"On the other hand there are those who perceive themselves as deprived and yet are able to buy drink in such quantities"

Hi Colin. Drink's cheap. One of the basic necessities (housing) is now so expensive as to be essentially unaffordable to any but those whose immediate families already own property and leave an inheritance. No amount of effort on their part is going to secure their future, so no surprise they don't see much point to playing by society's rules.

" abysmal failure of us all to provide these young people with the feeling of self worth that comes through tough love."

The neoconservatives have already given these generations plenty of stick. A bit of carrot's more than overdue.

To be fair Pete, I believe Colin was criticising the parents and the parent generation for the way in which the more antisocial elements can behave, rather than just blaming the youth.

IN many respects I agree. The problem is not that we somehow have a generation that is genetically predisposed to violence. They have come to believe they are entitled to something they may not have earned. This can be brought about by the authority figures in their lives giving the impression that because there are successful, wealthy or privileged people, then everyone should have the same benefits as those examples.

The truth is that some achieve success through preferential treatment due to status or influence. But most of us who have a home, a job, a family and, dare I say it, a life, have done so because we started off with little, and worked our way up to where we are.

If parents and society as a whole give young people the impression that they are somehow entitled to everything others have without having to earn it, then inevitably a sense of injustice builds. I suspect most conflict is down to a perceived sense of injustice, whether that injustice is real or not.

My sad prognosis is that things are only going to get worse. This is because in order to restore some sense of value to the important social aspects of life, we must increase the relative worth of the community around us. In order to do that, people must find themselves more reliant on their neighbours and family to achieve a happy life. IN a modern society which measures success by independence, either physical or financial, this is a difficult model to restore. Colin's reference to the wartime generation is a good example. People valued behavioural standards, because without them, everyone was worse off. Sharing and mutual support were the only way to make progress in an environment where most people had little. My sadness arises because I cannot honestly see voters choosing voluntarily to return to a time of having little, in order to restore some semblance of social cohesion.

We must try to restore the belief that boundaries are good. Saying that we must not restrict children's potential or impose our wil upon those for whom we have responsibility achieves nothing but a generation who don't know where the boundaries lie, and thus have no sense of responsibility to others. I recently saw a quote which said, "We have a bil of rights. Where's the bill of responsibilities?" You shouldn't have one without the other.

What you are both missing here is the fact that many times these hoodlums are left to their own devices without a parent in the picture or with parents so wrapped up in themselves and making money that they cannot see what is really happening.
Also, their is an aspect of denial here. The idea that my "sweet,little one" would never do anything so horrible is a form of denial. When 15 or 20 people say "oh yes your sweet little one did do that" then it's time for parents to face the truth. During World War II, everyone was fighting for what was right and preserving family values if at all possible. Those basic family values are out the window (except at Baker Towers, of course.) and the hoodlums do not know the meaning of what punishment will come there way as a result of their actions.
In the USA, we have a celebrity named Hulk Hogan, of wrestling fame. His son was involved in a very bad car accident that was a result of drag racing another car. The accident has left his so-called best friend brain damaged. The son got a lousy 8 months in jail and in less than a week was whining about being there. Meantime, his friend is hospitalized with no real life anymore. Actions have consequences.