Stadium project axed (From Bucks Free Press)

HOOOOOOOORAAAAAAAAAY - Well done WDC well done GASP for all your hard work! Well done everyone!

Excellent news!
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Well done to all those who opposed the scheme.
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I will be publishing a special blog on this topic in a few moments!
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Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the pag

Well done - sanity for once and thankyou GASP for your efforts.
Steve Hayes your nasty little bully boy ways have not worked how does it feel?

Thank Goodness for common sense and the green belt. Now let's get talking about how to make a real positive future for recreational aviation at Booker Air Park.

Well done Gasp and all concerned. It's reassuring to know that "the system" works.

well done GASP, well done wycombe District Council, and well done every one who fought so hard and so well to gain this victory.
Democracy is alive and well in Wycombe.

Please do also feel free to add your comments to GASPs blog:

http://blog.gasp-no.
org/?p=645

Sensible decision all round. Well done to everyone who opposed.

sw: park-push

I'd like a small pool, CV room, small running track and the rest about a 3/4 of a mile from my house.

I promise I'll walk.

... with repeat facilities all over the District.

No parking.

Well done. I feel that bit better about local politics! Councillors can listen to the views of the local population.

well done to all those who have campaigned tirelessly against hayes"s monstrosity, who have voiced their opinions and have taken to the streets to deliver their message! also thanks must go to those in power who have seen through the hayes publicity machine and the "threats", have adhered firmly and fairly to the law, and have truly acted in the interests of the ratepayers of this town.

Well done, a victory for common sense and democracy for once!
Well done to GASP for all their organising efforts.
And also victory for those wanting a better Handy Cross Sports Complex; you may yet get one.
Let's hope that a decent long-term future for recreational flying at Booker can now be assured, for as far into the future as it's already been there, and that's over seventy years.
And well done to BFP for the "live" feed tonight, very helpful in the overflow room.

This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Its is unbelievable that a scheme like this could get so far without being stopped earlier.
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For anyone interested my special blog has just been published....
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Have you read Ivor’s blog today? Click on the “BLOGS” link at the top of the page.

Absolutely marvellous.

it begars belief that you believe that hayes would be the saviour of WWFC they dont wish to be his tenants, losing THEIR ground, the supporters trust couldnt support the stadium and no chairboys fans i know of would give hayes the time of day. WWFC existed long before piggy arrived, and they"ll exist long after hes gone.

blues chick wrote:
This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

If you had taken the trouble to be in the Council chamber tonight 'blues chick' you would have heard the leaders comments on the business case, who was going to find the £10m shortfall, and why has no investor come forward. Could it be the business plan doesn't make any sense?

If Steve Hayes wants to bring down WWFC it's in his power, but why would he choose to do so?

Why did so many WWFC fans join the protest on Saturday? I think it was to protect WWFC.

Blues chick you are a sad old bird. If you had taken more care to protect Adams Park from the greed of Steve Hayes Wanderers might still have a future. Con men are always plausable but the football club had a very bad day when Wasps moved in. You brought it all on yourselves.
GASP and all the groups who are part of GASP have all fought hard to win this victory, It is now up to Wycombe Wanderers to fight to save your club from the con trick that threatens to finnish you.

blues chick wrote:
This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Sorry to see someone so dissapointed, but as a person of 21 I am not an old biggot.
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Mr Hayes has run up huge debts for this club to try to scare us into finding other sources of revenue and accepting the use of the ground by another club to supplement our income. It is my opinion he also did this to be able to take a controlling stake in the club. This meant he could make the decisions of both Wanderers and Wasps and therefore try to convince large numbers of fans to support the stadium. This was never about a new ground for Wycombe, Wasps need one, so he could use Wasps fans to try to convince the council and influence any consultation. However his intention was to use the land at Booker to make him an awful lot of money, notably the office space and the hotel. What he offered the local area were, aside from the indoor racket club, merely grass with painted lines, which would not fit on the site and cost little.
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Wycombe Wanderers will be here for a long time coming, if he ups and leaves he will only prove us right, it will show he doesn't care about the club.
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What should not be pursued however is a new access road to the ground, using very little green belt land, to allow for the increasing of capacity above the Main Stand, with a new tier, should he choose to do so for Wasps. This retains the atmosphere for Wanderers as it would be closed for our matches, so crowds are not dispersed and allows Wasps the needed capacity increase. Also for Wycombe matches it reduces congestion, and allows an increased capacity if there is a massive game.

Sad day for Wycombe .... nearly 125 years of history now on a knife edge

What should now be pursued*

Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there.
Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

Please tell me why we should do so? A team in Buckinghamshire, with an average attendence well suited for League One or Two, with a Rugby club supplementing finances also. The only reason we would falter is bad management on Hayes side. Other less well off clubs, in poorer areas with fewer gate receipts, which are less appealing to players perform very well, we have no reason to falter.

Looks like the usual "Not In My Backyard" brigade bullied the council into a poor decision. The proposal may not have been the best one possible; however, the rationale for rejecting it is complete rubbish. It's an airfield for heaven's sake not old growth forest! Get some perspective people. I think a nice big wind farm should be next on the agenda; anything really, to lower the house prices of those tired old middle-class whiners. Never have so many been so screwed by so few.

Well done WDC for signing the death warrant for the town of High Wycombe and its future social and economic development.
The stigma of Backwards Bucks still holds true.

An opportunity for a centre of excellance that would provide first class facilities to both support the development of local sporting potential and attract national sporting personalities and teams to the region who would act as an inspiration to our youth.

Now lost are the economic benefits to the region during the planning and the construction of the project which would have led to wealth creation for local tradesmen,suppliers,
retail etc etc and vitally needed local employment opportunities on the completion of the project

WDC - Hang your head in shame

What other town would have missed such a wonderful opportunity for development.

This is one time when I am delighted to be proved wrong.
I was so sure WDC would give in.

Now can we get rid of the threat of HS2?
Perhaps GASP would lend a hand to that.
WELL DONE to GASP and to WDC for doing the right thing.

LMFAOBFEagain & lfc963

Do you really think that the silent minority has been able to turn this around?

It was just a bad plan, badly executed and the majority could see through it.

Now WDC has the chance to do something sensible to benefit the whole community, including WWFC and Wasps.

LMFAOBFEagain wrote:
Looks like the usual "Not In My Backyard" brigade bullied the council into a poor decision. The proposal may not have been the best one possible; however, the rationale for rejecting it is complete rubbish. It's an airfield for heaven's sake not old growth forest! Get some perspective people. I think a nice big wind farm should be next on the agenda; anything really, to lower the house prices of those tired old middle-class whiners. Never have so many been so screwed by so few.

Yes it's an airfield, the only one in the district, irreplaceable, leave it alone.
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But the reasons this project is not going ahead have been set out far too many times already.. and they are nothing to do with house prices.. let's just be grateful to the council for rejecting a mad scheme.
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Well done GASP for a brilliant campaign.

A victory for democracy. Most GASP members down pub doing their best to stimulate the economy!

Shame the GASP members and savelaneend cannot celebrate in The Old Sun Lane End.

lfc963 wrote:
Well done WDC for signing the death warrant for the town of High Wycombe and its future social and economic development.
The stigma of Backwards Bucks still holds true.

An opportunity for a centre of excellance that would provide first class facilities to both support the development of local sporting potential and attract national sporting personalities and teams to the region who would act as an inspiration to our youth.

Now lost are the economic benefits to the region during the planning and the construction of the project which would have led to wealth creation for local tradesmen,suppliers,

retail etc etc and vitally needed local employment opportunities on the completion of the project

WDC - Hang your head in shame

What other town would have missed such a wonderful opportunity for development.

I couldn't agree more. I followed the debate on BFP website and am staggered that most protestors have such limited vision. This vote this evening by only 4 Councillors has consigned Wycombe as a town to a future struggle. We already have high unemployment and killing this sort of project will not bring us the inward investment we so desperately need. All the Ninbys who do not live in the Town will be well satisfied. Shame that a balanced view was not put forward by those who represent us. They have no vision for the future - btw, nothing to do with WWFC or WASPs, we need this sort of flagship project to get our local economy going.

sadly, your ideals and aspirations have been shownup for what they are........dreams. the arguements have been gone through till both sides are blue in the face, but the facts remain. hayes wants something for nothing. he wants others to pay and subsidise him. threatens to take away hiS teddy"s, (sorry TEAM!)......... holds local side to ransom, the list goes on and on. THIS COUNCIL HAS SEEN THROUGH THIS SCAM AND HAS DELIVERED ITS VERDICT. take it graciously. s*d off

redspellsdanger wrote:

lfc963 wrote:
Well done WDC for signing the death warrant for the town of High Wycombe and its future social and economic development.
The stigma of Backwards Bucks still holds true.

An opportunity for a centre of excellance that would provide first class facilities to both support the development of local sporting potential and attract national sporting personalities and teams to the region who would act as an inspiration to our youth.

Now lost are the economic benefits to the region during the planning and the construction of the project which would have led to wealth creation for local tradesmen,suppliers,


retail etc etc and vitally needed local employment opportunities on the completion of the project

WDC - Hang your head in shame

What other town would have missed such a wonderful opportunity for development.

I couldn't agree more. I followed the debate on BFP website and am staggered that most protestors have such limited vision. This vote this evening by only 4 Councillors has consigned Wycombe as a town to a future struggle. We already have high unemployment and killing this sort of project will not bring us the inward investment we so desperately need. All the Ninbys who do not live in the Town will be well satisfied. Shame that a balanced view was not put forward by those who represent us. They have no vision for the future - btw, nothing to do with WWFC or WASPs, we need this sort of flagship project to get our local economy going.

What has the town got to do with it?
This was a village and surrounding countryside that was going to be affected.
So perhaps if the town wants it, they put it there instead. ;))

Well done WDC, the rose tinted spectacles have finally been removed and the figures have finally been revealed. £10million deficit? They kept that one quiet!
I am so proud to have been part of helping stop this ludicrous waste of money. Well done to GASP for giving up so much of their time to look into the facts that WDC / WSDL couldn't be bothered to look up themselves.
I am so disappointed we did not attend tonight. We didn't realise it would be such a significant night. I hope a video is released soon.
I also can't believe how some people still think it's a good idea. Perhaps they did not read the business plan? were sucked in by the PR? or perhaps they just don't appreciate how hard it is to keep England green and beautiful.
A great day for those who care :)

blues chick wrote:
This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Completely agree. Steve Hayes please be safe in the knowledge that some local people could see the positive benefits to the area of what you were trying to achieve. GASP were a loud opposition. Just a shame fewer pro-stadium people could not vocalise their support more loudly. Nasty forum comments from GASP sometimes. Very disappointed.

redspellsdanger wrote:

lfc963 wrote:
Well done WDC for signing the death warrant for the town of High Wycombe and its future social and economic development.
The stigma of Backwards Bucks still holds true.

An opportunity for a centre of excellance that would provide first class facilities to both support the development of local sporting potential and attract national sporting personalities and teams to the region who would act as an inspiration to our youth.

Now lost are the economic benefits to the region during the planning and the construction of the project which would have led to wealth creation for local tradesmen,suppliers,


retail etc etc and vitally needed local employment opportunities on the completion of the project

WDC - Hang your head in shame

What other town would have missed such a wonderful opportunity for development.

I couldn't agree more. I followed the debate on BFP website and am staggered that most protestors have such limited vision. This vote this evening by only 4 Councillors has consigned Wycombe as a town to a future struggle. We already have high unemployment and killing this sort of project will not bring us the inward investment we so desperately need. All the Ninbys who do not live in the Town will be well satisfied. Shame that a balanced view was not put forward by those who represent us. They have no vision for the future - btw, nothing to do with WWFC or WASPs, we need this sort of flagship project to get our local economy going.

I cant remember the local economy having a massive upsurge the last time WWFC moved to a new ground!

making new office units etc iss all well and good if you can fill them, there are offices and industrial units all over wycombe and Marlow that are epmty and have been so for a long time, making a new industrial / office area will not make new companies move in, it will just move them from where they are now, so the number of people employed will stay the same, it will not rise.

and would you seriously want to live in one of the new houses? your weekends will be hell, you will not be able to park outside your own houses as the designer of the plans did not put no where near enough parking for a matchday.

a good decision by WDC, let WWFC / Wasps / Steve Hayes sort out a new access road for the ground now, then he can build his new stand(s) and up the capatcity to 17,500 he says he requires and everyone will be happy.

all except the WWFC / Wasps fans that the previous WDC councillers found.

incidentally, you cant really call it limited vision. those of us who"ve seen through the smoke screen have a far greater view of the overall picture than yourselves.

Hopefully GASP will stop patronising and bullying any pro-stadium supportersnow they have 'won'. Very hollow victory in my mind. Death knell for the local area. Thanks guys! (P.S. If any pro-GASP members retort in an aggressive way - please note "I don't care!")

Why did Clive Harris not declare his interest as a member of the Ex Wasps Players Club, and especially considering the links on his company website to Wasps. Also why did he remain in the Council chamber?

Marlow_AP wrote:

blues chick wrote:
This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Completely agree. Steve Hayes please be safe in the knowledge that some local people could see the positive benefits to the area of what you were trying to achieve. GASP were a loud opposition. Just a shame fewer pro-stadium people could not vocalise their support more loudly. Nasty forum comments from GASP sometimes. Very disappointed.

I don't think the nasty comments are from GASP representatives in the main.I also don't think there were many Pro stadium people around to voice any support to your cause - GASP won, because the business plan was faulty, because WDC saw through it and because the no supporters cared more for their cause than the yes supporters

Lane End Man wrote:

redspellsdanger wrote:

lfc963 wrote:
Well done WDC for signing the death warrant for the town of High Wycombe and its future social and economic development.
The stigma of Backwards Bucks still holds true.

An opportunity for a centre of excellance that would provide first class facilities to both support the development of local sporting potential and attract national sporting personalities and teams to the region who would act as an inspiration to our youth.

Now lost are the economic benefits to the region during the planning and the construction of the project which would have led to wealth creation for local tradesmen,suppliers,



retail etc etc and vitally needed local employment opportunities on the completion of the project

WDC - Hang your head in shame

What other town would have missed such a wonderful opportunity for development.

I couldn't agree more. I followed the debate on BFP website and am staggered that most protestors have such limited vision. This vote this evening by only 4 Councillors has consigned Wycombe as a town to a future struggle. We already have high unemployment and killing this sort of project will not bring us the inward investment we so desperately need. All the Ninbys who do not live in the Town will be well satisfied. Shame that a balanced view was not put forward by those who represent us. They have no vision for the future - btw, nothing to do with WWFC or WASPs, we need this sort of flagship project to get our local economy going.

I cant remember the local economy having a massive upsurge the last time WWFC moved to a new ground!

making new office units etc iss all well and good if you can fill them, there are offices and industrial units all over wycombe and Marlow that are epmty and have been so for a long time, making a new industrial / office area will not make new companies move in, it will just move them from where they are now, so the number of people employed will stay the same, it will not rise.

and would you seriously want to live in one of the new houses? your weekends will be hell, you will not be able to park outside your own houses as the designer of the plans did not put no where near enough parking for a matchday.

a good decision by WDC, let WWFC / Wasps / Steve Hayes sort out a new access road for the ground now, then he can build his new stand(s) and up the capatcity to 17,500 he says he requires and everyone will be happy.

all except the WWFC / Wasps fans that the previous WDC councillers found.

Would Mr Nimby man please tell me how Lane End would be affected by these proposals? Would some of the local businesses not have benifitted?

blues chick wrote:
Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

By the way when wwfc were a conference side they used to get in excess of 6000 supporters on a regular basis and often a lot more !! Now they struggle to get 4700 for a top of the table clash ! Why do you think this is, im afraid mr beeks has sold out to a bully who has sh*t on people for far too long. As has been mentioned wwfc survived for a very long time befors SH and will survive long after him. He has driven the club into massive debts, then held everyone associated with the club to ransom to get sole ownership !! Nice man, its what divs like him do best, after all he is just a glorified loan shark ! R.I.P Mr Hayes........

BOOKERite wrote:
Why did Clive Harris not declare his interest as a member of the Ex Wasps Players Club, and especially considering the links on his company website to Wasps. Also why did he remain in the Council chamber?

Why should Cllr Harriss declare his alledged interest when I understand he did not speak or vote? Why did Cllr Collingwood speak and vote when he has clearly been against the project from the beginning?

bayriver wrote:

blues chick wrote: Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

By the way when wwfc were a conference side they used to get in excess of 6000 supporters on a regular basis and often a lot more !! Now they struggle to get 4700 for a top of the table clash ! Why do you think this is, im afraid mr beeks has sold out to a bully who has sh*t on people for far too long. As has been mentioned wwfc survived for a very long time befors SH and will survive long after him. He has driven the club into massive debts, then held everyone associated with the club to ransom to get sole ownership !! Nice man, its what divs like him do best, after all he is just a glorified loan shark ! R.I.P Mr Hayes........

Bayriver,

"By the way when wwfc were a conference side they used to get in excess of 6000 supporters on a regular basis and often a lot more !! "

Take your rose tinted specs off ! WWFC used to get 2500-3000 in the conference, which was usually the top attendance for any Conference match, I remember the next highest attendance was something like 600.

However, they did run at a small profit.

When WWFC entered the football league they were the only league club without any debt,and making a small profit.

The ground share with Wasps was to cover the modest losses being accrued by 2002.

But then Hayes got his hands on things and now WWFC make losses of 1.5million/year, even with rental from Wasps.

Clubs like Exeter and Yeovil play in league 1 with smaller crowds than Wycombe and still manage to make a small profit.

Gasp did not win, WSDL lost because they did not produce an adequate business plan, did not prove the exceptional case for building in the green belt, and could not show where the extra fans, or revenue would come from.

This is not the end of the world, let's now see what the community needs.

Marlow_AP wrote:

blues chick wrote: This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Completely agree. Steve Hayes please be safe in the knowledge that some local people could see the positive benefits to the area of what you were trying to achieve. GASP were a loud opposition. Just a shame fewer pro-stadium people could not vocalise their support more loudly. Nasty forum comments from GASP sometimes. Very disappointed.

Quite a few people could see what he was trying to achieve. and by and large very laudable it was too.
However, if it fails to overcome the green belt policy that is not the opponents fault, is it? If it does not stack up financially that is not the opponents fault either, is it? If its location displaces other sports, that is not the opponents fault either is it?
So don't assume all of the opponents are Luddites. They may have wanted to see a scheme that was viable, adhered to government policy, and was in a suitable location.
This simply was not it, and it was rightly quashed. If Mr Hayes is so altruistic, he'll go back to the drawing board and come up with a more viable plan. If he does so, then people will rightly support him.

redspellsdanger wrote:

BOOKERite wrote:
Why did Clive Harris not declare his interest as a member of the Ex Wasps Players Club, and especially considering the links on his company website to Wasps. Also why did he remain in the Council chamber?

Why should Cllr Harriss declare his alledged interest when I understand he did not speak or vote? Why did Cllr Collingwood speak and vote when he has clearly been against the project from the beginning?

Wasn't Lesley Clarke, who spoke and voted in previous Cabinet decisions, at a press conference with Mr Hayes declaring what a fantastic opportunity a sports stadium would be for Wycombe, why is that NOT considered predetermination yet an cabinet member who diligiously sought the opinon of those she represented deemed to be bias? Odd that the monitoring Officer of WDC didn't pick up on this then.
!
For the record, I thought it very sad indeed, that under the cabinet system that members were restricted from speaking openly. As I see it there was no predetermination in that Chamber tonight, no closed minds, the business case spoke for itself; it was a fundamental flaw. Clearly, the monitoring officer took a very cautious view and that there was what appeared to be some members abstaining by citing declarations of interest when they didn't need to (whether for or against). There is copious case law associated with predetermination and predisposition and the test for bias, simplistically put, is that the average man with no interest either way detects bias.
!
Whatever the result, the majority of those present (and i'm surprised by the result), managed to see through a very weak business case.
!
What has been left, is an amended version of the original proposal, that with the option to replace handy X, leaves the door open to ALL of the groups concerned; the Cabinet have signalled COMMUNITY involvement which involves Business, clubs, Badmington, cricket,local clubs etc etc etc. We can ALL play a part in determining our future, we have a cabinet "that gets it", we can ALL have a stake in our future irrespective of the amount of cash in our pockets or interests.

Gerry47 wrote:

bayriver wrote:

blues chick wrote: Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

By the way when wwfc were a conference side they used to get in excess of 6000 supporters on a regular basis and often a lot more !! Now they struggle to get 4700 for a top of the table clash ! Why do you think this is, im afraid mr beeks has sold out to a bully who has sh*t on people for far too long. As has been mentioned wwfc survived for a very long time befors SH and will survive long after him. He has driven the club into massive debts, then held everyone associated with the club to ransom to get sole ownership !! Nice man, its what divs like him do best, after all he is just a glorified loan shark ! R.I.P Mr Hayes........

Bayriver, "By the way when wwfc were a conference side they used to get in excess of 6000 supporters on a regular basis and often a lot more !! " Take your rose tinted specs off ! WWFC used to get 2500-3000 in the conference, which was usually the top attendance for any Conference match, I remember the next highest attendance was something like 600. However, they did run at a small profit. When WWFC entered the football league they were the only league club without any debt,and making a small profit. The ground share with Wasps was to cover the modest losses being accrued by 2002. But then Hayes got his hands on things and now WWFC make losses of 1.5million/year, even with rental from Wasps. Clubs like Exeter and Yeovil play in league 1 with smaller crowds than Wycombe and still manage to make a small profit.

Absolute rubbish have a proper look at the attendences, do your research ! 8 or 9 years ago they needed 4500 fans to break even now they need 5500 still they cannot achieve this ! Im afraid SH has ruined this club and he is in it for one reason HIMSELF. The ground share with Wasps was part of SH masterplan, he came in, he got rid of the old wycombe ( mr beeks ) included and has tried to bully and bullsh*t everyone who dared try to stand in his way. It was either his way or the highway, well the sooner he gets back on the m40 and leaves, the better for all true genuine wwfc supporters.

My husband loves rugby. I enjoy rugby. BUT it doesn't mean that I want 2 (TWO) loss making rugby teams taking over a peaceful airfield in order to build a stadium (that history shows wouldn't be filled to capacity) over 500 house (which would mean double(ish) the cars), a hotel, sports facilities, conference facilities etc etc.

Adams park is perfectly adequate to re-build the rugby stadium, should need be. Entrances and exits could easily be re-worked.

Us locals have every right to protect Greenbelt land (which, by the way, is supposed to stop towns and villages from merging together - it even states that on WDC's website). We do not deserve to be slagged off for protecting our land, our infrastructure, our housing prices, our peace or anything else.

GASP has done us proud. And just because we want peace, countryside, harmony and no job cuts at the existing airfield does not mean that we are not happy to move forward with times.

Go GASP! and congratulations to everyone who has fought this.

Why can't Mr Hayes go it alone now?
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All that has happened is that the council has said it will not commit any more taxpayers' funds towards this idea.
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Hayes can seek finance elsewhere from more astute business people and go it alone, can't he?
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Won't he?

Voyeur: The council will want to sell him the Booker land. Hopefully this result will stop them. But who knows! Plus ... Hayes has two loss making clubs. Not sure anyone would finance that???

Monte Cristo wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

blues chick wrote: This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Completely agree. Steve Hayes please be safe in the knowledge that some local people could see the positive benefits to the area of what you were trying to achieve. GASP were a loud opposition. Just a shame fewer pro-stadium people could not vocalise their support more loudly. Nasty forum comments from GASP sometimes. Very disappointed.

Quite a few people could see what he was trying to achieve. and by and large very laudable it was too.
However, if it fails to overcome the green belt policy that is not the opponents fault, is it? If it does not stack up financially that is not the opponents fault either, is it? If its location displaces other sports, that is not the opponents fault either is it?
So don't assume all of the opponents are Luddites. They may have wanted to see a scheme that was viable, adhered to government policy, and was in a suitable location.
This simply was not it, and it was rightly quashed. If Mr Hayes is so altruistic, he'll go back to the drawing board and come up with a more viable plan. If he does so, then people will rightly support him.

@Marlow_AP I think you should listen to Monte Cristo

well i hope your all happy about that being scrapped! now you can find something else to moan about now

Oh Dave100487 ... How completely niaive you must be!

Naive ... Even!

Monte Cristo wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

blues chick wrote: This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Completely agree. Steve Hayes please be safe in the knowledge that some local people could see the positive benefits to the area of what you were trying to achieve. GASP were a loud opposition. Just a shame fewer pro-stadium people could not vocalise their support more loudly. Nasty forum comments from GASP sometimes. Very disappointed.

Quite a few people could see what he was trying to achieve. and by and large very laudable it was too.
However, if it fails to overcome the green belt policy that is not the opponents fault, is it? If it does not stack up financially that is not the opponents fault either, is it? If its location displaces other sports, that is not the opponents fault either is it?
So don't assume all of the opponents are Luddites. They may have wanted to see a scheme that was viable, adhered to government policy, and was in a suitable location.
This simply was not it, and it was rightly quashed. If Mr Hayes is so altruistic, he'll go back to the drawing board and come up with a more viable plan. If he does so, then people will rightly support him.

Why do people constantly use the term 'Luddites' in a pejorative way.
.
If English history was properly taught , people might realize that the Luddites were honorable working people who were driven to desperate measures through exploitation , real starvation , persecution and loss of employment. That was in this country - England , not all that long ago.
.
As usual the rich and powerful get to write history and create their own distorted false version - which ordinary folk are then told to accept as the 'truth'. Life is not that simple but the rich and powerful would have you believe it (and you) to be so.
.
English people are encourage nowadays to forget their history , heritage and how we arrived where we are today. The days of the Luddites never went away. But politicians , manipulators like Hayes and their supporters would have you believe they never happened.

Monte Cristo wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

blues chick wrote: This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Completely agree. Steve Hayes please be safe in the knowledge that some local people could see the positive benefits to the area of what you were trying to achieve. GASP were a loud opposition. Just a shame fewer pro-stadium people could not vocalise their support more loudly. Nasty forum comments from GASP sometimes. Very disappointed.

Quite a few people could see what he was trying to achieve. and by and large very laudable it was too. However, if it fails to overcome the green belt policy that is not the opponents fault, is it? If it does not stack up financially that is not the opponents fault either, is it? If its location displaces other sports, that is not the opponents fault either is it? So don't assume all of the opponents are Luddites. They may have wanted to see a scheme that was viable, adhered to government policy, and was in a suitable location. This simply was not it, and it was rightly quashed. If Mr Hayes is so altruistic, he'll go back to the drawing board and come up with a more viable plan. If he does so, then people will rightly support him.

I hope you're right. That with a different plan more people would get behind him. Sadly I can't see it happening

Maybe now the Airport will pay the going rent for the space they have enjoyed on the cheap all those years. Years when council tax payers have and still are paying over the top because of Wycombe District Councils errors of allowing them DECADES on an excessively low rent.
Heathrow Airport will have the biggest smile in the morning, they know the Airport will not be in a position to pay the rent the site should demand.
When Booker Airport closes their airspace will be used by Heathrow, NO marches will stop that.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

M40 wrote:
Maybe now the Airport will pay the going rent for the space they have enjoyed on the cheap all those years. Years when council tax payers have and still are paying over the top because of Wycombe District Councils errors of allowing them DECADES on an excessively low rent.
Heathrow Airport will have the biggest smile in the morning, they know the Airport will not be in a position to pay the rent the site should demand.
When Booker Airport closes their airspace will be used by Heathrow, NO marches will stop that.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

Are you on about the section 5 application that WILL go nowhere because of the lack of consultation prior to WDC support:
!
1) Guess you don't understand lease v rent v policy
!
2) Guess you don't understand perverting the course of justice!!!!!!!
!
3)I will be personally be underwriting and supporting a Judicial Review with respect to lack of Consultation in support of a section 5 application should the Secretary of State for Transport grant such an order. A man of straw has more power than any of you rich folk that choose to move to then live next to an active airfield
!
!
seem-lose.

lesley clarke please comment!

Well done WDC and GASP footsoldiers.

~

It's sad but not surprising to see the vitriolic comments of the proponents of the scam (scheme?) since true sports people know how to lose graciously. This was little or nothing to do with sport.

~

A little magnanimity from the winning side would be also appropriate. e.g. shut up Ivor unless you have something constructive to say.

~

It was also comforting to see the referees had consulted the rule book before last night's decision, unlike the previous cabinet.

~

Can the planning department now get back to their duties and try to save High Wycombe from further depredation?

The decision has been made so it's now time to move forward and decide what is best.
I'll declare myself a massive rugby fan and therefore my principal interest is in Wasps, although of course I take a listening watch on the activities of WWFC and wish them luck next season.
In terms of Premier Rugby Union grounds, Adams Park is simply not big enough nor have the facilities. Wasps has the lowest Premiership game fanbase by virtue of having the lowest ground capacity and clearly this affects their profit. We cannot compete with the likes of Leicester, Saracens and Newcastle and it is no wonder that we have struggled in the past few seasons.
So, at present, the clear answer is to upgrade Adams Park. Those of you who know Bath will be aware of their ground location and that finally the local council have approved significant ground upgrades in this beautiful city.. Bath RFC is smack bang in the centre of the City of Bath and their council have recognised the urgent need for a larger ground capacity in order that this famous team can compete at the top table. It has also recognised that Bath RFC is an integral part of the city itself. It is now time for Mr Hayes, the council, etc, to go full-on for a significant Adams Park upgrade.

The decision has been made so it's now time to move forward and decide what is best.
I'll declare myself a massive rugby fan and therefore my principal interest is in Wasps, although of course I take a listening watch on the activities of WWFC and wish them luck next season.
In terms of Premier Rugby Union grounds, Adams Park is simply not big enough nor have the facilities. Wasps has the lowest Premiership game fanbase by virtue of having the lowest ground capacity and clearly this affects their profit. We cannot compete with the likes of Leicester, Saracens and Newcastle and it is no wonder that we have struggled in the past few seasons.
So, at present, the clear answer is to upgrade Adams Park. Those of you who know Bath will be aware of their ground location and that finally the local council have approved significant ground upgrades in this beautiful city.. Bath RFC is smack bang in the centre of the City of Bath and their council have recognised the urgent need for a larger ground capacity in order that this famous team can compete at the top table. It has also recognised that Bath RFC is an integral part of the city itself. It is now time for Mr Hayes, the council, etc, to go full-on for a significant Adams Park upgrade.

Funny how all the pro stadium supporters come out of the woodwork now it has been binned.

Many peoples views would be considerably different if it was proposed to be built on their doorstep.
The current site is out of the way as it should be, improve the access and parking there and all is well.

Plus football is for pansies.

Hussar!

zwizz wrote:
Well done, a victory for common sense and democracy for once! Well done to GASP for all their organising efforts. And also victory for those wanting a better Handy Cross Sports Complex; you may yet get one. Let's hope that a decent long-term future for recreational flying at Booker can now be assured, for as far into the future as it's already been there, and that's over seventy years. And well done to BFP for the "live" feed tonight, very helpful in the overflow room.

Who cares about recreational flying apart from a couple of rich blokes. This is a bad decision made by a sport hating town. For sport hating replace with obese/exercise dodgers....

In the BFP 'live' coverage you say: '7.04 And a number of bomb-shells to drop on our readers before the meeting has got underway proper, the following members have said they will not take part in the stadium debate: Cllrs Teesdale, Barnes, Carroll, Turner, Gaffney, McEnnis and Richards!' Then
Councillors Richards, Teesdale, McEnnis and Pearce are all recorded speaking in the debate – what am I misunderstanding or did you mean they were unable to VOTE in the debate?

It can only be a victory for commonsense.

It can only be a victory for commonsense.

blues chick wrote:
Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

Well said Blues Chick. Some of us have to work but the likes of Ivor et al just meander round town moaning. At least when they have got their way and WWFC are gone they can return to buying Chelsea tickets and merchandise without any guilt...

It’s been a good week for democracy – a doubtfully honest businessman called Murdoch is stopped in his tracks from working against the interests of ordinary people at the national level and another businessman is stopped at the local level.

pault34 wrote:

blues chick wrote:
Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

Well said Blues Chick. Some of us have to work but the likes of Ivor et al just meander round town moaning. At least when they have got their way and WWFC are gone they can return to buying Chelsea tickets and merchandise without any guilt...

If they are doomed to disappear then they would have disappeared anyway – if they can’t fill Adams Park then they would not have been able to fill the ‘Community Stadium’ with its 506 ‘enabling homes’ on Green Belt land at Booker. You can argue about facts but you can’t change them.

Anyway no need to post about this rubbish any more!

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
Anyway no need to post about this rubbish any more!

Quite agree. Truth be told I am quite apathetic about the whole thing and just like a good wind up. Just excited about the new (and possibly last) football season!!!

Pault34
Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting.
Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport?
And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

pault34 wrote:

zwizz wrote: Well done, a victory for common sense and democracy for once! Well done to GASP for all their organising efforts. And also victory for those wanting a better Handy Cross Sports Complex; you may yet get one. Let's hope that a decent long-term future for recreational flying at Booker can now be assured, for as far into the future as it's already been there, and that's over seventy years. And well done to BFP for the "live" feed tonight, very helpful in the overflow room.

Who cares about recreational flying apart from a couple of rich blokes. This is a bad decision made by a sport hating town. For sport hating replace with obese/exercise dodgers....

A perfect case of needing to engage brain before tapping computer keys; if this town hates sport, nobody would have used the "sports village" anyway, which makes it even more of a white elephant.
I suppose that someone as vitriolic as you will totally ignore this, but a lot of flying at Booker is done by professional pilots, who have to accrue a certain number of hours, in order to qualify to take ordinary holidaymakers abroad.
I laughed at M40's assertion that now Booker will close, and Heathrow will be laughing; Booker would have closed, anyway, since the CAA would never have allowed flying to continue, so the prospect of the referees' whistles being continually drowned out by 747s and A380s was always there.
Maybe the new order, in the council, will realise that getting some rent is better than getting none at all, and stop the swingeing increases, which were solely designed to drive the aircraft out, thereby getting a perfect reason for closing the airfield.

zwizz wrote:
Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see
ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

blues chick wrote:
This is a sad day for wwfc and there true fans. I have to say what a few old biggots can do and what a terrible shame for all the up and coming young people in this town as sadly there is not much for them to do and it looks like there never will be now. As for Steve Hayes thank you for trying but you just cant help some people. All the talk re green belt take a good look at the areas around and about Wycombe and you will find a lot of green belt is already built on shame on all of you when WWFC is no more I do hope you will all be satisfied and I and lots of other fans will not be thanking you.

Blues Chick,

I do feel for you the obviously sincere fan of WWFC.

I am a rugby man and was very pleased when Wasps came to town, however, I live very near to the airpark and was very concerned at the effect of the stadium to my local area. If it was just to be a stadium with adequate road/services infrastructure I would not have worried.

It was never just going to be that and with brownfield sites as viable options with a link road to the existing stadium.

Well done to GASP and I will keep the banner up a wee bit longer!!

I've just done a little on-line research:

Cost of one-to-one tuition: (and since gliding by the very nature of the sport is on a one-to-one basis, this has to be compared to one-to-one tuition costs)

French: £25 per hour (local tutor)
Tennis: £50 per hour (Tennis Angels)
Gliding: £40.00 – taken from Booker 5 day course cost –and is based on 14 flights plus one hour in the motor glider + ground school, text book. Also Includes 3 months club membership. So you can continue flying at club member's rates after your course.

If you go for the Get to Solo course - cost of £1995.00 this includes 12 months club membership and assumes 56 glider flights plus motor glider flights. So equates to around £35.62 per flight.

Sorry but it doesn’t seem to me that gliding is in a different league to a lot of other tuition in the area. And I understand there’s also a cadet scheme for youngsters - so different rates apply - and get a good lot of exercise on the airfield helping with the operation of the gliding club!

OK the current stadium plan is now finished with, and the Council has voted to spend £500k on feasibility of replacement Sports Centre.
.
In fact WDC should now be considering Sport as a whole throughout the District.
.
The whole context of what is required at a Sports Centre should also be examined. In my view it should be to supply those facilities that would otherwise be unavailable/unafford
able for normal clubs.
.
A prime example is the Swimming Pool. The existing pool is of correct competition length, but is too narrow. Building a new 8 lane 50M pool should be a priority. It will still be useable by the recreational swimmer, but will also allow the Swimming Clubs to have a superb training pool that can also be used for competition.
.
Similarly the running track should be investigated again. Handy Cross is not the ideal place, as it is too windy to allow it to be used for competition. The residents of Hazlemere didn't want it relocated near them, and I would think the same would hold true in any other part of the District. How about relocating that element, alone, to the Air Park?
.
I think the Council should look at providing the minimum facilities at Handy Cross, and using the money saved to spread facilities to those amateur Clubs that can deliver Sports to the people it knows - The Big Society in action. In my example above, it must be cheaper to erect an industrial unit, which is available off-the-shelf and relatively cheap, than to build a specialist unit as part of the new sports centre. This concept works in other countries (Australia, for example, where when an amateur Club can show it minimum commitment and growth, the local council will supply suitable facilities at low rent, provided the Club can supply economic coaching to the general community, and not just at elite level).
.
As I wander through Hughenden, for example, I see many boys wearing Hughenden Valley Football Club tracksuits, and I see many girls wearing Abbey Gym Club tracksuits. These are both amateur community sports clubs that do an excellent job for their communities. These are examples. There are many others throughout the District who also do an excellent job, but are unable to afford the necessary cost of building/refurbishin
g facilities. In fact the Clubs I mentioned represent different ends of the requirement spectrum. Football clubs need a large green area, reasonably flattish, and somewhere for changing. A Gym Club needs a barn-type building.
.
There are many sustainable ways of doing this. Recycling of exiting industrial units saves a fortune in cost, and is much greener than a new build. Recycled shipping containers are being used for all sorts of purposes. I have recently seen a school in South London which has a superb Sports Hall built, primarily from these as has a local football club in the north of England who have had changing facilities and club house built out of the them. In both cases you would be hard pushed to know the building's origins. Many sports halls are now being built with tensile membrane coverings that reduce cost considerably, and have a 25+ year lifespan.
.
Come on WDC - look to improving participation sport - both recreational and elite, and (to use a phrase I hate), it's time to think outside the box.

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote: Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

Since when were 3,000 football supporters and 7,000 rugby supporters (most of whom come from out of town) the majority? You obviously feel passionate about your pastime but need to understand that most other people don't.

BTW if the stadium had been proposed at a different (non-greenbelt) site, had not impacted adversely on the airfield, had been funded entirely by the clubs rather than using £31m of taxpayers assets and not saddled the people of Wycombe to ongoing debt due to a full-of-holes business case I wouldn't object.

Just returned from Marlow and there is dancing in the streets.

Well done to Cllr Collingwood and to GASP.

What a fantastic result. A real smack in the eye for Cllr Clarke.

Wonderful, wonderful.

oh well, now there will be less money spent in the local economy! there go my hopes of seeing Quo at the new stadium! lol!

Thanks tansyw for clearing up some of the myths surrounding gliding costs. You didn't, of course, mention golf in your reply. I think many golf players spend considerably more on their sport than do most glider pilots.
Phredd,whilst it might be possible to locate a running track at WAP, isn't it just as exposed to the wind as Handy Cross, and the extremities of the airfield are by no means level?

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote:
Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see

ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

You appear to be a disappointed (bitter ?) stadium supporter but please - do a little bit of research before blogging 'facts'. Thank you

About how many people do partake in gliding or flying at Booker weekly?
If it is in the hundreds or thousands then I suggest it is perfectly affordable for many people, clearly some can't but that is the nature of the world. Just because not everyone can afford to do it does not mean it should go.
.
Most football and rugby fans are not overweight, the outdated view that the ability to watch sport means one does not partake in it has been disproved since the initial worries in the 1960s.
.
Is sport provision actually that bad anyway? What facilities do you need for most? Grass is normally suitable! Its only racket sports or swimming that your need specialist facilities. I know us Brits like to moan about everything, but I don't think the status quo right now is too bad at all.

NicM wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote: Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

Since when were 3,000 football supporters and 7,000 rugby supporters (most of whom come from out of town) the majority? You obviously feel passionate about your pastime but need to understand that most other people don't. BTW if the stadium had been proposed at a different (non-greenbelt) site, had not impacted adversely on the airfield, had been funded entirely by the clubs rather than using £31m of taxpayers assets and not saddled the people of Wycombe to ongoing debt due to a full-of-holes business case I wouldn't object.

well said

I agree!

@Phredd
...
You mentioned about a athletics track at Booker,...sorry but that is high up and windy too, however I have an alternative.
...
How about Abbey Barn near to the ski centre. It could also be used by St. Bernards, Wycombe High, Abbey School and JHGS; as well as for other Athletic events?
...
It is over the ridgeline and sheltered by trees, perhaps large enough for that venue and it could share the parking with the Ski centre, even if it doesn't re-open.
...
Also it would or might help residence of Dawes Hill by allocating an area to recreation and not just housing/brown field development from eth old USAF base due to be sold.

TheHorsesMouth
.
Happy to take that on board. Never been to the airfield, other than the Squash Club once, so will concede on that point.
.
I am happy to agree with your Abbey Barn suggestion.

tansyw wrote:
I've just done a little on-line research:

Cost of one-to-one tuition: (and since gliding by the very nature of the sport is on a one-to-one basis, this has to be compared to one-to-one tuition costs)

French: £25 per hour (local tutor)
Tennis: £50 per hour (Tennis Angels)
Gliding: £40.00 – taken from Booker 5 day course cost –and is based on 14 flights plus one hour in the motor glider + ground school, text book. Also Includes 3 months club membership. So you can continue flying at club member's rates after your course.

If you go for the Get to Solo course - cost of £1995.00 this includes 12 months club membership and assumes 56 glider flights plus motor glider flights. So equates to around £35.62 per flight.

Sorry but it doesn’t seem to me that gliding is in a different league to a lot of other tuition in the area. And I understand there’s also a cadet scheme for youngsters - so different rates apply - and get a good lot of exercise on the airfield helping with the operation of the gliding club!

Further to Tansy's research.

Golf - how many people play that? Certainly most of my friends do. One does not consider that an elitist sport. I just checked the green prices – this is WITHOUT tuition. A weekend round of 18 holes at Flackwell Heath is £50. OK members fees are cheaper but membership is HARDLY cheap.

Power flying is not that expensive when you consider flying to the Isle of White for instance with 4 on board – works out about the same as a car/ferry and you get there is a fraction of the time.

Check out the cost of a single Wasps match game – that is hardly cheap!

Case rested

I agree too and Phredd you make some excellent points. I think that the District as a whole can have a stake and that Wycombe District and the County, have much to look forward too.

Commonsense suggests that, last night, it must have been in the minds of the four councillors who rejected the planned stadium that if they had accepted it instead and it had promptly gone bust after the 506 ‘enabling homes’ had been finished, then they would have been widely despised as ‘Hayes’s harlots’ and had to leave the area

Some of the pro-stadium comments on here are slightly bizarre. So Wycombe will wither and die because this does not go ahead and the football fans who have opposed this plan are sport-haters? Both are quite ridiculous. This plan had nothing to do with improving anything for wycombites and everything to do with making money for vested interests. London Wasps are...well London Wasps...if Adams Park ain't big enough, get SH to build you a nice stadium in...er...London. He could have formulated a plan with the council to improve access and facilities at AP...but there's no opportunity for massive profits in property development there is there? This was a white elephant and most people recognised it as such.

Now that we have got the EASY stuff out of the way, could WDC councillors now address the intent of BCC to site a waste transfer station at Booker, while any number of empty unused "barn" factories with better communications (accepting that there is no such a thing as a "better road" in Bucks), not illogically and unergonomically situated on the top of a hill at the wrong end of the county, already blighted by a smelly obscenely uneconomical, composting facility (currently not available to locals through bad planning by WDC and BCC), are currently accessible.
~
The concept, "Because we (BCC) own it" should not be allowed to be the answer. Altering the appearance of the Chilterns AONB by building hideous visual interference (another massive barn) has already twice been rejected on appeal by the planning inspectorate. The concept that the mud hut dwellers of High Wycombe "might not notice" has been quashed. Booker refuses to be a public convenience any longer .
~
If one would like to address the connivance of BCC in the current nonsense, you may ask whether an additional sewer was absolutely necessary from High Heavens through Marlow Bottom to Little Marlow STW works (where Thames Water were already operating a similar composting facility), and a waste water sewage treatment plant was suddenly found necessary at High Heavens because "someone hadn't expected" that it would be needed. Might not this have been essential if the "Stadium Project" had gone ahead?
~
Has the first domino fallen? Just who the h*** is running the county? The truth will eventually have to be told. Were WDC waiting for "X", while BCC were waiting for "Y"? Could we have had joined up working? No, that would have meant a Unitary Council wouldn't it, with an appropriate reduction in senior "expert" executives?
~
The community, through elected councillors, must be in control, not the officers.

Excellent News!

- Now we just need to stop the HS2 - and normality and peace will be restored to the shires!

When can we expect our money back from the Icelandic banks?

I'm another one sorry to see the stadium is not to be built at Booker but accept those against it won the argument re the concerns over cost, green belt etc and therefore the resulting decision.
My concern has always been that Wasps might leave Wycombe and think that would be a terrible shame for the town. I hope that the improvements to the current stadium can be made as many of you claim, but I have severe doubts. I'm sure it was said (pre-Steve Heyes) that there wasn't sufficient room to expand the stadium, the resultant parking, or that the proposed additional roads would not meet police and fire brigades requirements. I believe the exit roads would only be used on match days and for exit ONLY. I might be wrong on the space argument or the exit road argument - these are only dimly remembered things I have heard or read several years in the past, so don't jump down my throat and call me names if I am wrong!

I'm another one sorry to see the stadium is not to be built at Booker but accept those against it won the argument re the concerns over cost, green belt etc and therefore the resulting decision.
My concern has always been that Wasps might leave Wycombe and think that would be a terrible shame for the town. I hope that the improvements to the current stadium can be made as many of you claim, but I have severe doubts. I'm sure it was said (pre-Steve Heyes) that there wasn't sufficient room to expand the stadium, the resultant parking, or that the proposed additional roads would not meet police and fire brigades requirements. I believe the exit roads would only be used on match days and for exit ONLY. I might be wrong on the space argument or the exit road argument - these are only dimly remembered things I have heard or read several years in the past, so don't jump down my throat and call me names if I am wrong!

Wendoverman wrote:
Some of the pro-stadium comments on here are slightly bizarre. So Wycombe will wither and die because this does not go ahead and the football fans who have opposed this plan are sport-haters? Both are quite ridiculous. This plan had nothing to do with improving anything for wycombites and everything to do with making money for vested interests. London Wasps are...well London Wasps...if Adams Park ain't big enough, get SH to build you a nice stadium in...er...London. He could have formulated a plan with the council to improve access and facilities at AP...but there's no opportunity for massive profits in property development there is there? This was a white elephant and most people recognised it as such.

I agree with what you say and would add extremely well expressed in a writing style that reminds me of myself - you are trying to recognisably put your own speech patterns into a written form.

J B Blackett wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote: Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

You appear to be a disappointed (bitter ?) stadium supporter but please - do a little bit of research before blogging 'facts'. Thank you

Gliding is an elitist sport, if indeed it is a sport. Pretty sure no one at my school had the money for a career in aviation. Like I said, the haves and haves not...Also, bit presumptious to assume football fans are all over weight....I think your fattist

Edgar Brooks wrote:

pault34 wrote:

zwizz wrote: Well done, a victory for common sense and democracy for once! Well done to GASP for all their organising efforts. And also victory for those wanting a better Handy Cross Sports Complex; you may yet get one. Let's hope that a decent long-term future for recreational flying at Booker can now be assured, for as far into the future as it's already been there, and that's over seventy years. And well done to BFP for the "live" feed tonight, very helpful in the overflow room.

Who cares about recreational flying apart from a couple of rich blokes. This is a bad decision made by a sport hating town. For sport hating replace with obese/exercise dodgers....

A perfect case of needing to engage brain before tapping computer keys; if this town hates sport, nobody would have used the "sports village" anyway, which makes it even more of a white elephant. I suppose that someone as vitriolic as you will totally ignore this, but a lot of flying at Booker is done by professional pilots, who have to accrue a certain number of hours, in order to qualify to take ordinary holidaymakers abroad. I laughed at M40's assertion that now Booker will close, and Heathrow will be laughing; Booker would have closed, anyway, since the CAA would never have allowed flying to continue, so the prospect of the referees' whistles being continually drowned out by 747s and A380s was always there. Maybe the new order, in the council, will realise that getting some rent is better than getting none at all, and stop the swingeing increases, which were solely designed to drive the aircraft out, thereby getting a perfect reason for closing the airfield.

Wow, you really bit didnt you.
But seriously, is this all about plane lovers now? And as for pilots training so they can take 'ordinary' holidaymakers abroad....are they still required? Most people, myself included, have been forced to holiday in England now for mainly economic reasons so maybe the air park is now the white elephant perhaps...
What a weird old town I live in. Full of flying Chelsea fans :(

pault34 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote: Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

You appear to be a disappointed (bitter ?) stadium supporter but please - do a little bit of research before blogging 'facts'. Thank you

Gliding is an elitist sport, if indeed it is a sport. Pretty sure no one at my school had the money for a career in aviation. Like I said, the haves and haves not...Also, bit presumptious to assume football fans are all over weight....I think your fattist

Booker Gliding Club is a Community Amateur SPORTS Council accredited club. Please remember that a sport doesn't always involve a ball - e.g. rowing, sailing, athletics.
.
What is it that makes you think that a particular sport is "elitist" and what makes you think that the "haves and have nots" comes into play with how people choose to spend what money they have in taking part in their particular passion?
.
It may indeed be the case that you didn't know anybody at your school who pursued a career in aviation (I bet many of them have been on an aeroplane on holiday though) but you're mixing up work with pleasure. Funnily enough there are glider pilots who fly "for fun" and some of those are also professional pilots who enjoy the freedom and pleasure that gliding brings to their lives.
.
Some professional pilots are bitten by the aviation bug at a young age (Booker's Gliding Club is the first British National Junior Gliding Centre and operates a cadet scheme to encourage young people into the sport). Gliding provides an excellent foundation upon which they can start their career.
.
Please don't knock something simply becasue it's not "your thing".

gpn01 wrote:

pault34 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:

Marlow_AP wrote:

zwizz wrote: Pault34 Didn't last nights meeting also decide to move forward on a replacement for Handy Cross? Doesn't quite fit with "Sports Hating". But if wycombe is truly "Sports Hating" is there any future in promoting loss making activities at a huge cost to local taxpayers; there was shown to be at least a £10million black hole in the capital costs at last nights meeting. Surely the spectators at football matches are more likely to be unfit / overweight than those actually taking part in sport? And the gliding club has produced both world and national champions, including the current top woman glider pilot in the world, as well as starting many teenagers on a career in aviation.

Wish the rest of us could afford the high costs of flying/gliding...see ms it's just the lucky few. Glad the majority of the local sport-loving tax-payers are catered for - not.

You appear to be a disappointed (bitter ?) stadium supporter but please - do a little bit of research before blogging 'facts'. Thank you

Gliding is an elitist sport, if indeed it is a sport. Pretty sure no one at my school had the money for a career in aviation. Like I said, the haves and haves not...Also, bit presumptious to assume football fans are all over weight....I think your fattist

Booker Gliding Club is a Community Amateur SPORTS Council accredited club. Please remember that a sport doesn't always involve a ball - e.g. rowing, sailing, athletics. . What is it that makes you think that a particular sport is "elitist" and what makes you think that the "haves and have nots" comes into play with how people choose to spend what money they have in taking part in their particular passion? . It may indeed be the case that you didn't know anybody at your school who pursued a career in aviation (I bet many of them have been on an aeroplane on holiday though) but you're mixing up work with pleasure. Funnily enough there are glider pilots who fly "for fun" and some of those are also professional pilots who enjoy the freedom and pleasure that gliding brings to their lives. . Some professional pilots are bitten by the aviation bug at a young age (Booker's Gliding Club is the first British National Junior Gliding Centre and operates a cadet scheme to encourage young people into the sport). Gliding provides an excellent foundation upon which they can start their career. . Please don't knock something simply becasue it's not "your thing".

On the contrary, each to their own. I may even give it a try myself as I honestly didnt realise it was amateur and free to partake in. I assumed you had to be a member and pay to go gliding so apologies for my oversight.

"Amateur" means that you don't get paid for doing it. Not that you don't have to pay for doing it.
.
It is however, unlike professional sports, completely free to watch.

gpn01 wrote:
"Amateur" means that you don't get paid for doing it. Not that you don't have to pay for doing it. . It is however, unlike professional sports, completely free to watch.

Ahh, I see. So indeed you do have to pay a fortune to partake then as I initially thought. Very confusing....
Certainly a new stadium would have served a wide demographic of people. The existing installation there just seems to server the lucky few as I initially intimated....
I guess you can watch for free but its hard to work out who wins....

Now that the dust has almost settled, one final question remains. Might it be possible to know who the previous cabinet were, why got it so wrong and why half a million pounds of yes ratepayers' money has gone the same way as the Icelandic "investment"?

pault34 wrote:

gpn01 wrote: "Amateur" means that you don't get paid for doing it. Not that you don't have to pay for doing it. . It is however, unlike professional sports, completely free to watch.

Ahh, I see. So indeed you do have to pay a fortune to partake then as I initially thought. Very confusing.... Certainly a new stadium would have served a wide demographic of people. The existing installation there just seems to server the lucky few as I initially intimated.... I guess you can watch for free but its hard to work out who wins....

Your confusion is because you're applying some form of prejudice without reading what's being written. I made no mention of costs and yet you've chosen to infer that it costs a fortune. To some people the cost of entry to a football match is a fortune, to others owning a football club is not. All a matter of perspective. People choose to use their money as they see fit. Some people spend their money on beer, some people save it so they can spend it on something they enjoy.
.
I guess the 'wide demographic' that a new stadium would serve is pretty much the same as that which the existing stadium serves...so no additional benefit.
.
You're right about working out who's won in a glidng competition. Aerobatic rules work very similarly to ice skating. Racing works much like some sailing competitions. "Grand Prix" style racing is much easier though....it's whoever crosses the line first wins.

gpn01 wrote:
"Amateur" means that you don't get paid for doing it. Not that you don't have to pay for doing it.
.
It is however, unlike professional sports, completely free to watch.

The word 'amateur' derives from the Latin and used to mean that the person really loves doing the activities (art, sport , entertainment etc) they are engage in.
.
It's rather a pity that meaning has been warped to some extent and implies now to 'doing it for free'. Dogs and cats don't have money - they've not even got pockets - but they get by somehow. And they love to do what they do (mostly) - true amateurs

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about amateur verses professional.
.
An amateur sport is one where participants are not paid, but can win prize money.
.
A professional sport is one where the participants are paid, win or lose.
.
You might well have to pay to watch amateur sports, especially if the organisers have to pay venue hire, judges etc.
.
Then there are the differences between different types of Clubs.
.
Some are businesses owned by an individual or company, and are there to, hopefully, make a profit for the shareholders. Wasps and Wanderers for example.
.
There are also clubs that are owned by a person or shareholders who are referred to as non-profit making companies. What this means is that all the profits are ploughed back into running the club - usually in these cases any extra after running expenses is paid to the owner(s) as income.
.
Finally there are member-owned clubs. If they make a profit that is spread amongst the members they are profit-making. If they invest all their money in the running of the club, and no-one can make a profit out of the Club if it is sold or disbanded it can qualify as a Community Amateur Sports Club (CASC) provided a lot of other rules are followed. Basically a CASC is a lot like a charity for tax purposes, and the Sport it is involved with must be recognised by Sport England.
.
Almost every amateur sport is not free to participate in. At the very least the participants will need to pay for insurance, and possibly membership of the governing body. In addition there is the costs associated with running the club - facility hire, rates, electricity, equipment wear and tear etc.

Thanks for that Phredd, Hughenden. I only know about cats and dogs. But not anymore after that

Sorry to have gone on a bit - amateur sport delivery is something of a passion of mine, having spent many years involved with it before I had to get a proper job.

There are some strange "sports" that qualify to be CASCs though:

Arm Wrestling, Baton Twirling, Folk Dancing, and Model Aircraft Flying.
There's also one called Hovering (I've no idea what that means!)

i really do hope HS2 goes ahead

Phredd wrote:
I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about amateur verses professional.
.
An amateur sport is one where participants are not paid, but can win prize money.
.
A professional sport is one where the participants are paid, win or lose.
.
You might well have to pay to watch amateur sports, especially if the organisers have to pay venue hire, judges etc.
.
Then there are the differences between different types of Clubs.
.
Some are businesses owned by an individual or company, and are there to, hopefully, make a profit for the shareholders. Wasps and Wanderers for example.
.
There are also clubs that are owned by a person or shareholders who are referred to as non-profit making companies. What this means is that all the profits are ploughed back into running the club - usually in these cases any extra after running expenses is paid to the owner(s) as income.
.
Finally there are member-owned clubs. If they make a profit that is spread amongst the members they are profit-making. If they invest all their money in the running of the club, and no-one can make a profit out of the Club if it is sold or disbanded it can qualify as a Community Amateur Sports Club (CASC) provided a lot of other rules are followed. Basically a CASC is a lot like a charity for tax purposes, and the Sport it is involved with must be recognised by Sport England.
.
Almost every amateur sport is not free to participate in. At the very least the participants will need to pay for insurance, and possibly membership of the governing body. In addition there is the costs associated with running the club - facility hire, rates, electricity, equipment wear and tear etc.

Here you go Phredd, :
!
"While we will stop work on the community stadium and sports project at the Air Park site, we are committed to investigating future sporting provision in the Wycombe district. We want to provide a new sports centre at Handy Cross and would like to engage with the community on possible options so that ultimately, we can provide facilities that we can all use and be proud of."
!
!
"Sounds to me Handy X and the wider Community to me, at the very least we'll be asked and that's a positive step.
"
!
http://www.wycombe.g
ov.uk/news/press-rel
ease/19jul11-council
-to-stop-work-on-com
munity-stadium-and-s
ports-project-at-wyc
ombe-air-park.aspx

I thought WWFC was the last members-owned club and that 78% of the 490-something members voted to de-mutualise it.

Passwords + 'club-home'

Must go now before my laptop turns back into a pumpkin at midnight.

Must go now before my laptop turns back into a pumpkin at midnight.

wayneo wrote:

Phredd wrote: I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about amateur verses professional. . An amateur sport is one where participants are not paid, but can win prize money. . A professional sport is one where the participants are paid, win or lose. . You might well have to pay to watch amateur sports, especially if the organisers have to pay venue hire, judges etc. . Then there are the differences between different types of Clubs. . Some are businesses owned by an individual or company, and are there to, hopefully, make a profit for the shareholders. Wasps and Wanderers for example. . There are also clubs that are owned by a person or shareholders who are referred to as non-profit making companies. What this means is that all the profits are ploughed back into running the club - usually in these cases any extra after running expenses is paid to the owner(s) as income. . Finally there are member-owned clubs. If they make a profit that is spread amongst the members they are profit-making. If they invest all their money in the running of the club, and no-one can make a profit out of the Club if it is sold or disbanded it can qualify as a Community Amateur Sports Club (CASC) provided a lot of other rules are followed. Basically a CASC is a lot like a charity for tax purposes, and the Sport it is involved with must be recognised by Sport England. . Almost every amateur sport is not free to participate in. At the very least the participants will need to pay for insurance, and possibly membership of the governing body. In addition there is the costs associated with running the club - facility hire, rates, electricity, equipment wear and tear etc.

Here you go Phredd, : ! "While we will stop work on the community stadium and sports project at the Air Park site, we are committed to investigating future sporting provision in the Wycombe district. We want to provide a new sports centre at Handy Cross and would like to engage with the community on possible options so that ultimately, we can provide facilities that we can all use and be proud of." ! ! "Sounds to me Handy X and the wider Community to me, at the very least we'll be asked and that's a positive step. " ! http://www.wycombe.g ov.uk/news/press-rel ease/19jul11-council -to-stop-work-on-com munity-stadium-and-s ports-project-at-wyc ombe-air-park.aspx

Let's just hope and pray that the redevelopment of Handy Cross does not involve enabling development of 500 house on Wycombe Air Park!

gpn01 wrote:

pault34 wrote:

gpn01 wrote: "Amateur" means that you don't get paid for doing it. Not that you don't have to pay for doing it. . It is however, unlike professional sports, completely free to watch.

Ahh, I see. So indeed you do have to pay a fortune to partake then as I initially thought. Very confusing.... Certainly a new stadium would have served a wide demographic of people. The existing installation there just seems to server the lucky few as I initially intimated.... I guess you can watch for free but its hard to work out who wins....

Your confusion is because you're applying some form of prejudice without reading what's being written. I made no mention of costs and yet you've chosen to infer that it costs a fortune. To some people the cost of entry to a football match is a fortune, to others owning a football club is not. All a matter of perspective. People choose to use their money as they see fit. Some people spend their money on beer, some people save it so they can spend it on something they enjoy. . I guess the 'wide demographic' that a new stadium would serve is pretty much the same as that which the existing stadium serves...so no additional benefit. . You're right about working out who's won in a glidng competition. Aerobatic rules work very similarly to ice skating. Racing works much like some sailing competitions. "Grand Prix" style racing is much easier though....it's whoever crosses the line first wins.

All I am saying is that gliding and other air-based activities are inaccessible and unrealistic for a wider part of society whereas a new community stadium with desperately needed new sports centre facilities would have benefitted a wider spectrum of the populous.

pault34 wrote:

gpn01 wrote:

pault34 wrote:

gpn01 wrote: "Amateur" means that you don't get paid for doing it. Not that you don't have to pay for doing it. . It is however, unlike professional sports, completely free to watch.

Ahh, I see. So indeed you do have to pay a fortune to partake then as I initially thought. Very confusing.... Certainly a new stadium would have served a wide demographic of people. The existing installation there just seems to server the lucky few as I initially intimated.... I guess you can watch for free but its hard to work out who wins....

Your confusion is because you're applying some form of prejudice without reading what's being written. I made no mention of costs and yet you've chosen to infer that it costs a fortune. To some people the cost of entry to a football match is a fortune, to others owning a football club is not. All a matter of perspective. People choose to use their money as they see fit. Some people spend their money on beer, some people save it so they can spend it on something they enjoy. . I guess the 'wide demographic' that a new stadium would serve is pretty much the same as that which the existing stadium serves...so no additional benefit. . You're right about working out who's won in a glidng competition. Aerobatic rules work very similarly to ice skating. Racing works much like some sailing competitions. "Grand Prix" style racing is much easier though....it's whoever crosses the line first wins.

All I am saying is that gliding and other air-based activities are inaccessible and unrealistic for a wider part of society whereas a new community stadium with desperately needed new sports centre facilities would have benefitted a wider spectrum of the populous.

Paul34,

The Sports village proposal only, realistically, included football and rugby pitches and a cricket green. The Badminton and Squash centres were dependant upon the users being able to fund them.
.
All these sports are readily available thoughout the District already, closer to where people actually live. In fact there are underused/unused football pitches spread throughout the District.
.
So can't see how they would have really benefitted a wider population.
.
Possibly the enlarged Badminton/Squash centres (if built) might have meant the members of the respective clubs would have had more chancce of getting more matches in, but the problem would have been the restrictions on use of those "community" facilities during the times the stadium was in use. Those times primarily being when most people want to play football and rugby matches.

Let's face it the so-called 'Sports Village' was a poorly thought out speculative project, dubiously funded with 50% coming from the local tax-payers (that's about 23% of the actual 'paying-in' population), run and promoted by dodgy characters and backed by dictatorial very unpopular councillors (now demoted). A planning and financial disaster waiting to happen.
.
It was just a scheme to acquire some ill-gotten gains for a small handful of people - a third rate Sports Supermarket over 2.5 miles out of town that the speculators / exploiters wanted people to travel to - with no car parking either. (???)
.
Anybody who believed any of those deceitful people involved (owners, politicians , other 'community leaders' etc) needs to look up the word 'gullible' in a convenient dictionary. They might find they can't find it.
.
Perhaps the old saying 'The good guys always win in the end' can be true sometimes.

J B Blackett wrote:
Let's face it the so-called 'Sports Village' was a poorly thought out speculative project, dubiously funded with 50% coming from the local tax-payers (that's about 23% of the actual 'paying-in' population), run and promoted by dodgy characters and backed by dictatorial very unpopular councillors (now demoted). A planning and financial disaster waiting to happen. . It was just a scheme to acquire some ill-gotten gains for a small handful of people - a third rate Sports Supermarket over 2.5 miles out of town that the speculators / exploiters wanted people to travel to - with no car parking either. (???) . Anybody who believed any of those deceitful people involved (owners, politicians , other 'community leaders' etc) needs to look up the word 'gullible' in a convenient dictionary. They might find they can't find it. . Perhaps the old saying 'The good guys always win in the end' can be true sometimes.

Your response is confusing the STADIUM proposal with the idea of a possible sports VILLAGE, a confusion that many others seem to have fallen foul of. The Business Case that WDC's Cabinet rejected was for a sports stadium and 'sports facilities' (rugby & fotball pitches). The 'sports village' was an additional, possible, future add-on for which no specific details were included.
.
Of the £67 Million project costs, ZERO was for the village, for which the document states "These facilities are assumed to be self funding and reliant upon third parties".
.
The BFP headlines are prefixed 'Stadium:' and not 'village:'for good reason.
.
Please don't confuse the two. The BBC in its report on the Cabinet did initially but this has now been corrected. WWFC's site continues to claim "COUNCIL VOTE NO TO SPORTING VILLAGE" which simply isn't true. They voted against a STADIUM project. Maybe WSDL submitted the wrong business plan? Their website talks about all of the benefits that a village would provide....so presumably a stadium wasn't needed after all?

gpn01 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:
Let's face it the so-called 'Sports Village' was a poorly thought out speculative project, dubiously funded with 50% coming from the local tax-payers (that's about 23% of the actual 'paying-in' population), run and promoted by dodgy characters and backed by dictatorial very unpopular councillors (now demoted). A planning and financial disaster waiting to happen. . It was just a scheme to acquire some ill-gotten gains for a small handful of people - a third rate Sports Supermarket over 2.5 miles out of town that the speculators / exploiters wanted people to travel to - with no car parking either. (???) . Anybody who believed any of those deceitful people involved (owners, politicians , other 'community leaders' etc) needs to look up the word 'gullible' in a convenient dictionary. They might find they can't find it. . Perhaps the old saying 'The good guys always win in the end' can be true sometimes.

Your response is confusing the STADIUM proposal with the idea of a possible sports VILLAGE, a confusion that many others seem to have fallen foul of. The Business Case that WDC's Cabinet rejected was for a sports stadium and 'sports facilities' (rugby & fotball pitches). The 'sports village' was an additional, possible, future add-on for which no specific details were included.
.
Of the £67 Million project costs, ZERO was for the village, for which the document states "These facilities are assumed to be self funding and reliant upon third parties".
.
The BFP headlines are prefixed 'Stadium:' and not 'village:'for good reason.
.
Please don't confuse the two. The BBC in its report on the Cabinet did initially but this has now been corrected. WWFC's site continues to claim "COUNCIL VOTE NO TO SPORTING VILLAGE" which simply isn't true. They voted against a STADIUM project. Maybe WSDL submitted the wrong business plan? Their website talks about all of the benefits that a village would provide....so presumably a stadium wasn't needed after all?

Who to believe ?
.
You, The BFP , The BBC , the local politicians ( the local MP it must be pointed out expressed no view whatsoever ) , the 'management team', the 'community leaders' , the protest groups , pro-groups , the residents of the area , The Labour Group , The Tory Group , The Lib Dems etc - all singing from different song sheets. No wonder a lot of people are still confused.
.
I'm glad you know the whole truth , because, I'm afraid, I still don't. And all the people I know with an opinion (pro and anti) don't either. Good luck and thank you.

J B Blackett wrote:

gpn01 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote: Let's face it the so-called 'Sports Village' was a poorly thought out speculative project, dubiously funded with 50% coming from the local tax-payers (that's about 23% of the actual 'paying-in' population), run and promoted by dodgy characters and backed by dictatorial very unpopular councillors (now demoted). A planning and financial disaster waiting to happen. . It was just a scheme to acquire some ill-gotten gains for a small handful of people - a third rate Sports Supermarket over 2.5 miles out of town that the speculators / exploiters wanted people to travel to - with no car parking either. (???) . Anybody who believed any of those deceitful people involved (owners, politicians , other 'community leaders' etc) needs to look up the word 'gullible' in a convenient dictionary. They might find they can't find it. . Perhaps the old saying 'The good guys always win in the end' can be true sometimes.

Your response is confusing the STADIUM proposal with the idea of a possible sports VILLAGE, a confusion that many others seem to have fallen foul of. The Business Case that WDC's Cabinet rejected was for a sports stadium and 'sports facilities' (rugby & fotball pitches). The 'sports village' was an additional, possible, future add-on for which no specific details were included. . Of the £67 Million project costs, ZERO was for the village, for which the document states "These facilities are assumed to be self funding and reliant upon third parties". . The BFP headlines are prefixed 'Stadium:' and not 'village:'for good reason. . Please don't confuse the two. The BBC in its report on the Cabinet did initially but this has now been corrected. WWFC's site continues to claim "COUNCIL VOTE NO TO SPORTING VILLAGE" which simply isn't true. They voted against a STADIUM project. Maybe WSDL submitted the wrong business plan? Their website talks about all of the benefits that a village would provide....so presumably a stadium wasn't needed after all?

Who to believe ? . You, The BFP , The BBC , the local politicians ( the local MP it must be pointed out expressed no view whatsoever ) , the 'management team', the 'community leaders' , the protest groups , pro-groups , the residents of the area , The Labour Group , The Tory Group , The Lib Dems etc - all singing from different song sheets. No wonder a lot of people are still confused. . I'm glad you know the whole truth , because, I'm afraid, I still don't. And all the people I know with an opinion (pro and anti) don't either. Good luck and thank you.

The Truth is, "Out There" according to the X-Files. In this case it's very easy to find. Just read the minutes of the WDC Cabinet meeting to see what was actually voted on. To save people the trouble of finding them, here's what was minuted: "RESOLVED: That (i) the Council stop work on the Community Stadium and sports project proposed on the Wycombe Air Park site; and
(ii) The Cabinet to then engage with all stakeholders in the community on all options to investigate future sporting provision in the District; something the District can be proud of."

I'm afraid that appears to me is just a few recorded facts mixed in with a few phrases favoured by politicians And issued by Wycombe Counci by proven group of duplicitous (imo) politicians and accessible via a blog on this BFP paper. I like easy answers but I think there is a lot more than going on than most people are allowed to access to.
.
This WD council and 'associated' others have a murky record of deception, dictatorial methods and secrecy over the past few years. So I tend to believe what I consider other reliable sources rather than the 'official' ones.
.
This Wycombe council has got a very long way to go to recover the lost credibility, the trust of the people and the openness they have wantonly and arrogantly dissipated in recent times. A very poor track record.
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It will take more than a few written words (which can be conveniently ignored later) to re-establish the trust that people used to have - and it's not just about the Hayes 'Stadium' either.
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That is my honest opinion. Actions are far more potent and important than some politicians' or 'business people's' words.

J B Blackett wrote:
I'm afraid that appears to me is just a few recorded facts mixed in with a few phrases favoured by politicians And issued by Wycombe Counci by proven group of duplicitous (imo) politicians and accessible via a blog on this BFP paper. I like easy answers but I think there is a lot more than going on than most people are allowed to access to. . This WD council and 'associated' others have a murky record of deception, dictatorial methods and secrecy over the past few years. So I tend to believe what I consider other reliable sources rather than the 'official' ones. . This Wycombe council has got a very long way to go to recover the lost credibility, the trust of the people and the openness they have wantonly and arrogantly dissipated in recent times. A very poor track record. . It will take more than a few written words (which can be conveniently ignored later) to re-establish the trust that people used to have - and it's not just about the Hayes 'Stadium' either. . That is my honest opinion. Actions are far more potent and important than some politicians' or 'business people's' words.

Whilst I understand the sentiment, and your opinion works for you, published minutes hold true as a matter of public record. In a court of law, which do you think would stand up - your opinion (or indeed that of "other reliable sources") or a published record of council proceedings?

gpn01 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:
I'm afraid that appears to me is just a few recorded facts mixed in with a few phrases favoured by politicians And issued by Wycombe Counci by proven group of duplicitous (imo) politicians and accessible via a blog on this BFP paper. I like easy answers but I think there is a lot more than going on than most people are allowed to access to. . This WD council and 'associated' others have a murky record of deception, dictatorial methods and secrecy over the past few years. So I tend to believe what I consider other reliable sources rather than the 'official' ones. . This Wycombe council has got a very long way to go to recover the lost credibility, the trust of the people and the openness they have wantonly and arrogantly dissipated in recent times. A very poor track record. . It will take more than a few written words (which can be conveniently ignored later) to re-establish the trust that people used to have - and it's not just about the Hayes 'Stadium' either. . That is my honest opinion. Actions are far more potent and important than some politicians' or 'business people's' words.

Whilst I understand the sentiment, and your opinion works for you, published minutes hold true as a matter of public record. In a court of law, which do you think would stand up - your opinion (or indeed that of "other reliable sources") or a published record of council proceedings?

That is debatable. A recent example in the last few years are the written minutes of various committee meetings held at the House of Commons and conducted by politicians / MPS with journalists , editors , policemen , owners of various newspapers , etc. about numerous topics not just the recent fiasco and associated webs of deceit. All of it recorded (apparently) truthfully and accurately.
.
But it (surprisingly) turns out some of the recorded utterances cannot be true as they are in conflict with other recorded utterances and even contradictory in some instances.
.
An additional feature of WDC meetings is that they give access tto 'the big boys and girls' but not very often to an opposing point of view. Just like the way Hughenden Council used to be run. There are numerous examples of the 'words' of duplicitous politicians and business people proving not to be trusted.
.
I appreciate your sincerity but I can not tread on what I and my sources consider shaky ground - not until it's safe and prudent to do so. Time will tell. Good Luck

J B Blackett wrote:

gpn01 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote: I'm afraid that appears to me is just a few recorded facts mixed in with a few phrases favoured by politicians And issued by Wycombe Counci by proven group of duplicitous (imo) politicians and accessible via a blog on this BFP paper. I like easy answers but I think there is a lot more than going on than most people are allowed to access to. . This WD council and 'associated' others have a murky record of deception, dictatorial methods and secrecy over the past few years. So I tend to believe what I consider other reliable sources rather than the 'official' ones. . This Wycombe council has got a very long way to go to recover the lost credibility, the trust of the people and the openness they have wantonly and arrogantly dissipated in recent times. A very poor track record. . It will take more than a few written words (which can be conveniently ignored later) to re-establish the trust that people used to have - and it's not just about the Hayes 'Stadium' either. . That is my honest opinion. Actions are far more potent and important than some politicians' or 'business people's' words.

Whilst I understand the sentiment, and your opinion works for you, published minutes hold true as a matter of public record. In a court of law, which do you think would stand up - your opinion (or indeed that of "other reliable sources") or a published record of council proceedings?

That is debatable. A recent example in the last few years are the written minutes of various committee meetings held at the House of Commons and conducted by politicians / MPS with journalists , editors , policemen , owners of various newspapers , etc. about numerous topics not just the recent fiasco and associated webs of deceit. All of it recorded (apparently) truthfully and accurately. . But it (surprisingly) turns out some of the recorded utterances cannot be true as they are in conflict with other recorded utterances and even contradictory in some instances. . An additional feature of WDC meetings is that they give access tto 'the big boys and girls' but not very often to an opposing point of view. Just like the way Hughenden Council used to be run. There are numerous examples of the 'words' of duplicitous politicians and business people proving not to be trusted. . I appreciate your sincerity but I can not tread on what I and my sources consider shaky ground - not until it's safe and prudent to do so. Time will tell. Good Luck

Indeed.

gpn01 wrote:

J B Blackett wrote:
Let's face it the so-called 'Sports Village' was a poorly thought out speculative project, dubiously funded with 50% coming from the local tax-payers (that's about 23% of the actual 'paying-in' population), run and promoted by dodgy characters and backed by dictatorial very unpopular councillors (now demoted). A planning and financial disaster waiting to happen. . It was just a scheme to acquire some ill-gotten gains for a small handful of people - a third rate Sports Supermarket over 2.5 miles out of town that the speculators / exploiters wanted people to travel to - with no car parking either. (???) . Anybody who believed any of those deceitful people involved (owners, politicians , other 'community leaders' etc) needs to look up the word 'gullible' in a convenient dictionary. They might find they can't find it. . Perhaps the old saying 'The good guys always win in the end' can be true sometimes.

Your response is confusing the STADIUM proposal with the idea of a possible sports VILLAGE, a confusion that many others seem to have fallen foul of. The Business Case that WDC's Cabinet rejected was for a sports stadium and 'sports facilities' (rugby & fotball pitches). The 'sports village' was an additional, possible, future add-on for which no specific details were included.
.
Of the £67 Million project costs, ZERO was for the village, for which the document states "These facilities are assumed to be self funding and reliant upon third parties".
.
The BFP headlines are prefixed 'Stadium:' and not 'village:'for good reason.
.
Please don't confuse the two. The BBC in its report on the Cabinet did initially but this has now been corrected. WWFC's site continues to claim "COUNCIL VOTE NO TO SPORTING VILLAGE" which simply isn't true. They voted against a STADIUM project. Maybe WSDL submitted the wrong business plan? Their website talks about all of the benefits that a village would provide....so presumably a stadium wasn't needed after all?

It seems JBB was guilty of terminological inexactitude but was otherwise bang on the ball (to use a sporting metaphor).

Whooo password = 'game-sure'

pault34 wrote:

blues chick wrote:
Unfortunately I had to work and thats why I was not there. Also as for the so called fans joining you on Saturday in my opinion it is because they simply dont want to be associated with Wasps. Who do you think has been keeping WWFC staff in wages all this time and taken this from his own pocket. We will end up just a conference side with a handfull of fans stood on the rye in the mud well done.

Well said Blues Chick. Some of us have to work but the likes of Ivor et al just meander round town moaning. At least when they have got their way and WWFC are gone they can return to buying Chelsea tickets and merchandise without any guilt...

What decent human being ever felt guilt rather than pride about supporting the Chelsea?

"terminological inexactitude" in the same way as referring to a game of football as a game of tennis....i.e. both have similarities but are very different.

pault34 wrote:

Edgar Brooks wrote:

pault34 wrote:

zwizz wrote: Well done, a victory for common sense and democracy for once! Well done to GASP for all their organising efforts. And also victory for those wanting a better Handy Cross Sports Complex; you may yet get one. Let's hope that a decent long-term future for recreational flying at Booker can now be assured, for as far into the future as it's already been there, and that's over seventy years. And well done to BFP for the "live" feed tonight, very helpful in the overflow room.

Who cares about recreational flying apart from a couple of rich blokes. This is a bad decision made by a sport hating town. For sport hating replace with obese/exercise dodgers....

A perfect case of needing to engage brain before tapping computer keys; if this town hates sport, nobody would have used the "sports village" anyway, which makes it even more of a white elephant. I suppose that someone as vitriolic as you will totally ignore this, but a lot of flying at Booker is done by professional pilots, who have to accrue a certain number of hours, in order to qualify to take ordinary holidaymakers abroad. I laughed at M40's assertion that now Booker will close, and Heathrow will be laughing; Booker would have closed, anyway, since the CAA would never have allowed flying to continue, so the prospect of the referees' whistles being continually drowned out by 747s and A380s was always there. Maybe the new order, in the council, will realise that getting some rent is better than getting none at all, and stop the swingeing increases, which were solely designed to drive the aircraft out, thereby getting a perfect reason for closing the airfield.

Wow, you really bit didnt you.
But seriously, is this all about plane lovers now? And as for pilots training so they can take 'ordinary' holidaymakers abroad....are they still required? Most people, myself included, have been forced to holiday in England now for mainly economic reasons so maybe the air park is now the white elephant perhaps...
What a weird old town I live in. Full of flying Chelsea fans :(

See my last quote!

gpn01 wrote:
"terminological inexactitude" in the same way as referring to a game of football as a game of tennis....i.e. both have similarities but are very different.

I think she was calling it the sporting village and meant the stadium et cetera – the rest of the stuff about:
/
‘poorly thought out speculative project, dubiously funded with 50% coming from the local tax-payers (that's about 23% of the actual 'paying-in' population), run and promoted by dodgy characters and backed by dictatorial very unpopular councillors (now demoted). A planning and financial disaster waiting to happen. . It was just a scheme to acquire some ill-gotten gains for a small handful of people - a third rate Sports Supermarket over 2.5 miles out of town that the speculators / exploiters wanted people to travel to - with no car parking either.’
/
all seems fair enough.
/
(Password + 'soil-sell')

pault34 wrote:

Edgar Brooks wrote:

pault34 wrote:

zwizz wrote: Well done, a victory for common sense and democracy for once! Well done to GASP for all their organising efforts. And also victory for those wanting a better Handy Cross Sports Complex; you may yet get one. Let's hope that a decent long-term future for recreational flying at Booker can now be assured, for as far into the future as it's already been there, and that's over seventy years. And well done to BFP for the "live" feed tonight, very helpful in the overflow room.

Who cares about recreational flying apart from a couple of rich blokes. This is a bad decision made by a sport hating town. For sport hating replace with obese/exercise dodgers....

A perfect case of needing to engage brain before tapping computer keys; if this town hates sport, nobody would have used the "sports village" anyway, which makes it even more of a white elephant. I suppose that someone as vitriolic as you will totally ignore this, but a lot of flying at Booker is done by professional pilots, who have to accrue a certain number of hours, in order to qualify to take ordinary holidaymakers abroad. I laughed at M40's assertion that now Booker will close, and Heathrow will be laughing; Booker would have closed, anyway, since the CAA would never have allowed flying to continue, so the prospect of the referees' whistles being continually drowned out by 747s and A380s was always there. Maybe the new order, in the council, will realise that getting some rent is better than getting none at all, and stop the swingeing increases, which were solely designed to drive the aircraft out, thereby getting a perfect reason for closing the airfield.

Wow, you really bit didnt you.
But seriously, is this all about plane lovers now? And as for pilots training so they can take 'ordinary' holidaymakers abroad....are they still required? Most people, myself included, have been forced to holiday in England now for mainly economic reasons so maybe the air park is now the white elephant perhaps...
What a weird old town I live in. Full of flying Chelsea fans :(

As a sport hating obese/exercise dodger who is a flying Chelsea fan I object to being called weird.

As a sport hating obese/exercise dodger who is a flying Chelsea fan I object to being called weird.

Plus ça change... wrote:
I'd like a small pool, CV room, small running track and the rest about a 3/4 of a mile from my house.

I promise I'll walk.

What is a 'CV room'?

Dr John Dinosaur wrote:

Plus ça change... wrote:
I'd like a small pool, CV room, small running track and the rest about a 3/4 of a mile from my house.

I promise I'll walk.

What is a 'CV room'?

Well, a CV Joint is a Constant Velocity Joint, so I reckon a CV Room is a Lounge in trendyspeak.

Or is it the Jobcentre?

I love Football and I love Flying but please dont tell me Gliding is a Sport!! Its a Pastime or even a Hobby not a Sport ? What defines a Sport? Surely not sitting in a Glider and waving the arms with the stick?

The New Stadium plan would probably have been against EU competition law due to the level of subsidy it involved to two privately owned professional sports clubs. In the form it was presented it is quite likely that if passed by the local council it would then have been referred to the European Competition Commission.

John Ley wrote:
The New Stadium plan would probably have been against EU competition law due to the level of subsidy it involved to two privately owned professional sports clubs. In the form it was presented it is quite likely that if passed by the local council it would then have been referred to the European Competition Commission.

Not thought of that, good point!

BOGITS wrote:
I love Football and I love Flying but please dont tell me Gliding is a Sport!! Its a Pastime or even a Hobby not a Sport ? What defines a Sport? Surely not sitting in a Glider and waving the arms with the stick?

Indeed, what defines a sport? Darts? Snooker? Archery? I expect lovers of these activities will tell you they are sports and require physical fitness.
.
Is competition part of the definition? Gliding is competitive, in both cross country racing and in aerobatics, and Booker GC has produced its share of champions.
.
However you classify gliding, it provides a lot more exercise than sitting in a stadium. You're out in the fresh air for hours, and since it's a club you have to do your share of running around launching and retrieving gliders, with the option of weight lifting when helping to rig them. And a cross country flight of say 300km, which would take upwards of 3 hours, is very tiring, you might be sitting down but you are expending plenty of energy both mental and physical. Give it a try and you'll see for yourself, it's not just for 'the few'.

BOGITS is a typical dim-wit who doesn't think before making a comment or perhaps he isn't able to think at all.
One thing that is clear is the fact that the gliding club should have done much more to explain what the club does to provide gliding as a sport for the people of High Wycombe and the surrounding area. It certainly isn't an elitist sport as it can be enjoyed by people of all income levels. The club owns training two seat gliders which are used to teach it's members to fly. it also owns single seat gliders, so members can fly without the need to buy a glider of their own. Many members do buy their own glider but this is usually as part of a syndicate.
Flying gliders is both mentally stimulating and physicaly demanding, not only do the gliders have to be rigged which calls for skills more akin to weight lifting, it also calls for stamina as some of the flights can involve staying air-born for up to ten hours!
Many championships for diferent skill levels and differing types of gliders are run throughout the country and world championships are held each year. Booker gliding club has produced both national and world champions,
Yes gliding is a sport of the very highest order and the gliding club would welcome any one who would like to give it try.

Far from a Dim-Wit my old fruit!!! Perhaps if I drive my car 300km it makes me a sports person? Come on!! Perhaps we should all take up snail racing and call that a sport.......Uh go away!!! You sad person

Gliding is more of a sport than football.
Football today (other than that played on places like the Rye, is big business.

In fact often corrupt business.

Oh, and bogits, here in the UK we still measure road distance in good old miles!
(dim-wit!) ;-)

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BOGITS wrote:
Far from a Dim-Wit my old fruit!!! Perhaps if I drive my car 300km it makes me a sports person? Come on!! Perhaps we should all take up snail racing and call that a sport.......Uh go away!!! You sad person

What, you think driving a motor isn't sport? H'mmm, take a look at the Motor SPORT magazines......Formu
la 1 - 4, Rallying, 24 hour Le Mans, etc.

BOGITS, you seem to have forgotten the maxim "when you find yourself in a hole stop digging"
And by the way i'm rather proud of the fact that i'm not an "old fruit"