Over 200 HS2 protesters in Wendover filmed by BBC (From Bucks Free Press)

Hammond is a complete organ.

Why is the bucks free press so biased against any economic development within in the South Buckinghamshire area.

iranianyouth wrote:
Why is the bucks free press so biased against any economic development within in the South Buckinghamshire area.

What economic development will there be in South Bucks from HS2? It will hurtle from central Birmingham to Central London non-stop and in the process of being built will make everyone's life a complete misery. It will also probably be built by a German or French construction firm.
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Did you comment on the wrong article by accident?

Ewartwhatyoubulldoze wrote:
Hammond is a complete organ.

Brilliant! Thanks for making me genuinely LOL. He (Hammond) is a complete spoon though, heard him on the radio saying something like "....all the protesters, surprise surprise, live along the proposed route...." well, errrr..... what does he expect?? Anyway, he is wrong. I object to it and I live nowhere near the route, and know many others that object too but live in H.W. I have lived here all my life and love the Chilterns, I and hate what is proposed, tearing up this beautiful landscape, more noise. But I fear we are bugg3red on this one, too much money changing hands methinks. If you want to get to Birmingham 25 mins earlier, get an earlier train!!!

I think Lizzie Williams should do something constructive with her life, "like get a job" to take her mind off things, she obviously has too much time on her hands.

Why are so many of these people in this government multi-millionaires ? I've been told it's really over 80 percent of them. Including this all-stops-out organ of speech Hammond
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Are they in it for the money and status or as they keep saying 'to put something back in the community ?
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How thoughtful , kind , democratic and considerate. So that's what they meant - what a load of rascals eh ? I think it used to be called 'shafting'
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And do you think their mates will collar all the highly lucrative contracts - I already heard the rumour that their friend Lord Tata is supplying all the steel - but not from the UK. Lots of money to be made out of this.
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Watch this space - soon be be stolen from you. It is after all YOUR country we keep being told. But they treat it like it's THEIRS alone.

If the people don't want it they shouldn't have to have it!
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Do we really need this rail link anyway? Why can't they build an airport in the Midlands so the passengers can fly straight to their destination and relieve the pressure on the souther airports?
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Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

Doom wrote:

Ewartwhatyoubulldoze wrote:
Hammond is a complete organ.

Brilliant! Thanks for making me genuinely LOL. He (Hammond) is a complete spoon though, heard him on the radio saying something like "....all the protesters, surprise surprise, live along the proposed route...." well, errrr..... what does he expect?? Anyway, he is wrong. I object to it and I live nowhere near the route, and know many others that object too but live in H.W. I have lived here all my life and love the Chilterns, I and hate what is proposed, tearing up this beautiful landscape, more noise. But I fear we are bugg3red on this one, too much money changing hands methinks. If you want to get to Birmingham 25 mins earlier, get an earlier train!!!

Hear hear!
I don't live anywhere near the proposed stadium but I am as much against that as I am against the HS2 .
This is a beautiful county and the government just don't give a toss.

If compensation is available for those who are affected by the HS2 project, will the same rules apply to those who live in Lane End and Booker if the stadium white elephant project goes ahead?

ivor wrote:
If the people don't want it they shouldn't have to have it! ~ Do we really need this rail link anyway? Why can't they build an airport in the Midlands so the passengers can fly straight to their destination and relieve the pressure on the souther airports? ~ Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

There are several airports in the Midlands - e.g. Birmingham and Coventry. Are you seriously proposing that another airport is built so people can fly between the Mindlands and London?

gpn01 wrote:

ivor wrote:
If the people don't want it they shouldn't have to have it! ~ Do we really need this rail link anyway? Why can't they build an airport in the Midlands so the passengers can fly straight to their destination and relieve the pressure on the souther airports? ~ Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

There are several airports in the Midlands - e.g. Birmingham and Coventry. Are you seriously proposing that another airport is built so people can fly between the Mindlands and London?

A big claim of the dodgy business case is that people from the Midlands will use HS2 to get to Heathrow and fly from there rather than putting pressure on local airports. At the same time they claim that HS2 will help iron out the so-called North / South economic divide.
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So take away local economic activity from regional airports in the Midlands and North and focus it on Heathrow, net effect zero reduction in air travel. And then discount the third runway. All fits together into a genius national transport strategy.

The country is being run and governed by inept idiots. How did this happen. Were we all asleep or didn't care ?
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How can we get our country back from these absolutely frightful people ? Do tell.

To be fair, this HS2 scheme was proposed under a Labour Government.
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The Coalition Government not only agree with it but want to implement it within less time period than Labour proposed due to a shorter period of consultation.
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The only thing I object to is the proposal that council taxpayers' money is going into a pool to fight the HS2 scheme.
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There seems something wrong in Tory councils using taxpayers' money to fight the Tory led National Government.
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Let councillors use their own money if they want to pool a fighting fund.

I said they are all idiots - Labor , Con , Dem whatever they call themselves - they are all in it together - the whole incompetent undemocratic useless self-regarding self-serving shower of windbags. Not a decent person amonst the lot.
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Come back Lord Sutch - at least he admitted to being an idiot without all this clap-trap, politico speak and pseudo-intellectual spin they all spout nowadays.
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This HS2 project starts off as a fiasco and will end in the same way. In the meantime do we have to put up with all these mealy-mouthed untrustworthy scoundrels ? I say No.

I think consistency is what we all want. So a party that promises to cut national debt and protect the countryside should not be roundly supporting a scheme, that will blatantly do the exact opposite, once they effectively get into power.
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What about you JBB? Fancy stepping up from Chairmanship of Birmingham Chamber of Commerce to Prime Minister?

Umm, yes I would work if I could but having sustained a traumatic brain injury in a serious car accident two years ago I am still in the recovery phase. Yes, I walked the route - against doctors advice - and that has definately helped with my rehabilitation - I am stronger and my walking and co-ordination is much better now - and I would point out it took me 6 weeks as I had to do it in phases due to my disabilities.
If you had any decent argument against the truth ie; there is no business case, no environmental case and no money to pay for it then you wouldn't need to resort to extremely personal and offensive remarks.
I am doing what am I doing to try and save us all from this impending disaster. I would not allow the country to be destroyed on a whim. This is White Elephant and is the wrong priority for the country. People need local transport and local jobs and they need them now!
I have got off my backside and done something and I will always be proud of that.

lizzylouise wrote:
Umm, yes I would work if I could but having sustained a traumatic brain injury in a serious car accident two years ago I am still in the recovery phase. Yes, I walked the route - against doctors advice - and that has definately helped with my rehabilitation - I am stronger and my walking and co-ordination is much better now - and I would point out it took me 6 weeks as I had to do it in phases due to my disabilities.
If you had any decent argument against the truth ie; there is no business case, no environmental case and no money to pay for it then you wouldn't need to resort to extremely personal and offensive remarks.
I am doing what am I doing to try and save us all from this impending disaster. I would not allow the country to be destroyed on a whim. This is White Elephant and is the wrong priority for the country. People need local transport and local jobs and they need them now!
I have got off my backside and done something and I will always be proud of that.

Well said Lizzy!!

You could be correct , lizzylouise.
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I personally think it is all a devious distraction manoeuvre - creates work for the politicians , their toadying Senior Civil Servants and is done to distract the voting public from the real issues confronting the country (also created by our politicians as you know).
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It has the element of the old 'divide and rule' method. That's suits these self-interested groups , gangs and their mates no end. There is no logic to it - just politics and dirty dealing.
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That's how these rascals retain control and thumb their noses at democracy

Ewartwhatyoubulldoze wrote:
I think consistency is what we all want. So a party that promises to cut national debt and protect the countryside should not be roundly supporting a scheme, that will blatantly do the exact opposite, once they effectively get into power.
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What about you JBB? Fancy stepping up from Chairmanship of Birmingham Chamber of Commerce to Prime Minister?

No thank you. As has been said - 'He/she who lies down with dogs catches fleas. And other things !

lizzylouise wrote:
Umm, yes I would work if I could but having sustained a traumatic brain injury in a serious car accident two years ago I am still in the recovery phase. Yes, I walked the route - against doctors advice - and that has definately helped with my rehabilitation - I am stronger and my walking and co-ordination is much better now - and I would point out it took me 6 weeks as I had to do it in phases due to my disabilities. If you had any decent argument against the truth ie; there is no business case, no environmental case and no money to pay for it then you wouldn't need to resort to extremely personal and offensive remarks. I am doing what am I doing to try and save us all from this impending disaster. I would not allow the country to be destroyed on a whim. This is White Elephant and is the wrong priority for the country. People need local transport and local jobs and they need them now! I have got off my backside and done something and I will always be proud of that.

Well done, Lizzy!

Yed there are environmental concerns but this is mostly about NIMBY. Build an airport in the midlands you say? Yeah thats right, as long as its not near your house and you're not disrupted by it, any alternative will do! Nevermind the environmental impacts of building an airport and increasing air travel!

It seems many people are a bit short sighted and/or selfish as this project is for the good of the country. Why must you directly benefit from it just because you live near it?

Its no wonder this country is falling behind other countries in terms of transport infrastructure because it takes so long to do anything here once all the initial complaints have been dealt with. People seem happy to complain that our trains are cramped, slow, unreliable etc but then what do you expect when proposals for improvements are always met with the NIMBY brigade.

I support HS2, even though I suspect it will cause me some short term disruption, and I too object to public money being used by councils to fight against the Government.

bluebanana wrote:
Yed there are environmental concerns but this is mostly about NIMBY. Build an airport in the midlands you say? Yeah thats right, as long as its not near your house and you're not disrupted by it, any alternative will do! Nevermind the environmental impacts of building an airport and increasing air travel!

It seems many people are a bit short sighted and/or selfish as this project is for the good of the country. Why must you directly benefit from it just because you live near it?

Its no wonder this country is falling behind other countries in terms of transport infrastructure because it takes so long to do anything here once all the initial complaints have been dealt with. People seem happy to complain that our trains are cramped, slow, unreliable etc but then what do you expect when proposals for improvements are always met with the NIMBY brigade.

I support HS2, even though I suspect it will cause me some short term disruption, and I too object to public money being used by councils to fight against the Government.

Yes you say it is for the good of the country but how? Where are the benefits of it apart from slashing the journey time to Birmingham by a massive 15mins?

The DJ wrote:

bluebanana wrote:
Yed there are environmental concerns but this is mostly about NIMBY. Build an airport in the midlands you say? Yeah thats right, as long as its not near your house and you're not disrupted by it, any alternative will do! Nevermind the environmental impacts of building an airport and increasing air travel!

It seems many people are a bit short sighted and/or selfish as this project is for the good of the country. Why must you directly benefit from it just because you live near it?

Its no wonder this country is falling behind other countries in terms of transport infrastructure because it takes so long to do anything here once all the initial complaints have been dealt with. People seem happy to complain that our trains are cramped, slow, unreliable etc but then what do you expect when proposals for improvements are always met with the NIMBY brigade.

I support HS2, even though I suspect it will cause me some short term disruption, and I too object to public money being used by councils to fight against the Government.

Yes you say it is for the good of the country but how? Where are the benefits of it apart from slashing the journey time to Birmingham by a massive 15mins?

I agree DJ, the case has Not been made from which ever angle this project is considered.
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Not just in special interest sociological or environmental aspects but also in financial viability, sustainability , maintenance costings , unrealistic unprovable traffic projections , noise and other pollution considerations, energy usage (inc manufacturing energy not thought through ?) , imported machinery and raw material costs , undisclosed or unquantified compensation costs , unmeasured or unknown geological hazards and consequences , unpredictable funding arrangements ( more IMF borrowing ?) etc etc.
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There is nothing there that could not be achieved by managing and upgrading the current transport infrastructures already in place in a better fashion with up-to-date methods and good sensible management.
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There is now a dog eat dog chaotic management (so-called) structure ruunning our transport systems at the moment.
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And it is proving day by day to be inept, inadequate and not fit for purpose. Whether it's BAA , the railway companies , the national airlines or the road transport industry - all of them badly managed and all just fighting their own small corner in a very self-interested non-public spirited way.
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No good has come of it and there is not sign it will get better. It will continue to be not up to the task and to be unstable and unpredictable (as it proves to be at slightest hint of a problem.)
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We have no coherent integrated transport policy now ; the whole system has be decimated and fragmented by successive governments for political purposes only. The whole control , management and political aspects of our transport systems needs a good shake-out and re-structuring before any speculative project like this can even be contemplated.

I accept that a slightly shorter journey time between London and Birmingham seems like small reward for such an expensive project, but there are other issues to consider.

The existing train network (not great at the best of times) will soon reach capacity so this line is needed if we're to provide enough trains to meet demand. And its good that work is planned to start before existing capacity is reached, otherwise we end up with an M25 situation where it is only widened after years of congestion.

Also this line is a long term investment. Who knows, in 20 years time trains could be travelling even faster and that journey time will be even less. Trains are the only real alternative to air travel and the government will have to discourage air travel if the UK is to meet CO2 targets so demand for rail will increase.

I agree that transport policy in this country is pretty outdated and i suspect there are more urgent (localised) transport issues than HS2 but as a strategic infrastructure investment it is long overdue.

You argue your case well , but do not give any answers to any of my queries.
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I am still unconvinced. Particularly I am discouraged by the mealy-mouthed politicos who rhapsodize about this project. That in itself is enough to raise my suspicions and hackles.
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We seemed to have lost our way with democracy the last few years with these type of untrustworthy people 'in charge'. Believe anything they said at our peril. Depressing really . And so is the way 'they' ( politicians / civil servants) are handling this issue as well.

J B Blackett wrote:
You argue your case well , but do not give any answers to any of my queries.
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I am still unconvinced. Particularly I am discouraged by the mealy-mouthed politicos who rhapsodize about this project. That in itself is enough to raise my suspicions and hackles.
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We seemed to have lost our way with democracy the last few years with these type of untrustworthy people 'in charge'. Believe anything they said at our peril. Depressing really . And so is the way 'they' ( politicians / civil servants) are handling this issue as well.

Well said, I agree. Politicians seem to be more intetested in advancing their careers.

bluebanana wrote:
Yed there are environmental concerns but this is mostly about NIMBY. Build an airport in the midlands you say? Yeah thats right, as long as its not near your house and you're not disrupted by it, any alternative will do! Nevermind the environmental impacts of building an airport and increasing air travel!

It seems many people are a bit short sighted and/or selfish as this project is for the good of the country. Why must you directly benefit from it just because you live near it?

Its no wonder this country is falling behind other countries in terms of transport infrastructure because it takes so long to do anything here once all the initial complaints have been dealt with. People seem happy to complain that our trains are cramped, slow, unreliable etc but then what do you expect when proposals for improvements are always met with the NIMBY brigade.

I support HS2, even though I suspect it will cause me some short term disruption, and I too object to public money being used by councils to fight against the Government.

FFS - this is NOT just about nimbyism but even if it were, what the hell is wrong with wanting to protect your way of life?
So if you had lived in a house all your life and it was your home and you had to have it compulsory purchased that would be fine would it? You would just say piously "ah yes it is all for the greater good!" Oh purlease *raises eyebrows in disbelief*
If you were a farmer who was about to have his/her fields ripped apart for a ruddy great trainline, you would be okay with that would you?

The chilterns are beautiful and unspoilt. This is a little country - why on earth do we have to be in such a rush all the time? Not only that but with the world getting smaller with internet, video conferencing etc.

And as for the enviromental impact - *shudders*

The trains that they will be using are rated at 250mph and that will be cutting the times by 15 mins. The rails and designs they will be using will not be able to cope with speeds up to that high therefore they WILL have to rebuild if they want to improve the times which will cost more money so it will be exactly like the M25 situation.
The whole thing has not been thought out properly.

demoness wrote:

bluebanana wrote:
Yed there are environmental concerns but this is mostly about NIMBY. Build an airport in the midlands you say? Yeah thats right, as long as its not near your house and you're not disrupted by it, any alternative will do! Nevermind the environmental impacts of building an airport and increasing air travel!

It seems many people are a bit short sighted and/or selfish as this project is for the good of the country. Why must you directly benefit from it just because you live near it?

Its no wonder this country is falling behind other countries in terms of transport infrastructure because it takes so long to do anything here once all the initial complaints have been dealt with. People seem happy to complain that our trains are cramped, slow, unreliable etc but then what do you expect when proposals for improvements are always met with the NIMBY brigade.

I support HS2, even though I suspect it will cause me some short term disruption, and I too object to public money being used by councils to fight against the Government.

FFS - this is NOT just about nimbyism but even if it were, what the hell is wrong with wanting to protect your way of life?
So if you had lived in a house all your life and it was your home and you had to have it compulsory purchased that would be fine would it? You would just say piously "ah yes it is all for the greater good!" Oh purlease *raises eyebrows in disbelief*
If you were a farmer who was about to have his/her fields ripped apart for a ruddy great trainline, you would be okay with that would you?

The chilterns are beautiful and unspoilt. This is a little country - why on earth do we have to be in such a rush all the time? Not only that but with the world getting smaller with internet, video conferencing etc.

And as for the enviromental impact - *shudders*

It's called evolution. You can't live your life stuck in the 70's. Well you can, obviously, but you shouldn't be surprised that a Government wants to introduce change so we can compete internationally.

I'm sure many people complained about motorways being built near them or through countryside but I suspect they don't mind so much now and couldn't live without them.

And I'm sure you're only too happy to jump on a train. A privilage that wouldn't be possible unless there was some disruption many years ago.

So yes it is a NIMBY attitude whichever way you look at it.

bluebanana wrote:

demoness wrote:

bluebanana wrote:
Yed there are environmental concerns but this is mostly about NIMBY. Build an airport in the midlands you say? Yeah thats right, as long as its not near your house and you're not disrupted by it, any alternative will do! Nevermind the environmental impacts of building an airport and increasing air travel!

It seems many people are a bit short sighted and/or selfish as this project is for the good of the country. Why must you directly benefit from it just because you live near it?

Its no wonder this country is falling behind other countries in terms of transport infrastructure because it takes so long to do anything here once all the initial complaints have been dealt with. People seem happy to complain that our trains are cramped, slow, unreliable etc but then what do you expect when proposals for improvements are always met with the NIMBY brigade.

I support HS2, even though I suspect it will cause me some short term disruption, and I too object to public money being used by councils to fight against the Government.

FFS - this is NOT just about nimbyism but even if it were, what the hell is wrong with wanting to protect your way of life?
So if you had lived in a house all your life and it was your home and you had to have it compulsory purchased that would be fine would it? You would just say piously "ah yes it is all for the greater good!" Oh purlease *raises eyebrows in disbelief*
If you were a farmer who was about to have his/her fields ripped apart for a ruddy great trainline, you would be okay with that would you?

The chilterns are beautiful and unspoilt. This is a little country - why on earth do we have to be in such a rush all the time? Not only that but with the world getting smaller with internet, video conferencing etc.

And as for the enviromental impact - *shudders*

It's called evolution. You can't live your life stuck in the 70's. Well you can, obviously, but you shouldn't be surprised that a Government wants to introduce change so we can compete internationally.

I'm sure many people complained about motorways being built near them or through countryside but I suspect they don't mind so much now and couldn't live without them.

And I'm sure you're only too happy to jump on a train. A privilage that wouldn't be possible unless there was some disruption many years ago.

So yes it is a NIMBY attitude whichever way you look at it.

Banana Man - you're bent. Bent on going on about NIMBYs , when it's nothing to do with that whatsoever.
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Please supply answers and backing-up information supporting your claim this is progress and evolution.
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Have you not heard of the antitheses of both of those ? It is called regression. And that is what this rain scheme is. Dress it up anyway you like but it is a step backwards and driven by politicians of all colours.
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You obviously trust those proven liars more than other people do. The H-bomb and wars allow some people to compete internationally as well. A specious debating point.
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Now answer my questions. Otherwise you are just pontificating (like a politician) with no substance or facts for your 'progressive' argument.
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By the way , it will be difficult to jump on a 200km train as it plies only between London and Birmingham ignoring all points in between

bluebanana wrote:

demoness wrote:

bluebanana wrote:
Yed there are environmental concerns but this is mostly about NIMBY. Build an airport in the midlands you say? Yeah thats right, as long as its not near your house and you're not disrupted by it, any alternative will do! Nevermind the environmental impacts of building an airport and increasing air travel!

It seems many people are a bit short sighted and/or selfish as this project is for the good of the country. Why must you directly benefit from it just because you live near it?

Its no wonder this country is falling behind other countries in terms of transport infrastructure because it takes so long to do anything here once all the initial complaints have been dealt with. People seem happy to complain that our trains are cramped, slow, unreliable etc but then what do you expect when proposals for improvements are always met with the NIMBY brigade.

I support HS2, even though I suspect it will cause me some short term disruption, and I too object to public money being used by councils to fight against the Government.

FFS - this is NOT just about nimbyism but even if it were, what the hell is wrong with wanting to protect your way of life?
So if you had lived in a house all your life and it was your home and you had to have it compulsory purchased that would be fine would it? You would just say piously "ah yes it is all for the greater good!" Oh purlease *raises eyebrows in disbelief*
If you were a farmer who was about to have his/her fields ripped apart for a ruddy great trainline, you would be okay with that would you?

The chilterns are beautiful and unspoilt. This is a little country - why on earth do we have to be in such a rush all the time? Not only that but with the world getting smaller with internet, video conferencing etc.

And as for the enviromental impact - *shudders*

It's called evolution. You can't live your life stuck in the 70's. Well you can, obviously, but you shouldn't be surprised that a Government wants to introduce change so we can compete internationally.

I'm sure many people complained about motorways being built near them or through countryside but I suspect they don't mind so much now and couldn't live without them.

And I'm sure you're only too happy to jump on a train. A privilage that wouldn't be possible unless there was some disruption many years ago.

So yes it is a NIMBY attitude whichever way you look at it.

You haven't answered my question I notice - would you give your home up merrily for the greater good?

Oh I think we all know the answer to that one.... ;))

Ok, firstly, comment about using trains was not a reference to the yet to be constructed HS2. It was a reference to any train line which you will have used. Journeys made possible because there was some change instigated years ago to build railways.

Secondly, yes i would give up my home for the 'greater good' because the government will ensure market value compensation and i would simply move house. (Cue arguement about why you should move house which i am not interested in participating).

Have the final say by all means, but there is nothing you can say that can change my opinion of you or this project.

bluebanana wrote:
Ok, firstly, comment about using trains was not a reference to the yet to be constructed HS2. It was a reference to any train line which you will have used. Journeys made possible because there was some change instigated years ago to build railways.

Secondly, yes i would give up my home for the 'greater good' because the government will ensure market value compensation and i would simply move house. (Cue arguement about why you should move house which i am not interested in participating).

Have the final say by all means, but there is nothing you can say that can change my opinion of you or this project.

Well sadly not all of us are as noble and as self sacrificing as you and I can only apologise for us mere mortals.:))

I do not really know why you think I care what you think of me as you do not know me at all - only what my opinion is.

My life is not "stuck in the 70's" as you so charmingly put it. On the contrary I am very much a person of today.
I just do not like what is happening to the Chilterns by this railway which I am not entirely sure we need.

The thing is, when railways were built years ago, our birds, animals and wildlife were not under constant threat all the time.
Natural habitats are being lost at the rate of knots and I am very sorry to sound like a tree hugger but once they have gone, that is it... never to return. Maybe you do not have a problem with that.Maybe you do not have a problem with rain forests being destroyed for the benefit of mankind but I do.

This planet does not belong to us... we share it with a lot of other living creatures who arguably have as much right to be here as us.
So sorry - as I cannot see how the HS2 will benefit Bucks and as I do not want to see countryside being unnecessarily destroyed then I will maintain my position.

Banana Man you are sadly disillusioned if you think because the government is involved that people will get Market value for their homes if they are compulsory purchased. They will be given the minimum amount legally possible and that would be considerably less than if it was to be sold in the open market when there was no threat of this white elephant.