'Don't strike', Wycombe MP urges teachers (From Bucks Free Press)

“Most public sector workers would see no reduction in their pension at retirement and many low and middle income earners would receive larger pensions at retirement,”

Can't see how he works that one out, when the tory plan is to end the final salary pension with a career average one, a move that will affect women more as it is they that take time off to have children.The average pension within the NHS is a paltry £7000. The govt are going back on a deal negotiated in 2008,public sector pay has now been frozen until 2013, so this is a severe cut in pay for many people.Currently the NHS scheme brings in £2bn more than goes out in payments, why the need to increase contributions? They wont go into the pension pot but will be used to bail out more worthy causes, remember £400,000,000 loss over RBS?Say it quickly and it doesn't sound too bad does it?Using the middle/working classes money to bail out the bankers seems to be behind this plan.
The idea that a paramedic,say, will now have to work until they're 68 is quite frankly ludicrous, can you imagine someone of that age having to lift a patient downstairs?
There is only one section of 'public workers' that will get a large pay off on retirement, and that's our politicians,so it makes me cross that this one should come out with such an inaccurate statement.
Suffice to say the strikers have my full support.

wish i could retire at 68!!

readerabc...

Do you actually have anything useful to add to this discussion? All we have seen from you so far are insults and flippant comments!

I wish I could have a pension of £7,000!

wish i could have 3 months a year off ! great been a teacher

Get yourself a suitable Uni degree (if you haven't already got one), get on a one-year PGCE teacher training course and go for it then!

Before this though, as I have said previously, I'd recommend spending a week or so alongside teachers, during which you will find out just how significant the day-to-day stresses of the job are, plus get a feel for the long term-time working hours (65hrs per week for many).

Only then will you be in a position to comment on whether or not teachers get a good deal or not. I wouldn't begin to comment on whether or not you deserve the pay/conditions offered by your employer, without trying it out first.

The new pension system proposed, if it is so much better than what they have now, should be stopped.

Let them suffer and stay with the old system.

bucksteacher wrote:
Get yourself a suitable Uni degree (if you haven't already got one), get on a one-year PGCE teacher training course and go for it then!

Before this though, as I have said previously, I'd recommend spending a week or so alongside teachers, during which you will find out just how significant the day-to-day stresses of the job are, plus get a feel for the long term-time working hours (65hrs per week for many).

Only then will you be in a position to comment on whether or not teachers get a good deal or not. I wouldn't begin to comment on whether or not you deserve the pay/conditions offered by your employer, without trying it out first.

We've spoken before...

I think you underestimate how stressful life in the private sector can be.

1. You have total job security. There were only 14 teachers fired in the last 40 years, and zero lay-offs/redundancie
s. I think you’ll find a different figure for any other private company.
2. Stress – The stress of having to work significantly harder and longer hours, for less income, just to stay in work.
3. Stress – not knowing if you’ll be laid off at any moment as the company being worked for may fold in these hard times.
4. Stress – Losing your income, means losing your house – unable to pay the mortgage or rent.
5. Pensions – having to pay one third of salary to equal the public sector pensions – I doubt anyone in the private sector can afford to do that.
6. Lack of alternate jobs – If made redundant, jobs are few and far between. There’s almost nothing out there.

Maybe if you feel so stressed in your job, you should quit and join the private sector.

bucksteacher wrote:
Get yourself a suitable Uni degree (if you haven't already got one), get on a one-year PGCE teacher training course and go for it then! Before this though, as I have said previously, I'd recommend spending a week or so alongside teachers, during which you will find out just how significant the day-to-day stresses of the job are, plus get a feel for the long term-time working hours (65hrs per week for many). Only then will you be in a position to comment on whether or not teachers get a good deal or not. I wouldn't begin to comment on whether or not you deserve the pay/conditions offered by your employer, without trying it out first.

When you have your long Christmas Holiday, you should find the time to perhaps be nice to people, or perhaps you might get a book for christmas on being pleasant, or perhaps how to have manners, and what to do with them.

People talk about teenagers having an arrogant attitude, you have the same, you think you know everything, when in fact people like you know nothing (just like manuel).

I hope everything goes against you, as you deserve it.

Alberto The Great wrote:

bucksteacher wrote:
Get yourself a suitable Uni degree (if you haven't already got one), get on a one-year PGCE teacher training course and go for it then!

Before this though, as I have said previously, I'd recommend spending a week or so alongside teachers, during which you will find out just how significant the day-to-day stresses of the job are, plus get a feel for the long term-time working hours (65hrs per week for many).

Only then will you be in a position to comment on whether or not teachers get a good deal or not. I wouldn't begin to comment on whether or not you deserve the pay/conditions offered by your employer, without trying it out first.

We've spoken before...

I think you underestimate how stressful life in the private sector can be.

1. You have total job security. There were only 14 teachers fired in the last 40 years, and zero lay-offs/redundancie

s. I think you’ll find a different figure for any other private company.
2. Stress – The stress of having to work significantly harder and longer hours, for less income, just to stay in work.
3. Stress – not knowing if you’ll be laid off at any moment as the company being worked for may fold in these hard times.
4. Stress – Losing your income, means losing your house – unable to pay the mortgage or rent.
5. Pensions – having to pay one third of salary to equal the public sector pensions – I doubt anyone in the private sector can afford to do that.
6. Lack of alternate jobs – If made redundant, jobs are few and far between. There’s almost nothing out there.

Maybe if you feel so stressed in your job, you should quit and join the private sector.

If you sign a contract within the private sector, then you would expect your employer to honour it, if they do not you have recourse to the law.
Public sector workers negotiated a deal in 2008, the government are now going back on this deal, the only recourse the workers have is to withdraw their labour.
If you feel hard done by because you work in the private sector, re train and become a teacher/ doctor/ cleaner. I doubt that this will happen as the potential to earn large sums of money is higher in the private sector.
These are the people who care for our children, the future of our country, and the people that will be paying the pensions in the future, they look after our sick and elderly,and you probably when you become too ill or infirm to care for yourself, yet they are undervalued because these professions are seen as a vocation or the easy option.
You could always become a banker,our govt. seems willing to go to the ends of the earth to make sure that particular part of the private sector doesn't suffer.

Sai-diva,

On what planet are you living?

My “contract” with my employer means absolutely nothing when the company folds.

I will be unemployed, with insufficient funds to support my family or pay the rent.

You spout so flippantly that we should “re train and become a teacher/doctor/ cleaner. Does that apply to the current 2.5 million out of work now, or the hundreds of thousands that are about to lose their current jobs?

What happens to our family or our accommodation whilst this training is being undertaken?

I think you’re in some kind of fantasy fairy land, where you don’t understand what’s happening to us real people on the outside of your very comfortable public sector workplace.

And one other point Sai-diva.

We're not all able to earn vast somes of money in the private sector. In fact, the majority are very low paid.

Alberto The Great wrote:

bucksteacher wrote: Get yourself a suitable Uni degree (if you haven't already got one), get on a one-year PGCE teacher training course and go for it then! Before this though, as I have said previously, I'd recommend spending a week or so alongside teachers, during which you will find out just how significant the day-to-day stresses of the job are, plus get a feel for the long term-time working hours (65hrs per week for many). Only then will you be in a position to comment on whether or not teachers get a good deal or not. I wouldn't begin to comment on whether or not you deserve the pay/conditions offered by your employer, without trying it out first.

We've spoken before... I think you underestimate how stressful life in the private sector can be. 1. You have total job security. There were only 14 teachers fired in the last 40 years, and zero lay-offs/redundancie s. I think you’ll find a different figure for any other private company. 2. Stress – The stress of having to work significantly harder and longer hours, for less income, just to stay in work. 3. Stress – not knowing if you’ll be laid off at any moment as the company being worked for may fold in these hard times. 4. Stress – Losing your income, means losing your house – unable to pay the mortgage or rent. 5. Pensions – having to pay one third of salary to equal the public sector pensions – I doubt anyone in the private sector can afford to do that. 6. Lack of alternate jobs – If made redundant, jobs are few and far between. There’s almost nothing out there. Maybe if you feel so stressed in your job, you should quit and join the private sector.

I work in the public sector. It is no longer a 'job for life'. We have made a significant number of redundancies oin the last year, despite the workload going up. Numbers 2,3,4 and 6 are just the same for me. Yes, i have number 4 but I have historically accepted a lower salary in my field of work than I could have earned in the private sector - my remuneration is my whole pay package.

Alberto The Great wrote:
Sai-diva, On what planet are you living? My “contract” with my employer means absolutely nothing when the company folds. I will be unemployed, with insufficient funds to support my family or pay the rent. You spout so flippantly that we should “re train and become a teacher/doctor/ cleaner. Does that apply to the current 2.5 million out of work now, or the hundreds of thousands that are about to lose their current jobs? What happens to our family or our accommodation whilst this training is being undertaken? I think you’re in some kind of fantasy fairy land, where you don’t understand what’s happening to us real people on the outside of your very comfortable public sector workplace.

Contact me on the other place. You can come and shadow me for a day and see what my colleagues put up with, the hours they work and then you can see if you can tell me about a 'very comfortable public sector workplace'!

bucksteacher wrote:
Get yourself a suitable Uni degree (if you haven't already got one), get on a one-year PGCE teacher training course and go for it then!

Before this though, as I have said previously, I'd recommend spending a week or so alongside teachers, during which you will find out just how significant the day-to-day stresses of the job are, plus get a feel for the long term-time working hours (65hrs per week for many).

Only then will you be in a position to comment on whether or not teachers get a good deal or not. I wouldn't begin to comment on whether or not you deserve the pay/conditions offered by your employer, without trying it out first.

Don't let them wind you up on here. Most th eposts are from the "yoghurts knitting brigade" who want to re inevent the wheel and are not bright enough to work out that it starts with public sector then filters it's way down to the private sector. I am fully behind this strike as we are not all in this together. Cameron is hell bent on dragging us back to the days of be grateful for a few crumbs. I tak no pleasure in forecasting this before the election, this shower will make Thatcher look like Mary Poppins.
Power to the People.

bucksteacher wrote:
Get yourself a suitable Uni degree (if you haven't already got one), get on a one-year PGCE teacher training course and go for it then!

Before this though, as I have said previously, I'd recommend spending a week or so alongside teachers, during which you will find out just how significant the day-to-day stresses of the job are, plus get a feel for the long term-time working hours (65hrs per week for many).

Only then will you be in a position to comment on whether or not teachers get a good deal or not. I wouldn't begin to comment on whether or not you deserve the pay/conditions offered by your employer, without trying it out first.

Don't let them wind you up on here. Most th eposts are from the "yoghurts knitting brigade" who want to re inevent the wheel and are not bright enough to work out that it starts with public sector then filters it's way down to the private sector. I am fully behind this strike as we are not all in this together. Cameron is hell bent on dragging us back to the days of be grateful for a few crumbs. I tak no pleasure in forecasting this before the election, this shower will make Thatcher look like Mary Poppins.
Power to the People.

Alberto The Great wrote:

bucksteacher wrote:
Get yourself a suitable Uni degree (if you haven't already got one), get on a one-year PGCE teacher training course and go for it then!

Before this though, as I have said previously, I'd recommend spending a week or so alongside teachers, during which you will find out just how significant the day-to-day stresses of the job are, plus get a feel for the long term-time working hours (65hrs per week for many).

Only then will you be in a position to comment on whether or not teachers get a good deal or not. I wouldn't begin to comment on whether or not you deserve the pay/conditions offered by your employer, without trying it out first.

We've spoken before...

I think you underestimate how stressful life in the private sector can be.

1. You have total job security. There were only 14 teachers fired in the last 40 years, and zero lay-offs/redundancie

s. I think you’ll find a different figure for any other private company.
2. Stress – The stress of having to work significantly harder and longer hours, for less income, just to stay in work.
3. Stress – not knowing if you’ll be laid off at any moment as the company being worked for may fold in these hard times.
4. Stress – Losing your income, means losing your house – unable to pay the mortgage or rent.
5. Pensions – having to pay one third of salary to equal the public sector pensions – I doubt anyone in the private sector can afford to do that.
6. Lack of alternate jobs – If made redundant, jobs are few and far between. There’s almost nothing out there.

Maybe if you feel so stressed in your job, you should quit and join the private sector.

Stop bleating. There is very little public sector now, destroyed by you and the rest of the electorate who believed what that mad cow Thatcher was doing was great. Be careful what you wish for and you reap what you sow.

Alberto The Great wrote:
And one other point Sai-diva.

We're not all able to earn vast somes of money in the private sector. In fact, the majority are very low paid.

True in part, when the biggest private employer is TESCO. No manufacturing base anymore. Blame Thatcher.

Sparky wrote:
Stop bleating. There is very little public sector now, destroyed by you and the rest of the electorate who believed what that mad cow Thatcher was doing was great.

I was given to understand that your hero's Blair and Brown, enlarged the public sector to record levels, which have proved unsustainable by the resources of the private sector who pay for it all.

New research by Policy Exchange (PX). Here are ten of PX's top findings:

1. On an hourly basis, the typical public sector worker is now 30% better paid than the typical worker in the private sector.

2. This pay advantage is not evenly distributed. It is higher in lower grades, with the bottom 10% of public sector workers now 25% better paid than their private sector equivalents.

3. The public sector wage premium is small in the South East and London, but higher in Scotland Wales the North east and North west, where public sector workers enjoy a 17-20% premium.
4. Over their lifetimes, people in the private sector work 23% more hours (equivalent to 9.2 years of a public sector employee’s working life) – where their public sector counterpart will either be on sick leave, holiday, strike or in retirement.

5. Since 2002 the public sector wage bill has increased three times faster than the private sector wage bill, growing by 33% in real terms, or £67 billion.

6. A remarkable net 97.7% of the increase in numbers of public sector workers has been in education and the NHS.
7. The number of management positions has increased particularly rapidly in recent years - by over 80% between 2002 and 2009.

8. Between 1997 and 2007, public sector productivity also fell, while productivity in the private sector increased by nearly 28% - leaving the former only two-thirds as productive as the latter.

9. Over the last decade the redundancy rate in manufacturing or construction has been seven times higher than in the public sector, roughly defined. During the recession these multiples increased to 16 and 10 times respectively.

10. Public sector employees have better pensions. The difference is worth an extra 15% of their salary.

sparky49 wrote:

bucksteacher wrote: Get yourself a suitable Uni degree (if you haven't already got one), get on a one-year PGCE teacher training course and go for it then! Before this though, as I have said previously, I'd recommend spending a week or so alongside teachers, during which you will find out just how significant the day-to-day stresses of the job are, plus get a feel for the long term-time working hours (65hrs per week for many). Only then will you be in a position to comment on whether or not teachers get a good deal or not. I wouldn't begin to comment on whether or not you deserve the pay/conditions offered by your employer, without trying it out first.

Don't let them wind you up on here. Most th eposts are from the "yoghurts knitting brigade" who want to re inevent the wheel and are not bright enough to work out that it starts with public sector then filters it's way down to the private sector. I am fully behind this strike as we are not all in this together. Cameron is hell bent on dragging us back to the days of be grateful for a few crumbs. I tak no pleasure in forecasting this before the election, this shower will make Thatcher look like Mary Poppins. Power to the People.

You are a completely and utter pratt,

I think you mean complete. Oh please do attempt to bully me and hurl abuse my way. This is a public open forum, if you don't like what you read, do not abuse people, the sign of a lost argument from the school bully.

Alberto The Great wrote:
Sai-diva,

On what planet are you living?

My “contract” with my employer means absolutely nothing when the company folds.

I will be unemployed, with insufficient funds to support my family or pay the rent.

You spout so flippantly that we should “re train and become a teacher/doctor/ cleaner. Does that apply to the current 2.5 million out of work now, or the hundreds of thousands that are about to lose their current jobs?

What happens to our family or our accommodation whilst this training is being undertaken?

I think you’re in some kind of fantasy fairy land, where you don’t understand what’s happening to us real people on the outside of your very comfortable public sector workplace.

This one thanks.
Shall we not go down the 'cheap shot' route that you have employed on another thread, reasoned debate please?I find the words 'I disagree' very useful in these situations.
The 'contract' that the public sector workers signed up to is also apparently worthless, as the government are re writing it. I would assume that at some stage in your life you had a choice of either going to uni and getting the qualifications to teach or become a nurse, with all the depravations that involves, or working in the private sector. Your choice.
I don't know or care how you vote, but the unemployment that we are suffering at the moment is down to the government's reliance on the private sector taking up the slack as the recession that they(the private sector) helped create bites, so taking it out on some of the badly paid is a bit cheesy.
They are even siting that the fact that, as there are less people employed in the public sector they are having to put up pension contributions, yet as I already stated, there is far more going into the pot than is being drawn out of it.
I live very much in the real world thanks,I do not work in the public sector, and take responsibility for my own future. I have no pension at all,as I wasn't talked into a private pension scheme and choose to invest my hard earned money elsewhere, rather than allowing someone else, be it pension manager, or the government,to make money out of it.
I do not resent the fact that public sector workers,who work for our well being, are rewarded with a pension,for which they have negotiated and paid for.

There were no "cheap shots" in my reply to you...

Alberto The Great wrote:
There were no "cheap shots" in my reply to you...

''On what planet are you living?

You spout so flippantly

I think you’re in some kind of fantasy fairy land,''

Erm, I have to disagree, or do you consider these to be well thought and and reasoned arguments?

They are phrases in common use to express disbelief.

A "cheap shot" is to dig at a weakness that someone may have, or unfair remark directed at a defenseless person.

Pah, Semantics.

From Wikki..
''an unnecessarily aggressive and unfair remark directed at a defenseless person''

Ok I'm not defenceless, but 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

sai-diva wrote:
Pah, Semantics.

From Wikki..
''an unnecessarily aggressive and unfair remark directed at a defenseless person''

Ok I'm not defenceless, but 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

OK, I apologise for my remarks.

Alberto The Great wrote:
New research by Policy Exchange (PX). Here are ten of PX's top findings:

1. On an hourly basis, the typical public sector worker is now 30% better paid than the typical worker in the private sector.

2. This pay advantage is not evenly distributed. It is higher in lower grades, with the bottom 10% of public sector workers now 25% better paid than their private sector equivalents.

3. The public sector wage premium is small in the South East and London, but higher in Scotland Wales the North east and North west, where public sector workers enjoy a 17-20% premium.
4. Over their lifetimes, people in the private sector work 23% more hours (equivalent to 9.2 years of a public sector employee’s working life) – where their public sector counterpart will either be on sick leave, holiday, strike or in retirement.

5. Since 2002 the public sector wage bill has increased three times faster than the private sector wage bill, growing by 33% in real terms, or £67 billion.

6. A remarkable net 97.7% of the increase in numbers of public sector workers has been in education and the NHS.
7. The number of management positions has increased particularly rapidly in recent years - by over 80% between 2002 and 2009.

8. Between 1997 and 2007, public sector productivity also fell, while productivity in the private sector increased by nearly 28% - leaving the former only two-thirds as productive as the latter.

9. Over the last decade the redundancy rate in manufacturing or construction has been seven times higher than in the public sector, roughly defined. During the recession these multiples increased to 16 and 10 times respectively.

10. Public sector employees have better pensions. The difference is worth an extra 15% of their salary.

Again from Wikki.
Policy Exchange is a British conservative think tank based in London. The Daily Telegraph has described it as "the largest, but also the most influential think tank on the right". The New Statesman named it as David Cameron's "favourite think tank", a view shared by the Political Editor of the Evening Standard Joe Murphy, who referred to it as "the intellectual boot camp of the Tory modernisers’"

So the Policy Exchange might have a bit of an 'agenda' then.

Alberto The Great wrote:

sai-diva wrote:
Pah, Semantics.

From Wikki..
''an unnecessarily aggressive and unfair remark directed at a defenseless person''

Ok I'm not defenceless, but 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

OK, I apologise for my remarks.

Blimey! Thank you,
I do enjoy a 'toothsome' debate though.

Alberto The Great wrote:

sai-diva wrote:
Pah, Semantics.

From Wikki..
''an unnecessarily aggressive and unfair remark directed at a defenseless person''

Ok I'm not defenceless, but 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

OK, I apologise for my remarks.

Blimey! Thank you,
I do enjoy a 'toothsome' debate though.

A further comment on the Policy Exchange findings...

I imagine their calculations (for teachers in the public sector) will be based on the 'directed time' that we are required to spend on the school premises in each year - 1265 hours, which as many would quickly point out is effectively part-time.

However, I and many of my colleagues work around 60-65 hours per week during term time, which worked out over a 48-week year is still over 50 hours per week - above the 48 hour working time limit, set by (guess who) - the government.

A further comment on the Policy Exchange findings...

I imagine their calculations (for teachers in the public sector) will be based on the 'directed time' that we are required to spend on the school premises in each year - 1265 hours, which as many would quickly point out is effectively part-time.

However, I and many of my colleagues work around 60-65 hours per week during term time, which worked out over a 48-week year is still over 50 hours per week - above the 48 hour working time limit, set by (guess who) - the government.

Just a thought on the policy exchange I'm sure someone very famous and more learned than myself said that,
''there are lies, **** lies, and statistics''

Just a thought on the policy exchange I'm sure someone very famous and more learned than myself said that,
''there are lies, **** lies, and statistics''

93.8% of statistics are made-up.

There are lots of people out there who would be grateful for a job and even more you would like a pension.
People need to get real.