Wycombe's top cop calls for debate on what is 'anti-social behaviour' (From Bucks Free Press)

As a parent of teenage boys I have seen first hand Police calling mob handed for antisocial behaviour when my sons are just loud and playing football in the street. Some residents (Bourne End) must want to promote the lazy obese nature where children stay inside on their PS3's and Xboxes.

The problem for the cops is that most members of the public now know how to get a rapid police response to something they report without being seen as wasting police time, thanks to the live cop shows on tele.

If you say "there's some kids playing outside, a bit loud they are" and add in "i fink I saw some flashing metal when one was waving his arm, it is dark though" then the add-in will get two panda cars attending within ten minutes, the kids dispersed and no comeback for you for calling it in.

There is also a Wycombe District Council number to report non-crime ASB if it ongoing and blighting your life. Maybe the police should make the public more away that the council should be the first port of call if there is no crime being committed.

Gazzetta wrote:
As a parent of teenage boys I have seen first hand Police calling mob handed for antisocial behaviour when my sons are just loud and playing football in the street. Some residents (Bourne End) must want to promote the lazy obese nature where children stay inside on their PS3's and Xboxes.

I appreciate young lads will be playing in the street and being a bit loud and I am in no way implying that your boys do anything other than make a bit of noise but I have seen only too aften a group of youngsters playing football in the street that then turns to kicking the ball against someones car, garage or the like, it then can deteriorate into minor vandalism and when you approach the parents you will either be told to mind your own business or they just grunt at you and say nothing to the children! Nowadays there does seem to be far less respect for other peoples property, and other people in general from a lot of parents and to be fair, would you like someone elses children kicking a football against your car or garage? It is a road and roads are for cars. You say the police were "mob handed" that implies there was a serious complaint made as police DO NOT go anywhere "mob handed" nowadays without very good reason due to resources.

tigeran wrote:

Gazzetta wrote:
As a parent of teenage boys I have seen first hand Police calling mob handed for antisocial behaviour when my sons are just loud and playing football in the street. Some residents (Bourne End) must want to promote the lazy obese nature where children stay inside on their PS3's and Xboxes.

I appreciate young lads will be playing in the street and being a bit loud and I am in no way implying that your boys do anything other than make a bit of noise but I have seen only too aften a group of youngsters playing football in the street that then turns to kicking the ball against someones car, garage or the like, it then can deteriorate into minor vandalism and when you approach the parents you will either be told to mind your own business or they just grunt at you and say nothing to the children! Nowadays there does seem to be far less respect for other peoples property, and other people in general from a lot of parents and to be fair, would you like someone elses children kicking a football against your car or garage? It is a road and roads are for cars. You say the police were "mob handed" that implies there was a serious complaint made as police DO NOT go anywhere "mob handed" nowadays without very good reason due to resources.

I agree with you Tigeran(shock horror).

I remember a case way back when I was a Cllr for Booker and Cressex, where (and I shall not name the estate) a lady was being victimised by a group of children and adults for a very long time - which included kicking a ball very loudly against her wall/fence/car, etc this went on for a very long time and we are talking about some very nasty characters being involved here.

Although the police did get involved, I feel that more could be done if there were the teeth and enforcement behind it. I know for a fast that both the ASBO department in Wycombe District Council and also the police are undermanned, so it’s difficult to deal with these types of ASB problems.

But I wish that more could be done to stop a lot of these 'not very nice' people from this type of behaviour.

There is a very bad lack of respect for authority and other people in this day and age - again, I think as a sociality that we seem to be going backwards in evolution and not forwards.

Perhaps we should be less of a soft and liberal society? A no messing around policy from the police?

If you give more powers to our existing police constables it would work a treat as they entered the force with the right motives.

Within five years however, those greater powers would have attracted a new breed of officer into the force for all the wrong reasons.

This is the problem that government and chief police officers are facing. Policy will not change unless there is comprehensive and continued civil unrest.

Does Superintendent Houalla want a debate with the public over what constitutes ASB or does he want to lecture the public on what his definition of ASB is? I only ask because he seems to have made his mind up that 10% of the calls “waste police time”. This does not bode well for an open debate.

The Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003 also covers , Drugs, Housing, Parental responsibilities, Firearms, Environment, Trespass and (I kid you not) Hedges. I trust the aspect Superintendent Houalla wants to discuss relates to Part 4 of the act (Dispersal of groups etc.)?

It doesn’t help that The Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003 is a bit woolly in what constitutes ASB.

To quote:

Dispersal of groups and removal of persons under 16 to their place of residence

“applies if a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that the presence or behaviour of a group of two or more persons in any public place in the relevant locality has resulted, or is likely to result, in any members of the public being intimidated, harassed, alarmed or distressed”

For the hard of sleeping
http://www.legislati
on.gov.uk/ukpga/2003
/38/contents

The key to this issue is clearly the definition of what ASB actually is. DS Houalla almost certainly has his own exposition. Perhaps those attending the debate should do so forearmed with their interpretation - and that is what the debate should be around.

If my neighbour's teenage children are having a party and the music's a bit loud, then that's fine - up to a point. Is midnight too late for the music to be loud. 1am? 2am? Is there an answer? Probably not. But I know when it begins to affect me and it's my perception at that point in time that makes it (for me) anti-social.

What I'm trying to say is that different people are affected in different ways by the behaviour of other members of our community. It isn't just the younger people who engage in behaviour that might be deemed anti-social. Far from it - but there seems to be a general stigma attached to the younger generation which I think is unfair.

What I take from the article is that there are crabby residents out there who need to get a life. Peeping out from behind the curtains and looking for any excuse to complain to anyone who will listen of the imaginary woe’s that others are inflicting on them.
They spend their lives whining instead of getting off their backsides and making a useful contribution to their neighbourhoods.
Everyone knows what anti social behaviour is and it’s definitely not kids chasing a ball up and down the road or being boisterous outside the local shops.
When a top cop goes to the media, they’ve obviously identified an area that’s wasting a large amount of police time and decided it needs to be addressed.

'Insp Gilbert Houalla' is an anagram .
.
Can you see what it is yet ?

J B Blackett wrote:
'Insp Gilbert Houalla' is an anagram .
.
Can you see what it is yet ?

No? Please let me know.

I think this a great idea and hopefully people will get involved. There does seem to be a culture of people with nothing better to do than complain, and it's nice to see someone trying to see our young people in a positive light. We should be encouraging them to be out and about being children. I'm fairly sure we used to run around playing hide and seek behind people's walls when we were little and hanging around in a group at the end of the street and that was deemed 'playing' not anti social. In fact, it's the opposite really as they are socialising.

Hope there is a positive outcome!

I can think of loads of things that annoy me - my neighbour's siting of his barbecue (their predecessors managed not to send smoke into my kitchen), people playing music outside, other people's dogs, my dogs - but calling the police about it would be a bit over the top. Especially as I expect anyone I moaned about would probably moan straight back about my dogs! Unless actual damage is being done or you're having your sleep disturbed every night, live and let live.

Mr Totterdge Hill wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:
'Insp Gilbert Houalla' is an anagram .
.
Can you see what it is yet ?

No? Please let me know.

Well it's not 'Anglophilia Bluster' or even Spiraltail Bunghole'

'murmont'- what sort of world do you live in? we that don't like kids shouting and screaming outside our houses,balls being kicked against walls etc, make us 'crabby curtain twitching wingers that need to get a life?We are doing something about it,not sitting on our backsides, by telling numpties like you to consider others!

J B Blackett wrote:

Mr Totterdge Hill wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:
'Insp Gilbert Houalla' is an anagram .
.
Can you see what it is yet ?

No? Please let me know.

Well it's not 'Anglophilia Bluster' or even Spiraltail Bunghole'

JBB may have meant a hologram.

no1buzz wrote:
'murmont'- what sort of world do you live in? we that don't like kids shouting and screaming outside our houses,balls being kicked against walls etc, make us 'crabby curtain twitching wingers that need to get a life?We are doing something about it,not sitting on our backsides, by telling numpties like you to consider others!

While you may not like it, an important part of living in a community is having young people around the place.
Kids add vibrancy to a neighbourhood ,and when they occasionally leave off steam it does not automatically mean they are being anti social.
If you feel so strongly about that kind of innocent behaviour it’s maybe time to hide yourself away from humanity at the end of a lane in some isolated part of the Yorkshire Dales, because that’s all part of living in a community.
Didn’t you used to be a much more charity and friendly person when I knew you back in the ‘80’s and weren’t kids much more civilized back then…lol

He said officers receive up to 20 calls a day about ASB and, while 90 percent of reports are legitimate, the others waste police time and potentially build barriers between officers and sections of the community.

18 out of 20 calls are okay then - well done public.

It's no wonder the yobs are out of control in so many places when 'WYCOMBE’S top cop wants a debate on what constitutes 'anti-social behaviour''.

Elsewhere on this site (http://www.bucksfre
epress.co.uk/news/99
66660.Students_advis
ed_on_acceptable_beh
aviour_in_new_guide/
#commentsList) one of Gilbert Houalla’s subordinates Darren Mitchell is giving handouts to students telling them what is and is not acceptable behaviour in town

Sgt Mitchell said: "This is a brilliant way to raise awareness to students of what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in the community …

Perhaps Sgt Mitchell should give a copy of the hand out to Supt Houalla to help him establish the obvious.
My advice to M. Houalla is that if a group of kids are Pi ssing off all the residents and the kids think it is a laugh then that is anti-social behaviour.

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:

Mr Totterdge Hill wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:
'Insp Gilbert Houalla' is an anagram .
.
Can you see what it is yet ?

No? Please let me know.

Well it's not 'Anglophilia Bluster' or even Spiraltail Bunghole'

JBB may have meant a hologram.

No - after due consideration , I think it might have been an android.
.
Or putting it another way - 'Dorian Dan'

murmont wrote:
What I take from the article is that there are crabby residents out there who need to get a life. Peeping out from behind the curtains and looking for any excuse to complain to anyone who will listen of the imaginary woe’s that others are inflicting on them.
They spend their lives whining instead of getting off their backsides and making a useful contribution to their neighbourhoods.
Everyone knows what anti social behaviour is and it’s definitely not kids chasing a ball up and down the road or being boisterous outside the local shops.
When a top cop goes to the media, they’ve obviously identified an area that’s wasting a large amount of police time and decided it needs to be addressed.

Read the article - the 'top cop' said 90% of complaints were justified.

You sound yourself a bit like a kid whining instead of getting off its backside and making a useful contribution to your neighbourhood.

murmont wrote:

no1buzz wrote:
'murmont'- what sort of world do you live in? we that don't like kids shouting and screaming outside our houses,balls being kicked against walls etc, make us 'crabby curtain twitching wingers that need to get a life?We are doing something about it,not sitting on our backsides, by telling numpties like you to consider others!

While you may not like it, an important part of living in a community is having young people around the place.
Kids add vibrancy to a neighbourhood ,and when they occasionally leave off steam it does not automatically mean they are being anti social.
If you feel so strongly about that kind of innocent behaviour it’s maybe time to hide yourself away from humanity at the end of a lane in some isolated part of the Yorkshire Dales, because that’s all part of living in a community.
Didn’t you used to be a much more charity and friendly person when I knew you back in the ‘80’s and weren’t kids much more civilized back then…lol

If you feel so strongly about that kind of innocent behaviour it’s maybe time to hide yourself away from humanity at the end of a lane in some isolated part of the Yorkshire Dales, because that’s all part of living in a community

I think ‘murmont’ is a kid pretending to be an older detached observer – why don’t you lead your crowd of yobs on your BMX bikes down a lane in Yorkshire and let off steam at each other instead of shoppers going about their business – that’s a part of life you know?

“But if an officer calls over a child innocently playing with their friends, it will impact upon that child for years to come just because someone has reported him.

WHY should it do that Mr Houalla?

Why are they holding the on-line debate between 4pm and 6pm when people will either be at work or returning home from work? It should go on until 8pm so everyone has a chance to respond....
~
I am covering the topic of anti-social behaviour on my latest blog....
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

A large part of the problem is girls in PC and PCSO uniforms with 1: no appetite for work or effort of any kind and 2: no way to confront yobs they think are just harmless kids really not unlike their younger brothers.

J B Blackett wrote:
'Insp Gilbert Houalla' is an anagram .
.
Can you see what it is yet ?

Hug Spoilt Ballerina

It's not funny but it does work ;-)

ThePolice wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:
'Insp Gilbert Houalla' is an anagram .
.
Can you see what it is yet ?

Hug Spoilt Ballerina

It's not funny but it does work ;-)

Nice try - though I can't for some reason conjure up the sight of Inspector Houalla flitting around Wycombe Police Station in a tu-tu.
.
Perhaps he needs encouragement , like you suggested.

These days 99% of children are armed with a video camera in their mobile phones and 'under resourced' police are being filmed all the time (for their own amusement). You cannot dispute this evidence and a) many times precious resource is being wasted and b) the respect children SHOULD have for the police is disappearing because they are attending too many non criminal issues.

Superintendent Houalla seems a little bit fond of publicity – he has a twitter account in which he says his opinions are his own – which they are no doubt but I am a bit suspicious of people with controversial opinions and who like to voice them. For what reason is he doing this – is he going into politics, preparing people to have smaller expectations of the police as the public employee wages budget is cut or is it just vanity of the kind we are all prone to?

Mr Sherlock Holmes, Master Consulting Detective, of Baker Street, London. wrote:
Superintendent Houalla seems a little bit fond of publicity – he has a twitter account in which he says his opinions are his own – which they are no doubt but I am a bit suspicious of people with controversial opinions and who like to voice them. For what reason is he doing this – is he going into politics, preparing people to have smaller expectations of the police as the public employee wages budget is cut or is it just vanity of the kind we are all prone to?

"to which we are all prone" and get back to work constable.