCGs are the future decision makers. But they have to involve the public in any decisions they make. So we need to tell them that we don't want our hospitals reduced in size and services going to private companies. I see that Dr Gamell does not endorse the proposal but welcomes the debate. Sowe should have a debate on what we want our local hospitals to look like, what services should they provide and where. Ohhh Hang on. We just did that didn't we. It was called "Better Healthcare in Bucks". Silly me. QualityCare4all
  • Score: 0

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