Cllr Bill Chapple defends meeting despite claims Marlow debate 'completely failed' (From Bucks Free Press)
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Cllr Bill Chapple defends meeting despite claims Marlow debate 'completely failed'
5:30pm Sunday 5th September 2010 in
THE first meeting in South Bucks on council spending cuts was labelled a “nonsense” after a “ludicrous turnout” of just 22 people.
The ‘Bucks Debates’ came to Marlow on Friday night - with the aim of engaging taxpayers in a discussion on where the axe should fall.
Buckinghamshire County Council faces around a 25 per cent reduction in its funding.
But only about a handful of residents turned up for the ‘interactive’ meeting at Great Marlow School in Bobmore Lane, Marlow.
The majority who attended were councillors serving at either parish, town, district or county level or council staff.
BCC Deputy Leader Bill Chapple insisted the discussion had still been ‘meaningful’.
He said he was determined to give residents their say and defended the idea, saying it was up to residents who had “at least had the chance” to come.
Officials from neighbouring counties who were interested in the idea of the debates, had talked to him about running similar events, he said.
But Barbara Wallis, a Little Marlow Parish Councillor, said: “The few people here just makes a nonsense of it.
"It’s meant to be one of the Wycombe District consultations but it’s completely failed - just count the numbers.
“It’s just ridiculous, the turnout is ludicrous.”
John Evans, retired, of Spinfield Park, Marlow, backed Cllr Wallis, saying: “It’s living up to expectations, it’s just ticking boxes.
"Can we honestly go away and say we have had a consultation?”
It was not a conventional public meeting, with those who came being split into groups and asked to carry out an exercise.
They were given cards with categories such as ‘planning and environment’ briefly summarising what the department does and how much it costs.
They were asked to look at which services they would scrap and which could be funded differently.
Marlow resident John Barlow said the debate should focus on scrapping the two-tier council system and creating one single authority.
“We have got an organisation that does 80 per cent of it, why can’t that organisation do 100 per cent of it? Why can’t BCC just do everything?” he asked.
He said it would remove “an enormous layer of bureaucracy”.
Bcc Chief Executive Chris Williams told him the idea had been examined before and it had been estimated savings of more than £20 million would have been made.
But district council bosses were against it.
Cllr Chapple was not dispirited by the turnout. He said: “The people who were here worked diligently at the exercises. They did it in a meaningful way.
“You tell me what a good number is.
"300 would have been nice but we are competing with a Friday night when people go away, football is on television.
"It’s their free time and I know that as a family man.”
“I don’t think we did it wrong. I think you have got to realise we have to cover the whole county in a fairly quick time.
"There’s nothing worse than something dragging on for weeks and weeks.”
Fridays could not be discounted, he said.
Further meetings will take place over the next fortnight (see link below) including High Wycombe on September 13.
Cllr Chapple said the meetings were only one way to join the debate.
He strongly encouraged residents to hold their own debates at home, aided by ‘toolkits’ from its website or commenting on the blog.
Visit the link below to find out more.
Comments(21)
towncryer
says...
5:58pm Sun 5 Sep 10
Be assured hall would be full !!!
Slimster
says...
6:46pm Sun 5 Sep 10
+
However, while most of these meetings are 7pm-9pm, the Wycombe meeting is from 10am-12pm. Why?
yog
says...
6:54pm Sun 5 Sep 10
Shameful decision by the Conservatives to exclude Wycombe.
northbrook50
says...
7:42pm Sun 5 Sep 10
Plus ça change...
says...
8:25pm Sun 5 Sep 10
And we forget we vote people in to do a job for us.
Let them get on with it.
Lividov
says...
8:57pm Sun 5 Sep 10
miccles
says...
11:08pm Sun 5 Sep 10
Why is there a meeting in Wycombe at 10.am - 12.00pm, because that was probably an afterthought, also knowing alot of people may not be able to attend due to day to day business.
Wycombe is always shafted from all corners of the county, BCC are not interested in this corner of Buckinghamshire, they are only interested in Aylesbury.
Perhaps this proves what people really think of this lying, deceitful council. WDC are no innocent angels either.
To all at BCC and WDC Wycombe residents did not come down in the last shower.
Voyeur
says...
12:24am Mon 6 Sep 10
.
The so-called consultation is a farce.
.
The only reason they go through with it is to justify the horrible cuts when they come.
.
I agree that they should get going with a Unitary Authority to save money.
.
I can only think of several hyndreds of thousands of pounds, allowances, I mean reasons, why they don't do that.
.
Vested interests just get in the way when tough decisions have to be made.
.
By the way, what was the 60s party like on Saturday night?
ferrellcat
says...
2:42am Mon 6 Sep 10
Plus ça change... wrote:Spot on.I voted and got my say by those I chose.If my dustcart or postman arrives at 7am or 3pm thats my lot in life. Do not ask what I think of it because that is how it is. Likewise with my elected representatives.Get it wrong and you are out next time around.It is not the electors job to be asked for there opinion.I did that at the ballot box
We seem to churn stuff over again and again to no purpose. And we forget we vote people in to do a job for us. Let them get on with it.
wayneo
says...
9:09am Mon 6 Sep 10
whitetea
says...
9:34am Mon 6 Sep 10
towncryer wrote:It's ludicrous that the meeting was not held in Wycombe and fear this was tactical sneeky move to exclude the Wycobme community from voting.
WE WANT MEETING IN WYCOMBE
Be assured hall would be full !!!
The event was hardly advertised and did not give the local community/ Taxpayers the opportunity to take part. In my opinion this was not fair and any votes should be held void and is CERTAINLY NOT MEANINGFUL.
WE NEED A MEETING IN WYCOMBE AND GOOD ADVERTISING / PUBLICITY EVENT.
The meeting that took place was BIAS AND NEEDS TO BE DECLARED VOID!!! High majority who turned up being council workers/ officials. No doubt this is an example of more taxpayers down the toilet to pay for this useless meeting.
ONCE AGAIN DISGUSTED AT THE LACK OF PLANNING FOR THIS EVENT!
whitetea
says...
9:39am Mon 6 Sep 10
miccles wrote:I agree with miccles and also feel that WDC can not be trusted as in my opinion I have found them to be lying and decietful. WDC NEED TO BE NAMED AND SHAMED!!!
Once again Wycombe has been shafted good and proper.
Why is there a meeting in Wycombe at 10.am - 12.00pm, because that was probably an afterthought, also knowing alot of people may not be able to attend due to day to day business.
Wycombe is always shafted from all corners of the county, BCC are not interested in this corner of Buckinghamshire, they are only interested in Aylesbury.
Perhaps this proves what people really think of this lying, deceitful council. WDC are no innocent angels either.
To all at BCC and WDC Wycombe residents did not come down in the last shower.
whitetea
says...
9:43am Mon 6 Sep 10
Ewartwhatyoubulldoze
says...
12:16pm Mon 6 Sep 10
1) They don't listen
or
2) They cherry pick what the public says to justify cuts they wanted to make anyway
Just get on with it and forget the sham meetings.
Slimster
says...
2:06pm Mon 6 Sep 10
Ewartwhatyoubulldoze wrote:They don't listen? Well most people on here don't seem to be able to read properly. Most of those who commented did not pick up on the fact that there is a meeting in Wycombe. Read the flipping article and check before venting!
Two possible outcomes from the meetings:-
1) They don't listen
or
2) They cherry pick what the public says to justify cuts they wanted to make anyway
Just get on with it and forget the sham meetings.
miccles
says...
3:32pm Mon 6 Sep 10
Slimster wrote:Yes there is a meeting, BUT its on Monday 13th September 10.00am-12.00pm, now WHY is that the ONLY meeting to be held during the day??????
Ewartwhatyoubulldoze wrote:They don't listen? Well most people on here don't seem to be able to read properly. Most of those who commented did not pick up on the fact that there is a meeting in Wycombe. Read the flipping article and check before venting!
Two possible outcomes from the meetings:-
1) They don't listen
or
2) They cherry pick what the public says to justify cuts they wanted to make anyway
Just get on with it and forget the sham meetings.
Most of us have to work during the day
that says alot about what they think of Wycombe.
KTinBucks
says...
7:35pm Mon 6 Sep 10
I was quoted 33 attendees at the first event, 22 at Marlow - with 10 meetings. Let's be generous & assume 1000 participants across all events. This is NOISE! - not representation! It provides NO GUIDANCE whatsoever nor any mandate to utilise the findings as support for any decision.
The exercise is facile; it is unreasonably predicated on cutting services as a given!
Lets talk about cutting managers by 10%, salaries by 10%, abandoning final salary pensions, complete with unethical indexation. Lets constrain the expenses, the travel, the unjustifiable company cars. Let's manage the costs first, only then let's speak of the services.
cutflower
says...
8:44am Tue 7 Sep 10
KTinBucks wrote:I think a lot of jobs at the council are done twice or mybe even three times,after reporting that some rubish was dumped giving full details and location a council worker turned up in a car took a picture and went again.I supose he then went back to right a report for some else to come out and collect it it is now a week since reporting it.Surely cuts could be made on simple things like that what else has three people doing one job.In the private sector these people would be sacked for wasting company money.So come on heads of council sort this out cut back unnecessary paperwork
I attended the meeting in Marlow. When I discovered the meeting was biased, I left. The councillors did not want a debate; they wanted attendees to rank 35 services in priority sequence - organised as a"party game" to have folk feel "involved". They were not interested in views or opinions (to which they paid lip service). They only wanted to go through the motions & be able to claim politically that they had involved the citizens. This is an insult! I was quoted 33 attendees at the first event, 22 at Marlow - with 10 meetings. Let's be generous & assume 1000 participants across all events. This is NOISE! - not representation! It provides NO GUIDANCE whatsoever nor any mandate to utilise the findings as support for any decision. The exercise is facile; it is unreasonably predicated on cutting services as a given! Lets talk about cutting managers by 10%, salaries by 10%, abandoning final salary pensions, complete with unethical indexation. Lets constrain the expenses, the travel, the unjustifiable company cars. Let's manage the costs first, only then let's speak of the services.
JohnB27
says...
5:47pm Fri 10 Sep 10
I'm not an apologist for the Council but they can't get it right! The Marlow meeting was the first in a series so there are more opportunities to attend; however, as highlighted above, the maximum attendees will be at best about 1000. So not much chance of the meetings representing the people of Bucks.
If the Council did not hold meetings then we would castigate them for NOT seeking our views.
No the major fault is that the "consultation" was designed around the areas that BCC wanted to discuss rather than taking on board other options.
Cllr. Bill Chapple said that BCC supplies 80% of all the services we receive. This means that the FOUR District Councils collectively supply the remaining 20%. In that case, broadly speaking, each District Council supplies about 5% of our services**.
It seems too obvious that for major efficiencies to be made they should cut out the District Councils. £20M in one swoop and NO AFFECT whatsoever on services! Seems straightforward.
It won't happen though because too many County Councillors double up on their expenses by being District Councillors as well!
** It's less than 5% as the Town Councils and Parish Councils do some of the work too.
JohnB27
says...
6:12pm Mon 13 Sep 10
'm not an accountant so would readily accept help if I'm misinterpreting the figures; but here goes.
Bill Chapple Deputy Leader of Bucks County Council says that BCC provides 80% of all services that people in Bucks receive. In order to do this Bucks CC spends £314M
Providing the remaining 20% of services the four District Councils spend spend £317M which is about the same!
So the real position is that Bucks CC spends half of Council Taxes providing 80% of services and
The four District Councils collectively spend half of Council Taxes providing 20% of services
How can the spends be so out of balance? It seems obvious that if we have a new Super Council providing 100% of services then enormous savings will be made with NO LOSS OF SERVICES
It would of course also stop Councilors like Bill Chapple receiving generous allowances from TWO Councils as he (and too many others) do under the current system.
No wonder the only people wanting to preserve the status quo are the District Councilors who sit on the County Council too.
For Info above figures based on:
£187M spent by Wycombe DC
£110M spent by Aylesbury Vale DC
£ 9M spent by South Bucks DC
£ 11M spent by Chesham DC
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BCC Deputy Leader Bill Chapple is determined to give residents a say and strongly encouraged more to get involved
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ivor says...
5:41pm Sun 5 Sep 10
~
If they can't organise a meeting that attracts more than 22 people is it any wonder they can't get the potholes filled or the roads gritted!
~
Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.