Council letter asks deceased woman why she hasn't paid

Beryl Gillett Beryl Gillett

A GRIEVING son was left outraged when he received an "insensitive and inappropriate" letter from a council addressed to his deceased mother - advising her that she had not paid her council tax because she was dead.

Adrian Gillett lost his mother, Beryl, from central High Wycombe on August 23, aged 92. But Wycombe District Council still wrote to his mother saying her bank had been unable to pay her instalment for council tax which was requested by direct debit on September 10.

It then said: "the reason they have given for this non-payment is Payer Deceased. If you believe this is incorrect please contact your bank for further details."

It then goes on to ask for payment.

Mr Gillett, 55, from Handleton Common in Lane End said: "I got the letter and realised it was addressed to my mother at her address. I opened it and read it with a sense of incongruality. I could not believe someone could send a letter like that."

"People don't think how upsetting a letter like that can be. It should be dealt with in a much better way."

He said he phoned the council who said they had it on record that his mother had died, but they were unable to tell him why it had got through the screening process.

When he was registering her death, the coroner's office offered a death notification service called 'Tell Us Once', which informs specific organisations such as council tax and DVLA.

He was told he may still receive post but he said he did not expect a letter like that. He added: "If these things and type of things are going to people it should be stopped."

Mrs Gillett had been a High Wycombe resident all her life. She was well known by her maiden name, Tranter, as the family had a greengrocers in the town for 60 years until it closed in the 70s.

Mr Gillett also continued to receive letters from RAC saying sorry you have left us, after he cancelled his mother's membership.

Spokesman for WDC, Catherine Spalton, said: "We sincerely apologise for any distress that this letter may have caused Mrs Gillett’s family.

"We are obliged to notify local residents about any unpaid council tax direct debits, to ensure that we can recover the amount if appropriate. We are usually notified by banks that a direct debit has been unpaid. We then send a letter to follow this up - sometimes the reasons cited by the bank do not prove to be correct - which is generated by our automated system. This is usually a very efficient process and very rarely causes any problems or issues.

"Sadly, in this instance, we had not received notification through the "tell us once" system that Mrs Gillett had passed away before our system generated automatically generated the letter that was sent out. Had our records been updated, then of course the letter would have been addressed differently."

RAC also apologised for the error and said: "We have ensured Mr Gillett's late mother's name has been removed from our database and we will be writing to apologise for the upset this no doubt caused."

Comments (14)

2:09pm Mon 1 Oct 12

J B Blackett says...

Just sheer blind uncaring callous bureaucracy.
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It's merely driven by out-of-touch uncaring inept jobsworths and their ''infallible' processes and machinery egged on by arrogant thoughtless remote 'peoples representatives'.

'Representatives' who are too self-indulgent and involved with themselves to bother themselves with 'local issues' like bereavement and grieving relatives.
Just sheer blind uncaring callous bureaucracy. . It's merely driven by out-of-touch uncaring inept jobsworths and their ''infallible' processes and machinery egged on by arrogant thoughtless remote 'peoples representatives'. 'Representatives' who are too self-indulgent and involved with themselves to bother themselves with 'local issues' like bereavement and grieving relatives. J B Blackett

9:28am Tue 2 Oct 12

Kadoogan says...

It's an awful thing to happen, and I would hope Mr Gillett received a personal apology, but no-one intended it to occur, so calling it 'uncaring callous bureaucracy' is a bit ridiculous.

When you run a business dealing with as many people as the council do, mistakes will always happen, whether you have automatic processes or manual ones.

Perhaps you have run a business of that size that never ever made a mistake?

PS No I don't work for the council! I'm just realistic about the fact you can never cut out every mistake. I'm sure both the council and RAC are checking to see how this happened and try to avoid it again. Neither wants the bad publicity.
It's an awful thing to happen, and I would hope Mr Gillett received a personal apology, but no-one intended it to occur, so calling it 'uncaring callous bureaucracy' is a bit ridiculous. When you run a business dealing with as many people as the council do, mistakes will always happen, whether you have automatic processes or manual ones. Perhaps you have run a business of that size that never ever made a mistake? PS No I don't work for the council! I'm just realistic about the fact you can never cut out every mistake. I'm sure both the council and RAC are checking to see how this happened and try to avoid it again. Neither wants the bad publicity. Kadoogan

11:37am Tue 2 Oct 12

smuggles says...

Kadoogan wrote:
It's an awful thing to happen, and I would hope Mr Gillett received a personal apology, but no-one intended it to occur, so calling it 'uncaring callous bureaucracy' is a bit ridiculous. When you run a business dealing with as many people as the council do, mistakes will always happen, whether you have automatic processes or manual ones. Perhaps you have run a business of that size that never ever made a mistake? PS No I don't work for the council! I'm just realistic about the fact you can never cut out every mistake. I'm sure both the council and RAC are checking to see how this happened and try to avoid it again. Neither wants the bad publicity.
well said
[quote][p][bold]Kadoogan[/bold] wrote: It's an awful thing to happen, and I would hope Mr Gillett received a personal apology, but no-one intended it to occur, so calling it 'uncaring callous bureaucracy' is a bit ridiculous. When you run a business dealing with as many people as the council do, mistakes will always happen, whether you have automatic processes or manual ones. Perhaps you have run a business of that size that never ever made a mistake? PS No I don't work for the council! I'm just realistic about the fact you can never cut out every mistake. I'm sure both the council and RAC are checking to see how this happened and try to avoid it again. Neither wants the bad publicity.[/p][/quote]well said smuggles

12:54pm Tue 2 Oct 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

Mrs Gillett looks beautiful in the photograph - whoever took the photo is a talented photographer.
Mrs Gillett looks beautiful in the photograph - whoever took the photo is a talented photographer. ImpeturbableLawrence

2:04pm Tue 2 Oct 12

J B Blackett says...

Kadoogan wrote:
It's an awful thing to happen, and I would hope Mr Gillett received a personal apology, but no-one intended it to occur, so calling it 'uncaring callous bureaucracy' is a bit ridiculous.

When you run a business dealing with as many people as the council do, mistakes will always happen, whether you have automatic processes or manual ones.

Perhaps you have run a business of that size that never ever made a mistake?

PS No I don't work for the council! I'm just realistic about the fact you can never cut out every mistake. I'm sure both the council and RAC are checking to see how this happened and try to avoid it again. Neither wants the bad publicity.
You mean a computer generated personal demand and posted to a person the organization knew was already deceased , is never double checked ?
.
It will probably happen again then. And next time it might be someone you know.

And no - I'm afraid have never worked for an organization which does that.
[quote][p][bold]Kadoogan[/bold] wrote: It's an awful thing to happen, and I would hope Mr Gillett received a personal apology, but no-one intended it to occur, so calling it 'uncaring callous bureaucracy' is a bit ridiculous. When you run a business dealing with as many people as the council do, mistakes will always happen, whether you have automatic processes or manual ones. Perhaps you have run a business of that size that never ever made a mistake? PS No I don't work for the council! I'm just realistic about the fact you can never cut out every mistake. I'm sure both the council and RAC are checking to see how this happened and try to avoid it again. Neither wants the bad publicity.[/p][/quote]You mean a computer generated personal demand and posted to a person the organization knew was already deceased , is never double checked ? . It will probably happen again then. And next time it might be someone you know. And no - I'm afraid have never worked for an organization which does that. J B Blackett

2:49pm Tue 2 Oct 12

Kadoogan says...

Of course I'd be annoyed if it happened to me, (and nowhere have I said Mr Gillett shouldn't be annoyed). Once the initial anger had worn off though I would fully expect to realise that mistakes happen and that no-one involved intended to cause that hurt.

It would be great if everything businesses sent out was double checked, but we'd all be paying for it.

You have never worked for a business that made a mistake?
Of course I'd be annoyed if it happened to me, (and nowhere have I said Mr Gillett shouldn't be annoyed). Once the initial anger had worn off though I would fully expect to realise that mistakes happen and that no-one involved intended to cause that hurt. It would be great if everything businesses sent out was double checked, but we'd all be paying for it. You have never worked for a business that made a mistake? Kadoogan

3:03pm Tue 2 Oct 12

deecee01 says...

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
Mrs Gillett looks beautiful in the photograph - whoever took the photo is a talented photographer.
I was thinking the same thing, what a lovely photo of Mrs Gillett.
[quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: Mrs Gillett looks beautiful in the photograph - whoever took the photo is a talented photographer.[/p][/quote]I was thinking the same thing, what a lovely photo of Mrs Gillett. deecee01

3:27pm Tue 2 Oct 12

J B Blackett says...

Kadoogan wrote:
Of course I'd be annoyed if it happened to me, (and nowhere have I said Mr Gillett shouldn't be annoyed). Once the initial anger had worn off though I would fully expect to realise that mistakes happen and that no-one involved intended to cause that hurt.

It would be great if everything businesses sent out was double checked, but we'd all be paying for it.

You have never worked for a business that made a mistake?
Yes, the businesses I work/worked for do / did make unintentional mistakes. Usually through miscommunication or misunderstood / misinterpreted instructions or mere accidental ineptness.
.
I am not saying that all business correspondence should be doubled checked.
.
But in cases where the organization already comprehensively knows that a person is deceased and relatives are still grieving , perhaps a little more care should be taken in sensitive areas.
.
I have experience this personally over recent times and am quite aware of the real distress it causes to someone who is still sensitized to a loss of a family member.
.
It is not just large organizations that make this mistake either.
[quote][p][bold]Kadoogan[/bold] wrote: Of course I'd be annoyed if it happened to me, (and nowhere have I said Mr Gillett shouldn't be annoyed). Once the initial anger had worn off though I would fully expect to realise that mistakes happen and that no-one involved intended to cause that hurt. It would be great if everything businesses sent out was double checked, but we'd all be paying for it. You have never worked for a business that made a mistake?[/p][/quote]Yes, the businesses I work/worked for do / did make unintentional mistakes. Usually through miscommunication or misunderstood / misinterpreted instructions or mere accidental ineptness. . I am not saying that all business correspondence should be doubled checked. . But in cases where the organization already comprehensively knows that a person is deceased and relatives are still grieving , perhaps a little more care should be taken in sensitive areas. . I have experience this personally over recent times and am quite aware of the real distress it causes to someone who is still sensitized to a loss of a family member. . It is not just large organizations that make this mistake either. J B Blackett

4:25pm Tue 2 Oct 12

Kadoogan says...

I would agree with all that. I just take exception to the accusation that the person who made the error must be some uncaring jobsworth.

Having had a few years working for a large financial company I have known a couple of instances of this happening. One that was an error by a colleague who, rather than being uncaring and callous, was mortified by the fact that they had failed to stop something going out in the post in the name of someone that was deceased. It was her (and therefore the company's) fault but neither intended for it to happen. Sometimes it just takes a slip of concentration, which everyone has from time to time. They obviously didn't mean it to happen, and certainly weren't uncaring about it.

The other incident I recall was as a result of something I sent out, but I did have the reasonable defence that no-one had at that point told us the deceased was in fact deceased. Didn't stop me feeling bad about it though!

It's easy to see the likes of the council and a large business like the RAC as some faceless uncaring entity, but they are populated by people like you and me, and I'm sure the people who made the error in each case are not happy about it. Hopefully each will make sure extra checks are in place to avoid future cases.
I would agree with all that. I just take exception to the accusation that the person who made the error must be some uncaring jobsworth. Having had a few years working for a large financial company I have known a couple of instances of this happening. One that was an error by a colleague who, rather than being uncaring and callous, was mortified by the fact that they had failed to stop something going out in the post in the name of someone that was deceased. It was her (and therefore the company's) fault but neither intended for it to happen. Sometimes it just takes a slip of concentration, which everyone has from time to time. They obviously didn't mean it to happen, and certainly weren't uncaring about it. The other incident I recall was as a result of something I sent out, but I did have the reasonable defence that no-one had at that point told us the deceased was in fact deceased. Didn't stop me feeling bad about it though! It's easy to see the likes of the council and a large business like the RAC as some faceless uncaring entity, but they are populated by people like you and me, and I'm sure the people who made the error in each case are not happy about it. Hopefully each will make sure extra checks are in place to avoid future cases. Kadoogan

5:16pm Tue 2 Oct 12

J B Blackett says...

Fair enough. But I personally was still receiving council mail addressed to my dear wife until relatively recently - even though she passed away over 2 years ago.
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And that was after several telephone calls and written correspondence. Someone must have been ignoring those communications or just throwing the written ones in the bin.
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And mostly it was in pursuit of money of like other organizations / charities etc,
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It seems thankfully currently to have come to a stop for the last 2 to 3 months. I hope.
Fair enough. But I personally was still receiving council mail addressed to my dear wife until relatively recently - even though she passed away over 2 years ago. . And that was after several telephone calls and written correspondence. Someone must have been ignoring those communications or just throwing the written ones in the bin. . And mostly it was in pursuit of money of like other organizations / charities etc, . It seems thankfully currently to have come to a stop for the last 2 to 3 months. I hope. J B Blackett

5:48pm Tue 2 Oct 12

Kadoogan says...

Well in that case I can understand the lasting anger. One error can be put down to a mistake, but the fact it has taken two years to (hopefully) put right is a disgrace.

Whilst from my own experience I would imagine this is down more to bad management of resources/systems than someone just not caring, I'm sure in your position I would be very angry. I hope they finally got themselves sorted out for good.
Well in that case I can understand the lasting anger. One error can be put down to a mistake, but the fact it has taken two years to (hopefully) put right is a disgrace. Whilst from my own experience I would imagine this is down more to bad management of resources/systems than someone just not caring, I'm sure in your position I would be very angry. I hope they finally got themselves sorted out for good. Kadoogan

5:58pm Tue 2 Oct 12

J B Blackett says...

I was speaking from experience and not because I am just a miserable critic..
.
So thank you for that last thoughtful reply .
I was speaking from experience and not because I am just a miserable critic.. . So thank you for that last thoughtful reply . J B Blackett

7:04pm Tue 2 Oct 12

Kadoogan says...

I would certainly have done a better job of sounding less scathing had I been aware (or indeed have just kept my mouth shut as I think you have every right to have a moan on this subject).

Plus I fully admit to being a miserable critic about many things :)
I would certainly have done a better job of sounding less scathing had I been aware (or indeed have just kept my mouth shut as I think you have every right to have a moan on this subject). Plus I fully admit to being a miserable critic about many things :) Kadoogan

3:51am Wed 3 Oct 12

Marmite XO says...

deecee01 wrote:
ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
Mrs Gillett looks beautiful in the photograph - whoever took the photo is a talented photographer.
I was thinking the same thing, what a lovely photo of Mrs Gillett.
A shame the other picture of Adrian Gillett is so bad.
[quote][p][bold]deecee01[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: Mrs Gillett looks beautiful in the photograph - whoever took the photo is a talented photographer.[/p][/quote]I was thinking the same thing, what a lovely photo of Mrs Gillett.[/p][/quote]A shame the other picture of Adrian Gillett is so bad. Marmite XO

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