Hayes: Council need to step up now (From Bucks Free Press)

Lets not forget that he is a property developer and left as soon as he could not develop the green belt land for housing.

I thought we had seen the last of this goon.

Mr Hayes is one of a good many self styled "entrepreneurs" who have driven this country into the mud.

Purportedly the "oxygen" of our economy, employing vast swathes of the population, these scumbags are actually taking us all for a merry ride on the back of debt instruments that allow them to mortgage their companies and our country to the hilt, and then walk of when the bubble bursts with a large property portfolio paid off and capital "safely" offshore.

One day Hayes and his ilk will be brought to account and made to realise that life is not just about getting a new shirt out of the packet every day and looking part; it's actually about BEING the part - in the way you think and the way you act.

Turrah douche bag.

Is he still on Bail?

Dear Mr Hayes & new owners of Wasps.

WDC hasn’t closed its doors to both clubs.
The local residents do not want a Sports Stadium/Village in Booker.
If this option were to arise again, we will continue to kick it out (again).
There are other sites to look at in the district (i.e. Abbey Barn Lane springs to mind)
Yes you are right – you did make mistakes.
There are also other options to consider of which Alex has outlined in the past (and which he is more than happy to discuss directly with the new owners of the clubs).

Memorable photo by the way, you can see him trying to bury is head in his chest, he is so embarrassed by himself and what he stands for.

Perhaps if he became a little more flexible, he could stick his head somewhere the sun does not shine?

I expect even the kids have seen past the "daddy" mirage and think he's a t@sser too!

gungun wrote:
Is he still on Bail?

I was wondering how long Mr Hayes will be 'Helping the Police with their enquiries regarding the Computers Misuse Act'?

BucksComment wrote:
Lets not forget that he is a property developer and left as soon as he could not develop the green belt land for housing.

Wrong. He wanted to be a property developer. Mind you, he would have been as inept at that as most of his other venutures. He made his money by being lucky, very lucky, being in the right place at the right time. I don't suppose lightning will strike twice.
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Shame the supposed intelligencia of Bucks New University couldn't see through all this when they honoured him.

geoffW wrote:

BucksComment wrote: Lets not forget that he is a property developer and left as soon as he could not develop the green belt land for housing.

Wrong. He wanted to be a property developer. Mind you, he would have been as inept at that as most of his other venutures. He made his money by being lucky, very lucky, being in the right place at the right time. I don't suppose lightning will strike twice. . Shame the supposed intelligencia of Bucks New University couldn't see through all this when they honoured him.

Sshhhh - don't mention lightning!

Crocodile tears.

"Shortly after the decision not to proceed with the Sports Village was taken by Wycombe District Council, I felt that I had to pass the baton on to new owners who could take the clubs forward in different directions".
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I thought this had been put to bed and yet the ghosts of false memories seem to haunt some people....
WDC DID NOT decide to not proceed with a Sports Village. The whole "Sports Village" concept was an additional, potential, future aspiration that was exploited by those with vested interests to give the project the appearance of providing something for the community (other than an incredibl expensive white elephant).
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Having already spend £500,000 on the Issues & Options for a STADIUM (note no mention here of a sports village), the Council decided that the risks outweighed the potential benefits and voted to stop the project.
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IF the rugby & football clubs had wished to proceed then they could have, provided they could raise the £67 Million themselves, instead of relying on the local ratepayers to pay for it. I seem to recall at the WDC Cabinet meeting on 18th July doubts being expressed as to whether the Clubs had provided evidence of their ability to fund even part of the project, so I guess £67M would be even harder to come by...but probably represents what a new stadium is likely to cost irrespective of whether it is built locally or not.
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The comment ""I was quite dismayed however by Wycombe District Council leader Cllr Alex Collingwood’s seemingly complacent assertion in comments relating to the sports village that Wasps won’t move from Wycombe because the numbers don’t add up for them to go as it would be too costly. " is easily rebuked when one considers how much London Wasps currently pays for the use of Adams Park versus how much a new stadium would cost. Whilst rental details aren't publicly available (and London Wasp's Annual Accounts STILL haven't been published) it would seem reasonable to guestimate that it currently costs London Wasps somewhere between zero and 1/2 Million pounds p.a. A new stadium would cost at least £30M...and the debt interest financing on that alone would be at least £1.5M p.a. As WDC's Leader suggests, the numbers for moving simply don't stack up.

geoffW wrote:

BucksComment wrote:
Lets not forget that he is a property developer and left as soon as he could not develop the green belt land for housing.

Wrong. He wanted to be a property developer. Mind you, he would have been as inept at that as most of his other venutures. He made his money by being lucky, very lucky, being in the right place at the right time. I don't suppose lightning will strike twice.
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Shame the supposed intelligencia of Bucks New University couldn't see through all this when they honoured him.

He was as lucky as Al Capone or Bugsy Malone or the 'Mafia' were in choosing their operating patches.
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However the difference between those alleged gangsters and alleged crooks is/was that they chose Chicago or NewYork etc but Mr Hayes chose Wycombe for his plans and empire.
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He chose unwisely - he had been previously lucky with his double glazing schemes and his sub-prime businesses but he came unstuck on his Big Stadium and building projects.
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All these types take a step too far eventually and fall. Because they cannot help themselves. It's all part of their inherent ego / id driven behaviour. Allegedly.

As far as I am concerned the sooner the rugby club leaves Wycombe the better. Goodbye and good riddance to them....
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

You too Bigot are yet another millstone around this area's neck, one which continually smears and lies about our town and abuses and denigrates its folk also.
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The sooner you leave this area the better for all decent folk in this region.
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I will not debate / discuss anything with you as you are a proven liar , a source of twisted / perverted practices and views and an all round utter scoundrel.
.
Begone and disappear - as befits the foul noxious evil smell and chancer that you are.

ivor wrote:
As far as I am concerned the sooner the rugby club leaves Wycombe the better. Goodbye and good riddance to them....
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

Why? If they can make a positive contribution to the area, why would you object to them remaining and being good for the District?

A successful Wasps (and Wanderers) in Wycombe would be great.
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What we don't need is an owner with a "look at me" attitude, telling everyone that he is doing them a favour by being in the town and then trying to stiff the taxpayers out of millions to support his ego trip, his bank balance and to cover up the fact that both clubs were very poorly run ... by him.

gpn01 wrote:

ivor wrote:
As far as I am concerned the sooner the rugby club leaves Wycombe the better. Goodbye and good riddance to them....
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

Why? If they can make a positive contribution to the area, why would you object to them remaining and being good for the District?

If the rugby club remains in the area sooner or later the issue of a new stadium will rise up again and Booker will be under threat once more.
~
If they leave the area then the good, law abiding residents of Booker can rest in peace knowing their area of outstanding natural beauty will not be blighted with a dreadful stadium.
~
Maybe next time we will not be so lucky and a new stadium will be built....
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

gpn01 wrote:
"Shortly after the decision not to proceed with the Sports Village was taken by Wycombe District Council, I felt that I had to pass the baton on to new owners who could take the clubs forward in different directions".
.
I thought this had been put to bed and yet the ghosts of false memories seem to haunt some people....
WDC DID NOT decide to not proceed with a Sports Village. The whole "Sports Village" concept was an additional, potential, future aspiration that was exploited by those with vested interests to give the project the appearance of providing something for the community (other than an incredibl expensive white elephant).
.
Having already spend £500,000 on the Issues & Options for a STADIUM (note no mention here of a sports village), the Council decided that the risks outweighed the potential benefits and voted to stop the project.
.
IF the rugby & football clubs had wished to proceed then they could have, provided they could raise the £67 Million themselves, instead of relying on the local ratepayers to pay for it. I seem to recall at the WDC Cabinet meeting on 18th July doubts being expressed as to whether the Clubs had provided evidence of their ability to fund even part of the project, so I guess £67M would be even harder to come by...but probably represents what a new stadium is likely to cost irrespective of whether it is built locally or not.
.
The comment ""I was quite dismayed however by Wycombe District Council leader Cllr Alex Collingwood’s seemingly complacent assertion in comments relating to the sports village that Wasps won’t move from Wycombe because the numbers don’t add up for them to go as it would be too costly. " is easily rebuked when one considers how much London Wasps currently pays for the use of Adams Park versus how much a new stadium would cost. Whilst rental details aren't publicly available (and London Wasp's Annual Accounts STILL haven't been published) it would seem reasonable to guestimate that it currently costs London Wasps somewhere between zero and 1/2 Million pounds p.a. A new stadium would cost at least £30M...and the debt interest financing on that alone would be at least £1.5M p.a. As WDC's Leader suggests, the numbers for moving simply don't stack up.

All this is worth saying ‘gpn01’ – the scheme was part-spun as a definite 'sports village' by supporters from an early stage, although it was merely a possibility if the stadium succeeded, and your speculations about future finances are made in the absence of accounts, but seem based on reasonable estimates of facts.


Mr Hayes has had a lot on his plate and he has relinquished control to local supporters of the two clubs so they can move on - but what he has said here seems light on fact and detail and heavier on wishes and aspirations.

(and regrets!)

ivor wrote:
As far as I am concerned the sooner the rugby club leaves Wycombe the better. Goodbye and good riddance to them....
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

This is a silly self-indulgent comment.

ivor wrote:

gpn01 wrote:

ivor wrote:
As far as I am concerned the sooner the rugby club leaves Wycombe the better. Goodbye and good riddance to them....
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

Why? If they can make a positive contribution to the area, why would you object to them remaining and being good for the District?

If the rugby club remains in the area sooner or later the issue of a new stadium will rise up again and Booker will be under threat once more.
~
If they leave the area then the good, law abiding residents of Booker can rest in peace knowing their area of outstanding natural beauty will not be blighted with a dreadful stadium.
~
Maybe next time we will not be so lucky and a new stadium will be built....
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

I think you're falling for some of the spin yourself...Why would London Wasps need to move to a new stadium? The current one has sufficient capacity and the capability (given investment) to be developed. In the event that a new stadium was proposed, and the club secured its own funding instead of expecting ratepayers to pay for it, why would that put Booker under threat again? Seem to recall WDC assessed 17 sites as part of the initial site options. Booker was favoured only because it provided a means for WDC to raise money to build a new stadium for the clubs. If self-funded then there'd be no need to sell off Council assets...and that would bring some of the alternate sites back into consideration.

Why is Hayes obsessed with having the council as a partner in these sorts of projects? Doesn't he realise that the council is run on taxpayers' money? If you want to get a project up, just get some solid financial backing, some reasonable project managers and do the business. Not a taxpayers' pound in sight!

J B Blackett wrote:
You too Bigot are yet another millstone around this area's neck, one which continually smears and lies about our town and abuses and denigrates its folk also.
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The sooner you leave this area the better for all decent folk in this region.
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I will not debate / discuss anything with you as you are a proven liar , a source of twisted / perverted practices and views and an all round utter scoundrel.
.
Begone and disappear - as befits the foul noxious evil smell and chancer that you are.

Dear JBB:
You are trying to say to ‘ivor’ the words of Oliver Cromwell - dramatically repeated by Leo Amery in the chamber of the House of Commons on the night of 8 May 1940 during the Norway Debate - Cromwell said to the Long Parliament when he thought it was no longer fit to conduct the affairs of the nation:


"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go."


Regards Milo

At least you can see the BFP hasn’t lost its sense of humour – they have accompanied this report with the famous ‘Steve Hayes talks to his invisible to grown-ups glove puppet’ illustration.


(They have also recently resumed their practice of accompanying reports of Alex Collingwood with a photograph of a waxwork man with facial paralysis and the words ‘Wycombe District Council Leader Alex Collingwood’.

Milo The Dog of JBB wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:
You too Bigot are yet another millstone around this area's neck, one which continually smears and lies about our town and abuses and denigrates its folk also.
.
The sooner you leave this area the better for all decent folk in this region.
.
I will not debate / discuss anything with you as you are a proven liar , a source of twisted / perverted practices and views and an all round utter scoundrel.
.
Begone and disappear - as befits the foul noxious evil smell and chancer that you are.

Dear JBB:
You are trying to say to ‘ivor’ the words of Oliver Cromwell - dramatically repeated by Leo Amery in the chamber of the House of Commons on the night of 8 May 1940 during the Norway Debate - Cromwell said to the Long Parliament when he thought it was no longer fit to conduct the affairs of the nation:


"You have sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go."


Regards Milo

A tad too conciliatory , mild and faint-hearted in my opinion. But your pithy parliamentary points do hint at the gist or essence of what I was trying to say.
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Regards likewise.

People do have conveninet memories!
Adams park was built afte a Planning Appeal to Government after WDC turned it down on grounds of access, amongst other reasons. Any expansion of the site would encroach not only into the Green Belt but also the AONB! Has anyone asked the Police, Ambulance and Fire Services what their view is on increasing the capacity of Adams Park at the end of a cul-de-sac?
Who would support a significant incursion into the green belt and AONB?

williamjames wrote:
People do have conveninet memories! Adams park was built afte a Planning Appeal to Government after WDC turned it down on grounds of access, amongst other reasons. Any expansion of the site would encroach not only into the Green Belt but also the AONB! Has anyone asked the Police, Ambulance and Fire Services what their view is on increasing the capacity of Adams Park at the end of a cul-de-sac? Who would support a significant incursion into the green belt and AONB?

The starting point for expansion isn't whether you could obtain planning consent. The starting point is actually (a) is additional capacity needed, and (b) could the finance be raised by the rugby club to pay for it. If there's no need then there's no point and if there's no money then it's not going to happen.

williamjames wrote:
People do have conveninet memories!
Adams park was built afte a Planning Appeal to Government after WDC turned it down on grounds of access, amongst other reasons. Any expansion of the site would encroach not only into the Green Belt but also the AONB! Has anyone asked the Police, Ambulance and Fire Services what their view is on increasing the capacity of Adams Park at the end of a cul-de-sac?
Who would support a significant incursion into the green belt and AONB?

At the moment it is under filled on match days so this is a purely hypothetical proposition.

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:

williamjames wrote:
People do have conveninet memories!
Adams park was built afte a Planning Appeal to Government after WDC turned it down on grounds of access, amongst other reasons. Any expansion of the site would encroach not only into the Green Belt but also the AONB! Has anyone asked the Police, Ambulance and Fire Services what their view is on increasing the capacity of Adams Park at the end of a cul-de-sac?
Who would support a significant incursion into the green belt and AONB?

At the moment it is under filled on match days so this is a purely hypothetical proposition.

And unfortunately so is the prospect of seeing Mr Hayes sitting naked on an unpadded rail suspended between 2 horses ( or 2 football supporters groups) facing backwards and being jogged at a fast pace to the boundaries of the county.

Why is BFP reporting Steve Hayes' opinion?
Does he even live in Bucks,come to all the games at Adams Park?
Is he an elected representative of the local residents?
Get a grip Ed.

washondo wrote:
Why is BFP reporting Steve Hayes' opinion? Does he even live in Bucks,come to all the games at Adams Park? Is he an elected representative of the local residents? Get a grip Ed.

I don't know if he still attends matches, but he used to attend most matches for both teams.

I believe he lives in Beaconsfield.

Phredd wrote:

washondo wrote:
Why is BFP reporting Steve Hayes' opinion? Does he even live in Bucks,come to all the games at Adams Park? Is he an elected representative of the local residents? Get a grip Ed.

I don't know if he still attends matches, but he used to attend most matches for both teams.

I believe he lives in Beaconsfield.

According the papers he lives a bit further away than that.
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For example :
In February 2012, Steve Hayes was arrested on his farm in Hertfordshire, related to suspected offences under the Computer Misuse Act 1990 and Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, under Operation Tuleta. (taken from a daily national newspaper.)
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Perhaps he has moved to Beaconsfield to be nearer the action - or perhaps he's banged up in gaol there. Allegedly.

ivor wrote:
As far as I am concerned the sooner the rugby club leaves Wycombe the better. Goodbye and good riddance to them....
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

This is Hayes, Hayes no longer has anything to do with the rugby club. How many times do you have to be told, idiot.

The access to Adams Park undoubtedly limits the number of people who want to go to watch rugby and there is no doubt whatsoever that a better sited stadium would bring in improved crowds. There is a massive following for Wasps in the area (west London, Oxfordshire, Bucks) but the lack of access, parking and general facilities is horrendous. The Elfin Safety chaps need to be happy, too.

The stadium does suit a provincial football team where the crowds are massively smaller and oppposition supporters travel long distances, so come by train, and the on-site facilities are fair enough for them.

Wasps need a decent sized stadium, good parking, good food and drink options, and proper 'head-quarter' buildings and training grounds - they need the training and stadium grounds to be in the same place. I believe Wasps would regularly get crowds of 12 - 15 thousand per game in the right place.
Wycombe ought to be that place: it is a great hub, but it appears to want to destroy the opportunity to have a top quality team and facilities, to pass that on to some less deserving place. Adams Park is not the right place.

Wycombe would be better for having Wasps here permanently and would benefit financially.

In case my point is missed: Hayes is right, Wasps will move away very soon if they can't get a better stadium and Alex Collingwood is a fool ( I paraphrase)

Firm Bottom wrote:
The access to Adams Park undoubtedly limits the number of people who want to go to watch rugby and there is no doubt whatsoever that a better sited stadium would bring in improved crowds. There is a massive following for Wasps in the area (west London, Oxfordshire, Bucks) but the lack of access, parking and general facilities is horrendous. The Elfin Safety chaps need to be happy, too. The stadium does suit a provincial football team where the crowds are massively smaller and oppposition supporters travel long distances, so come by train, and the on-site facilities are fair enough for them. Wasps need a decent sized stadium, good parking, good food and drink options, and proper 'head-quarter' buildings and training grounds - they need the training and stadium grounds to be in the same place. I believe Wasps would regularly get crowds of 12 - 15 thousand per game in the right place. Wycombe ought to be that place: it is a great hub, but it appears to want to destroy the opportunity to have a top quality team and facilities, to pass that on to some less deserving place. Adams Park is not the right place. Wycombe would be better for having Wasps here permanently and would benefit financially.

Given that the capacity at Adams Park is around 11,500 how often is it currently full? Surely the utilisation of the current stadium offers an indication of the current demand...or are you suggesting that what's holding back many people from going to a match is simply the location of the venue? That would suggest that ticket price, quality of game, etc. aren't important.

It's true that the area benefits financially from London Wasps playing at Adams Park. The question (also posed by LW fans on their forum) is just how much ?

'Wasps need a decent sized stadium, good parking, good food and drink options, and proper 'head-quarter' buildings and training grounds'
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If you say so - but they also need the money to pay for it!

BOOKERite wrote:
'Wasps need a decent sized stadium, good parking, good food and drink options, and proper 'head-quarter' buildings and training grounds'
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If you say so - but they also need the money to pay for it!

If you say so

You sound a bit doubtful - as if you are just taking 'Firm Bottom's word without feeling deeply convinced. (Lawrence looks confused.)

BOOKERite wrote:
'Wasps need a decent sized stadium, good parking, good food and drink options, and proper 'head-quarter' buildings and training grounds'
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If you say so - but they also need the money to pay for it!

'Need' is possibly the wrong word. The appropriate word is more probably 'Want'

J B Blackett wrote:

BOOKERite wrote:
'Wasps need a decent sized stadium, good parking, good food and drink options, and proper 'head-quarter' buildings and training grounds'
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If you say so - but they also need the money to pay for it!

'Need' is possibly the wrong word. The appropriate word is more probably 'Want'

London Wasp's long awaited, and well overdue, 2011 annual report finally reflects the harsh reality....average attendance dropped in 2011 to 7,334 from 7,996 in 2010. One wonders what it will be for 2012?