Tory questions own council over stadium millions (From Bucks Free Press)

Well said Mr Foley.

Wasn't Lesley Clarke gifted a framed photo of Steve Hayes and didn't she also attended a firework display at his home?

This honeypot for Steve Hayes, which I am amazed can be ringfenced in the current economic climate, could be spent maintaining and improving other more fundamental council services, but Lesley just carries on wilfully and recklessly wasting what little money we have left.

There is no net benefit to this town in having Wasps here. On Saturday you will see fat middle-aged people waddling through town on their way to the ground in over-priced black and yellow rugby tops and other Wasps paraphenalia.

The money spent on tickets, kit and stuff goes straight into Hayes pockets, it doesn't even promote local rugby as local kids go to HWRFC to train. Now if the council spent millions promoting HWRFC then that would be a noble cause indeed, as hundreds of local children stand to benefit.

You cannot go on doing this Lesley, two hundred years ago you would have been hung, drawn and quartered in the streets for your actions, now you get to call the police if someone f@rts in your office. There is something very wrong with this system of ours.

I think there is something very wrong with this council of ours Punchy.
The trouble is they can do what they like because they have the majority vote and there is NO effective opposition to stop them.
This is not a democracy - this is an autocracy.

Seems only Cllr Foley your the only Tory who is big enough to speak out against Clarke and her cronies
Seems we now have Cllr Snaith (Lib Dem) , Cllr Farmer (Lib Dem) and, Cllr Foley(Con) the supporters and the residents of High Wycombe Against The Tory administation.
Come on the rest of you Tory Councillors speak out against giving money to this project !!!

A man of integrity, well done Sir, we need more Mr Foleys.

I think we would all be very impressed if the potential candidate for Wycombe perhaps stepped in and did some challenging.
BUT I fear that Wycombe is being used by him as a political step ladder.
What does he really care?
I am ready to be proved wrong though.

wayneo wrote:
A man of integrity, well done Sir, we need more Mr Foleys.

He kept his mouth shut over the swimming pool though!

Still small steps and all that.

Welcome to the awkward squad Cllr Foley

demoness, Hades says...
9:04am Fri 29 Jan 10

I think we would all be very impressed if the potential candidate for Wycombe perhaps stepped in and did some challenging.
BUT I fear that Wycombe is being used by him as a political step ladder.
What does he really care?
I am ready to be proved wrong though.

I agree - I have NEVER seen this chap around Totteridge.

Again Conservatives quick to exploit the headlines for their own gain.

A token gesture I feel...

aspen g wrote:
demoness, Hades says... 9:04am Fri 29 Jan 10 I think we would all be very impressed if the potential candidate for Wycombe perhaps stepped in and did some challenging. BUT I fear that Wycombe is being used by him as a political step ladder. What does he really care? I am ready to be proved wrong though. I agree - I have NEVER seen this chap around Totteridge. Again Conservatives quick to exploit the headlines for their own gain. A token gesture I feel...

I can understand and fully appreciate why there's so much discontent with politics at the moment, but surely. where our elected representatives do the right thing, as this chap has done, we should be offering encouragement, not continue to question motives. I wish political parties could be taken out of local Government altogether, take Julia Wassell, I don't agree with her politics or policies, I do however hold her in very high esteem because what I know of her, she is principled and will stand up to the likes of Clarke and Green.

Hi Wayneo
Take political parties out of local govt would be nice. Aint going to happen though.
Whats needed though is a even balance of power between parties and local residents.
Aint going to happen in Wycombe until Tory Stranglehold is removed at local Govt level and Wycombe parliamentary level !!

towncryer wrote:
Hi Wayneo Take political parties out of local govt would be nice. Aint going to happen though. Whats needed though is a even balance of power between parties and local residents. Aint going to happen in Wycombe until Tory Stranglehold is removed at local Govt level and Wycombe parliamentary level !!

Agreed

If, when Steve Hayes took control of Wycombe Wanderers from the Trust in summer by threatening to call in the loans he had made, the club had asked for financial help from the Council to avert his takeover, it would have been seen as a private business matter and nothing to do with local authority. Now he is asking for a council funded new stadium that benefits Steve Hayes' business interests, a small number of people and neither club seems to want, local money CAN be invested? Do the council really see that as a boost for the wider local economy and worthy of such investment when thousands are facing problems, roads have big holes in them and the local hospital trust is having to borrow money to pay wages?

Has Adams Park really been there for 20 years? Wow! I still remember my days spent stood on the terraces behind the goal Wanderers were attacking, then changing ends at half time!

I think it's good for Wycombe to retain Wasps in the town, it certainly benefits the Wanderers and the through-trade can't be doing any harm.

I seem to remember (perhaps wrongly?!?) that Adams Park was built with the potential to add another grandstand above the existing ones in order to increase capacity

But, this MUST be funded privately, local authority money needs to be going into local services...which, let's face it, are in dire need of investment.

Wayneo - intention is everything. If you are 'raising a question' to further your own agenda - then you aren't really benefitting anyone but yourself.

I would even put a bet on that it was a 'stage managed' question - 'look we tried - but no such luck'.

I'm hugely cynical of Conservatives - they only work for the benefit of their own.

We may not agree about much, Punchy but your comment earlier was right on the money. Wasps do absolutely nothing for this town, yet we and WWFC are being held to ransom by this twit, stamping his little feet and threatening to leave unless he gets what he wants.

~

As for your description of fat, middle aged muppets waddling through town in black and yellow wasps shirts that are too small, well what an image. Made me laugh tho!

It certainly leaves many questions unanswered and with both clubs making losses, this is a huge gamble at our expense; also, the promulgation that this is some sort of community stadium is quite frankly laughable.

i feel for the Blues fans in this,



June 2005
Hayes says"we need to get some success on the field and if that PERSONALLY costs me some money, i'm quite happy to put that in".

April - June 2006
Submission of Core Strategy which included recommending that Adams park be taken out of Green belt because "the construction of this substantial stadium has removed the essential characteristic of openness from the site.

August 2006, Wycombe Sports Developments Ltd incorporated, this is supposedly the stadium management company.

Feb 2007
Push to remove 25% limitation on any one person owning WWFC shares

Feb2007
Council publish report on including possible relocation of Adams' park

Aug 2007
Hayes buys share in WASPs

In April 2008,
planning inspectorate takes Adams' park out of green belt to reflect its "already built up nature".

July 2008

Wycombe Core Strategy accepted by the Council

Nov 2008
Hayes asks fans "Let me own Blues", to convert debt to shares

June2009
The Blues MD, who has lent the club more than £7m (while he was managing Director), wants full control and says if he doesn’t get it the funding stops now.

June2009
WW trust board, narrowly accept Steve haye's proposals to remove the 25% share cap.

Present

Council may invest millions in new stadium

I am the Wasps ST holder quoted in the article, and I have been talking to another Wasps ST holder today.

He helps run an amateur sports club in Prestwood, that my daughter attends, that is in dire need of a facility that they have no chance of being able to afford.

This club has produced Wycombe-based county/regional champions, but trains in facilities that are much too small, and which they have restricted access to. They also have over 200 members training every week with even more on their waiting list.

Because of costs in this area they have no chance of raising the money by grants from, e.g., the Lottery.

This is the sort of Club the Council should be supporting.

However he did point out that Hull City Council built the KC stadium, which is used by Football and Rugby clubs, and has turned out to be quite successful. However this was done off the back of Hull Council divesting themselves of Kingston Communications. A luxury item WDC haven't got.

Assuming the cost of membership to HWRFC is £100 or thereabouts a year, WDC could fund membership for 1000 Wycombe children for only £100k per annum.

Seeing as Lesley has a million free, why not allocate this to a 10 year membership for 1,000 kids.
Now this money would change the lives of 1,000 citizens of Wycombe forever, teaching the values of friendship, team effort, hard work and physical exercise.

Lesley Clarke cannot identify a single substantial benefit to the local community of the many millions she proposes to sink into this stadium scheme.

Knowingly squandering millions, in a way that is clearly to the public detriment, surely must fall foul of some piece of legislation or other?

Removing political parties from local councils would be as hard as it was getting rid or Al Capone and the Mafia out of 1920's Chicago. (They are still there !)
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Or more appropriately getting rid of the dreaded dangerous salmonella-related disease out of the chickens and eggs some of us eat. (Introduced to us via (pig-)ignorant politicians , mad scientists and powerful multi-national agri-chemical industries).
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The now poisonous disease of party politics is need of a radical and anti-biotic remedy , at this point in British history.
.
Fingers crossed

why do they need to move to create more capacity...???..Wemb
ley didnt, it was increased on the very same footprint as the old stadium, all they need to do at Adams Park. is move the stand furthest from town outwards, therefore being able to make the south stand longer, and the main stand that houses the clubhouse etc can be extended too, and to be honest the south stand could in effect be made taller to create more seating too it only backs onto the woods FFS its not gonna disturb anyone...
the money that WDC are alleged to be putting into this project would certainly increase our fleet of gritting lorries, stock pile more salt, and repair our roads that much faster with more contractors being employed...!!!...i think this is a bad idea for WDC to partake of this ventuire...let Hayes foot the bill himself..

sportsturf wrote:
why do they need to move to create more capacity...???..Wemb ley didnt, it was increased on the very same footprint as the old stadium, all they need to do at Adams Park. is move the stand furthest from town outwards, therefore being able to make the south stand longer, and the main stand that houses the clubhouse etc can be extended too, and to be honest the south stand could in effect be made taller to create more seating too it only backs onto the woods FFS its not gonna disturb anyone... the money that WDC are alleged to be putting into this project would certainly increase our fleet of gritting lorries, stock pile more salt, and repair our roads that much faster with more contractors being employed...!!!...i think this is a bad idea for WDC to partake of this ventuire...let Hayes foot the bill himself..

Unfortunately it's not just about a stadium, there will be restuarants, bars, retail outlets etc, it's going to rip the heart out of the villages and the smaller businesses. It's all in the articles of memorandum of the company that Hayes created in 2006, "Wycombe Sports Developments Ltd".

I would not normally agree with Cllr Foley on most things.
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I don't agree with his politics.
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But on this issue, I do agree with him.
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I cannot see how or why WDC should be involved in a football stadium.
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When one looks around the country at football clubs and the like, deficits and bankruptcies are the order of things at the moment.
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Why should our council get involved in a similar risky project?
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It seems the millionnaire owner of the Wanderers is letting the council in on a project he is interested in.
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That is a typical scammers procedure - he doesn't use his own money to take the risks with - he uses other people's money.
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If the project fails, the millionnaire will still have his millions and the council taxpayer will be paying for it for years.

demoness wrote:
I think there is something very wrong with this council of ours Punchy. The trouble is they can do what they like because they have the majority vote and there is NO effective opposition to stop them. This is not a democracy - this is an autocracy.

Spot on

Phredd wrote:
I am the Wasps ST holder quoted in the article, and I have been talking to another Wasps ST holder today.

He helps run an amateur sports club in Prestwood, that my daughter attends, that is in dire need of a facility that they have no chance of being able to afford.

This club has produced Wycombe-based county/regional champions, but trains in facilities that are much too small, and which they have restricted access to. They also have over 200 members training every week with even more on their waiting list.

Because of costs in this area they have no chance of raising the money by grants from, e.g., the Lottery.

This is the sort of Club the Council should be supporting.

However he did point out that Hull City Council built the KC stadium, which is used by Football and Rugby clubs, and has turned out to be quite successful. However this was done off the back of Hull Council divesting themselves of Kingston Communications. A luxury item WDC haven't got.

No , that's right , WDC didn't own a telephone company.
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But haven't you noticed they have been selling off all sorts of other public-owned assets in the last 24 months.
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Haven't you noticed ? And there's still a few ( a diminishing number) left.
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Makes you think doesn't it ? It's not being done for the welfare or well-being of Wycombe folk , that's for sure.

Yeah - the only assets that WDC have is land!
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And that is what they are planning to sell off!

The old library will be next.
Then the chair museum - they will relocate it to a smaller place.

You watch ... it will happen.

wayneo wrote:

aspen g wrote:
demoness, Hades says... 9:04am Fri 29 Jan 10 I think we would all be very impressed if the potential candidate for Wycombe perhaps stepped in and did some challenging. BUT I fear that Wycombe is being used by him as a political step ladder. What does he really care? I am ready to be proved wrong though. I agree - I have NEVER seen this chap around Totteridge. Again Conservatives quick to exploit the headlines for their own gain. A token gesture I feel...

I can understand and fully appreciate why there's so much discontent with politics at the moment, but surely. where our elected representatives do the right thing, as this chap has done, we should be offering encouragement, not continue to question motives. I wish political parties could be taken out of local Government altogether, take Julia Wassell, I don't agree with her politics or policies, I do however hold her in very high esteem because what I know of her, she is principled and will stand up to the likes of Clarke and Green.

There should be no politics involved in parish councils, and usually, there isn't. When you get to district level and above, however, it's not possible or practicable to try to work it without the backing of the parties.
I wouldn't hold Julia Wassall in much esteem though. She is so principled that she leaves the Green party to join Labour, then, just before she's kicked out, leaves them for the Lib Dems. Speaks volumes about her principles when she doesn't even keep the same rhetoric. She appears to stand up to Cllr Clarke, et al, but she's all bluster. Rarely says anything other than what she thinks people want to hear. Often abstains on votes, not showing or recording real opposition.

BJB8 wrote:

wayneo wrote:

aspen g wrote: demoness, Hades says... 9:04am Fri 29 Jan 10 I think we would all be very impressed if the potential candidate for Wycombe perhaps stepped in and did some challenging. BUT I fear that Wycombe is being used by him as a political step ladder. What does he really care? I am ready to be proved wrong though. I agree - I have NEVER seen this chap around Totteridge. Again Conservatives quick to exploit the headlines for their own gain. A token gesture I feel...

I can understand and fully appreciate why there's so much discontent with politics at the moment, but surely. where our elected representatives do the right thing, as this chap has done, we should be offering encouragement, not continue to question motives. I wish political parties could be taken out of local Government altogether, take Julia Wassell, I don't agree with her politics or policies, I do however hold her in very high esteem because what I know of her, she is principled and will stand up to the likes of Clarke and Green.

There should be no politics involved in parish councils, and usually, there isn't. When you get to district level and above, however, it's not possible or practicable to try to work it without the backing of the parties. I wouldn't hold Julia Wassall in much esteem though. She is so principled that she leaves the Green party to join Labour, then, just before she's kicked out, leaves them for the Lib Dems. Speaks volumes about her principles when she doesn't even keep the same rhetoric. She appears to stand up to Cllr Clarke, et al, but she's all bluster. Rarely says anything other than what she thinks people want to hear. Often abstains on votes, not showing or recording real opposition.

But that's the problem where parties are involved at any level, there is a conflict of interest where Councillors/MPs who are responsible to their electorate vote to party agenda, that is not democracy.

As for Julia Wassall and integrity, it's naive to believe that anybody is perfect, a simple analogy is that some people like opera some people hate it, depends on what opera does for you that matters.