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The perfect wife and mother, Rebecca runs a home, a village magazine and is working on her novel. She does not visit the gym or jog but is in amazingly good shape. She enjoys photography, playing the piano and arguing with the TV. She lives in Amersham with her husband and youngest child (aged nine). Her eldest, now 26, lives and works in Buckinghamshire.

English as a Foreign Language

By Rebecca »

English is my mother tongue. But listening to the radio and TV recently has me agog at the language’s twists and turns.

My last visit to Tesco confirmed one of two theories of mine. Either:
a) Graphic designers are being given free reign over labels or

b) No one knows anything any more.

What was it that caused me such distress? Scott’s Porage oats. It doesn’t take much to have my hair roots feeling prickly with rage and my eyes bulging in disbelief – no wonder I’m a solitary creature.

I buy porridge and it’s been porridge since I was a girl. Is 'porage' more French – seems we’re meant to hail anything vaguely French here? Or is it – as I suspect – some new way of catching the consumer’s eye?

”Incidentally when I typed in ‘Scott’s porage oats’, even my search engine, tactfully asked me, ‘Did you mean Scott’s porridge oats?’”

‘Oh look Gavin, porage. Must be what the French have for breakfast. Shall we try it?’

Incidentally when I typed in ‘Scott’s porage oats’, even my search engine, tactfully asked me, ‘Did you mean Scott’s porridge oats?’

The worst of it is it’s everywhere. Sadly I listen to Magic 105.4 a lot. There’s a newsreader on during the day who I think with many other broadcasters has invented a speech defect. Every hour, on the hour she says she’s in the 'Magic Newsshroom'.

This isn’t a slur on anyone with speech difficulties. This is a slur on pretentious new enunciation and tricks to make listeners sit up and listen; after all they’ve tried everything else.

There are new accents on TV which aren’t regional but cross-border even cross continent and I can’t understand a thing.

There’s a chap on CBBC who appears in between programmes who at the beginning of the year said, ‘Goodbye two ffousanannine’. He’s vaguely Scottish (perhaps he's eaten too much porage – ah, no one thought there’d be side effects) but I think he’s worked hard on something new which no one can identify. A bit cockney? A bit interesting? No, just wholly irritating.

Then there are chefs. Oh, lord TV chefs. If it’s not Nigella Lawson flashing her teeth while cooking (can you please stop doing that Nigella?) it’s Jamie Oliver grabbing a dish for his kiwi and spinach timbale or whatever saying, ‘Now we’re just gonna plate it up’.

Or there’s the rest of them talking about frying the onions off. Off? Off what? You fry food and serve it up on a plate. ‘Plate’ isn’t a verb.

“Is it really people’s inability to speak/spell properly or the new subliminal tricks to get us to notice things? I think the latter.”

I can cope with regional accents though I remember once being in Wakefield, Yorkshire and having to call a taxi. Whatever the chap on the other end of the phone asked me, I couldn’t tell even after asking him to repeat it three times. He was becoming offended and out of shame, I hung up and went by bus I think. I saw that as my failing.

I can stand curious dialects and colourful expressions and the language evolving gradually but I cannot tolerate trends and fads and invented language. Shakespeare did it, you’ll argue. I argue that he was unique.

We still use his innovations five hundred years on. What isn’t happening today is society adopting these new idiotic language landfills. No one seems to be using the same ones: everyone's creating their own and not sharing them. There should be rules. Reduce, re-use, re-cycle the language.

Is it really people’s inability to speak/spell properly or the new subliminal tricks to get us to notice things? I think the latter.

I think of the prevalent lisps in the 17th century and the sort of warped young people’s take on funk-speak as epitomised by Catherin Tate. Today it’s America. We can think of nothing better. I’m disappointed.

Going back to the 'porage' – some interesting comments appear on a related site. Apparently 'porage' isn’t new. The OED cites usage going back five hundred years. It’s still intolerable. Faddy.

Unless we go the whole hog and introduce all other olde spellings. (‘My howse hath a hole in the rooffe...’ or ‘His wife is an oat shorte of a bowle of porage...’) Some intellectual is welcome to correct my poor olde English: I only learned the new type.

“If this is another symptom of dumbing down, it’s working”

Two more things before I go. Not everybody’s as good as they think they are. So when I ask, ‘How are you?’ DO NOT respond, ‘I’m good.’ I may break out in a rash of horrendous angry boils or something; or worse cast a spell of boils on you ‘good’ people. Unless you are a truly good person. Then again is that the sort of thing you'd drop into a casual conversation?

So someone might ask me, 'Have you seen the new tops in Primark?' and I'd answer, 'I have everything I need. I'm solvent and live off my savings.' Something like that anyway.

Secondly, there’s an overuse of the word 'absolutely’. It doesn’t mean ‘yes’. People are using it all over the flipping place. ‘So you enjoyed your trip?’ ‘Absolutely.’ ‘Will you be going back?’ ‘Absolutely’. ‘Have you enough money for a bottle of ginger beer?’ ‘Absolutely.’

Can we please call an end to attention-grabbing trends and just make ourselves understood? If this is another symptom of dumbing down, it’s working: it makes me feel dumb and other people sound it. One nation divided by a once splendid language.

The worst of it is that it's catching. You end up copying (human nature I think). My parting thought? ‘Two ffousananten’s gonna be absolulutely a newsshworthy yeeaauurrr...’


Comments(48)

motco says...
10:26am Mon 22 Mar 10

I generally agree with you Rebecca although 'porage' was the spelling on Scott's boxes even when I was a child - a while back I must say. What I find annoying is weather forecasters trying to be Jack-the Lads (or laddettes) and becoming 'personalities' at the expense of audibility and intelligibility, and (mainly) the female ones pronouncing long 'O' as in 'tube' as if it were a long 'E' - 'cheebe'. They sound as if they have an inane grin on their faces all the time. Even the traffic announcers speak of 'The Old Kent Rade'. Is it a result of seeing too many Australian soaps in their youth, I wonder?

Rebecca Leon says...
11:58am Mon 22 Mar 10

Oh spot on, Motco - I missed these!
:
Of course you can't say 'tube' if you have to smile at the same time. Weather celebs ...
:
In fact now you mention it, it's not even 'rade' it's 'wrade'. some stupid, underdeveloped girly-speak. The consonants aren't even left in peace...

Fractal says...
3:23pm Mon 22 Mar 10

Ohh, i know. People don't talk like what they should. Knarr wot I mean?
~
You forgot to mention that awful voice-over, geordie character that adds that dreadful, exagerated accent for Big-Brother. Hateful!
~
The list of mis-used words and phrases is endless of course, but it has always been that way. Society has broadened to encompass the globe and English-as-she-is-sp
oken has adapted to rapid change reasonably well. It is a shame that we have to put up with commercials leading the way. They and the so-called 'popular' press must take the blame.
~
Nevertheless, while there are people such as yourself to wite with lucid ease of readability, there is hope for us all.
~
Nice blog

Rebecca Leon says...
4:32pm Mon 22 Mar 10

Awww, Fractal, that's a lovely thing to say. x

Plus ça change... says...
4:40pm Mon 22 Mar 10

It's also pretentious not to flex and change with the times.

You should partially give up trying and partially persist in your quest.

And with some of the variants of 'Bucks Thames Estuary' 'wot is spoken' around here we should bite our tongues before criticising any other regional dialect or pronunciation...

There's always two sides to that story!!

Rebecca Leon says...
7:49pm Mon 22 Mar 10

Plus ça change, oh dearie, dearie me. A real mixed bag of messages: give up, persist, don't criticise dialects, don't be pretentious... Well, I only do one request a day so I'll persist.
:
Perhaps you can be more explicit about how it's pretentious not to flex and change. Maybe I lack imagination but I'm unsure how you equate the two.
:
Please do bear in mind that I meant to make it clear that I didn't object to dialects ('I can stand curious dialects') and accents ('I can cope with regional accents') as well as 'the language evolving gradually'.
:
Funny feeling quoting oneself... Like your own mirror image talking back to you...

J B Blackett says...
10:03pm Mon 22 Mar 10

Rebecca Leon wrote:
Funny feeling quoting oneself... Like your own mirror image talking back to you...
.
Take care ! That sounds like something from 'Snow White'.
.
Don't trust a mirror - it will only tell you things it thinks you'd like to know. Not the truth.
.
You can test this by examining your 'image' closely. You will see the untrustworthy devious mirror has rotated what you think of as 'you' through a whole 180 degrees.
.
A deception of the highest order. On a par with your average politician and not to be trusted.
.
Regards and take care.
PS You are correct about Pcc's unfocused observations IMHO. He/she does have an enigmatic roundabout way of expressing him/herself. You have to read it likewise.

demoness says...
7:20am Tue 23 Mar 10

I blame the American bastardisation of our language.
It won't be long before we are just another state. :(

Plus ça change... says...
7:41am Tue 23 Mar 10

I am not disagreeing with you.

But I probably tend towards more tolerance. There are linguistic fads of all sorts ... some will go away and some will stay for decades and longer and forever...

There are spoken conventions that probably have a similar effect on me.

For example, TV presenters find it challenging to say a simple 'thank you' any more - an unctious and toady 'thankyouverymuchind
eed' seems de rigeur these days.

The downside is that if we point out these perceived spoken 'transgressions' to those close to us we risk becoming as irritating to them as these 'linguistic offences' are to us.

Hence my advice to 'give up' and 'persist' in tandem as what we say will have little effect other than to vent our own frustration.

And our language would be no fun if it did not change.

Rebecca Leon says...
9:33am Tue 23 Mar 10

Demoness: but we haven't been forced to take on their language - we've done it of our own free will. That's teh worst part. Now anything goes!
:
PCC: OK, I admit, tolerance isn't my strong point. I and my family can vouch for the fact that I am already an irritating, over-analytical, critical, mocker of all I find ridiculous around me!
:
I can't stand fads. They seem invented by people who think (wrongly) they have something creative and unusual to offer and followed by people who have no thought of their own.
:
Your argument about it having 'little effect' I must take issue with. This forum may not steer any new action groups but speaking and challenging is vital in society.
:
I bet huge changes like the the Russian revolution and abolition of slavery and apartheid and women being given the vote started life as little complaints in someone's parlour/barn/field.
:
Silence is the dictator's ally...

Blueberry says...
10:41am Tue 23 Mar 10

So if a word/usage that is widely understood and is accepted in the dictionary isn't acceptable to you, what are your criteria?

carpediem says...
11:35am Tue 23 Mar 10

demoness wrote:
I blame the American bastardisation of our language. It won't be long before we are just another state. :(
As annoying as many Americanisms are (I can't stand "movie" and "soccer"), they outnumber us 4 to 1, and of the 600 million english-speakers worldwide, only 10% live in the UK - so can we still refer to it as OUR language? Really it belongs to everyone who speaks it. Or we could create a french-style Academie Anglaise to maintain our linguistic purity!

Rebecca Leon says...
12:44pm Tue 23 Mar 10

Acceptable to whom Blueberry? Not sure if that was a question for me? But I'll respond anyway.
:
I'm talking about idiosyncratic inventions as mentioned above. I know NO ONE who says 'plate up the food' (is it in the dictionary?) or that 'absolutely' has a new definition in one.
:
Carpediem, yes a valid point. But neither do many here want to adopt the euro... Why not? Everyone else has. Sovereignty, identity, something of that ilk keeps us from 'joining in' with everything.
:
And I don't even want to think about 'roofs' and 'fishes'...

Plus ça change... says...
12:53pm Tue 23 Mar 10

It's a very fine line between highlighting the perceived inadequacies we deem someone else exhibits linguistically and exhibiting our own inadequacies and fixations in being sensitive to that in the first place!

The number of people in the world that more and more competently use English as a 'lingua franca' dwarf American and UK usage.

Maybe 'the Rest of the World' will take forward 'our' language for us. We mustn't forget that English has evolved from a 'mélange' of different language influences over quite some time now.

Blueberry says...
1:31pm Tue 23 Mar 10

Rebecca, it was addressed to you (sorry for not making that clear). I was particularly thinking of your objection to using "absolutely" to indicate agreement - which is the second of four definitions in the Concise OED.
.
On another point, I don't understand you reply to the question about Primark? Do you object to a syntactical aspect or does it reflect your frugal nature and dislike of shopping?

J B Blackett says...
2:09pm Tue 23 Mar 10

There is (was?) a well-known book called "The Loom of Language" by Fred Bodmer - which traces the origins of many languages and how they have evolved and interacted over the millenia.
.
That's how things work and it is almost unstoppable because it is to some extent uncontrollable. viz The French Government tried to impose 'proper' words on their people in the 70s/80s to avoid its Anglicization - as they saw it. A new dictionary was produced - now already moribund I think.
.
The Welsh language also has been changed (corrupted if you like) for a different reason. Nobody has thought to invent new words for modern day items - so 'refrigerator , iPod , Internet , blog , vacuum cleaner' etc plus thousands of other words that English-speaking people take for granted , have been 'borrowed' And that process continues and will not be stopped unless something unforeseeable happens. Listen to a Welsh broadcast - it's almost understandable sometimes nowadays.
.
Sad in a way. But English itself sheds words every day/ month / year as words fall out of use. All the old agricultural , industrial , military items and tools (thousands of them) all had names for example but very few people even remember them now.
.
Words are for communicating and if the concept / meaning / usage of the word no longer exists , then the word dies.
.
Having said that , I particularly hate words like 'Center' and 'Kwik' and 'Mart' etc - all denying our language's Latin or other roots. But the process goes on. I sometimes feel like correcting the horrible words with some strategically placed graffiti
.
To that extent I concur with demoness, but what is one to do ?
Regards

Rebecca Leon says...
5:47pm Tue 23 Mar 10

Primark question: I was trying to point out that a simple question could render an irrelevant answer as (to me) 'absolutely' is now meaningless and irrelevant as an answer to simple questions which only need 'yes' or 'no'.
:
I like Primark tops.
:
Blueberry: not in my Concise OED. Perhaps I need say no more. (It's a little old...)
:
JBB: do words die if not used? I must look into this.

motco says...
8:29pm Tue 23 Mar 10

I am thoroughly enjoying this thread! I side with Rebecca in that I wholeheartedly relish regional accents and dialogues, but I deplore pretentious 'accents' such as those adopted by 'yoofs' who want nothing more than to be 'of the 'hood' and be from the Bronx with their 'arks' for 'ask' and exaggerated drawl saying "waad" when it's 'wide' that they are saying - the speech is redolent of 'The Wire' rather than Marlow High Street.

The broadcast media's obsession with reversing Lord Reith's mission to deliver all spoken words in a carefully modulated RP voice by flooding the airwaves with not merely regional accents but those that even the better educated denizens of the region in question would find unintelligible is to be deprecated. In my working life I have had to communicate with people 'on the shop floor' in all regions of the British Isles and never have I encounted a single one who didn't understand my RP but I, in my turn, have struggled with Pitmatic in Tyneside, and Black Country accents in Wolverhampton. Surely, if the media are a means of communication then it is a nonsense to put a speaker of such impenetrable dialect on air when there are available the John Woodvines and Ian Cuthbertsons and Mike Hardings and Philip Madocs whose speech is unquestionably regional in nature, and delightful for that, but who can make themselves understood to someone from anywhere in Great Britain?

For those who think I am a snob, I must point out that I was born of working class parents and a mother who was a true Cockney - my education was as far from Eton as can be - the school was certainly public but more like a public convenience than a public school. English is one of the greatest languages of the world and deserves to be treated with utmost respect. Listen to Shakespeare and wallow in the near-orgasmic pleasure of his words! "Soft, what light through yonder window breaks?"

motco says...
8:31pm Tue 23 Mar 10

Obviously 'dialogues' should be 'dialects'! Blame the passion...

Rebecca Leon says...
10:08am Wed 24 Mar 10

Goodness me! Motco - what an impassioned appeal! I like that kind of thing.
:
As I lay in bed last night mulling over these comments , I was struck by how many Latin phrases we use though they say it's a dead language.
:
'Post-mortem', 'status quo', 'antenatal', 'et cetera' these were the ones that came to mind first... Boris Johnson wants us all to learn Latin. Maybe he has a point and has this new language rape in mind.
:
It's just curious how we haven't bettered these expressions with new-fangled innovations. I didn't learn Latin but wouldn't mind having a go.
:
I'm sure it's only a matter of time before we talk about 'the cutting up after a death' and the like. Just so people don't have to worry about words which aren't easy. Then what? Language anarchy!
:
One last thing which bothers me. Could weather presenters please stop telling mewhen to eat my meals. They tell me what it'll be like at 'tea-time' (around six) or as yesterday, breakfast time' (meaning 8.00).
:
Who is this new dimension for? I'll have dinner (not tea) when it's ready and how many working people have breakfast at eight?
:
Are they going to start telling us what it'll be like at eight in the morning 'when you're having your bacon, egg and sausage'? Or 'porage'...

motco says...
11:52am Wed 24 Mar 10

Autopsy might be a good alternative. Both my children learned Latin - neither complained and my daughter started a long love affair with the Classics, Greek and Roman, as a result. My son went on into medicine and there's no profession like that to be better at obfuscating the facts with Latin terms! 'Idiopathic' = unknown cause, 'Iatrogenic' = caused by the doctor. They wouldn't want you knowing that, now would they? :)

Rebecca Leon says...
1:48pm Wed 24 Mar 10

Better and better!
:
Maybe I've watched too much American crime; 'autopsy' feels like an American version.
:
I'm definitely going to integrate these medical words into my everyday vocabulary.
:
And how many of us have requested to see our medical (ciphered) records? What would we make of them?
:
The one that sticks in my memory from many years ago is GOK...
:
Brings to mind cockney-rhyming slang! Wasn't that devised to obscure?

Plus ça change... says...
5:23pm Wed 24 Mar 10

Etymologically you might well find that porage came before porridge and that porridge may in fact be the 'new kid on the block', the modern variant...

It seems the Latin porrus = leek ( Spanish = puerro) are not a million kilometers away from 'our' porridge, with lots of other, woe be unto us, non-English words inbetween.

There's nothing 'pure' about language.

Only fuddy-duddies and crossword 'fillers' think that!

Anyway, hope you, Ollie and the other new 'guys' keep on blogging - it does bring up the level somewhat and gets us away, occasionally, from bugged potholes and other predictable paint-drying topics.

demoness says...
6:42pm Wed 24 Mar 10

This is a great blog. I find that language is fascinating and I applaud motco's impassioned speech.
We have to recognise that language does and will evolve but changing words for the sake of it, taking out letters that happens over the water just seems pointless.

Eachban says...
11:41pm Wed 24 Mar 10

One of the main reasons English is the international language is the fact it is very flexible, anf adapts and grows. The Empire may have played some small part too, particular those revolutionary ingrates in the States.
.
The polar opposite is Latin - which is a dead language. It is much learned and studied, but there is no native speakers of Latin left in the world, and it is unchanged since time immemorial.
.
There are aspects of spoken and written language that invariably grate or jar, whether apparently deliberate pismoprunciation or lazy 'accents' like the much maligned Estuary English. I find it amusing how many British people seem to be total strangers to their own language (after the Act of Union everyone on these sceptered isles became English, if only linguistically).
.
As for porage, I am pretty sure that Pcc has it right, and your preferred porridge is the fad in this particular case. I also recall it ever being thus on the Scott's box, so I guess this becomes the perfect point on which to wonder at what point the old becomes defunct and the new passes from fad to correct grammar. The suggestion that the use of porage means we should revert to some pastiche of Shakespearean style prose is rather missing the point - in a world of change some things endure, even if only in small enclaves.

J B Blackett says...
11:43pm Wed 24 Mar 10

Plus ça change... wrote:
Etymologically you might well find that porage came before porridge and that porridge may in fact be the 'new kid on the block', the modern variant...

It seems the Latin porrus = leek ( Spanish = puerro) are not a million kilometers away from 'our' porridge, with lots of other, woe be unto us, non-English words inbetween.

There's nothing 'pure' about language.

Only fuddy-duddies and crossword 'fillers' think that!

Anyway, hope you, Ollie and the other new 'guys' keep on blogging - it does bring up the level somewhat and gets us away, occasionally, from bugged potholes and other predictable paint-drying topics.
I watched 'Porridge' on the TV - I would not have enjoyed it half as much if it had been called 'Porage'.
.
There again if you watched it (and it had been called 'Porage' ) and enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed it when it was called 'Porridge' , you will have enjoyed twice as much as I would have done if it had been called 'Porage'.
.
To be honest I'm only trying to stir things up a bit. Life gets lumpy, doesn't it ?
.
Regards

Rebecca Leon says...
9:33am Thu 25 Mar 10

If it had been called 'Porage' back then, and 'Porage' was what I saw on a box of porridge, I think it would have had equal appeal.
:
The evidence weighs heavily in favour of 'porridge' being the new kid on the block.
:
I now think 'porage' and 'porridge' are faddy...
:
Funnily enough the programme on bread last night convinced me that a new 'thing' in marketing is to promote a return to the 'good old days'.
:
What used to be poor people's food (wholegrain) is now the choice of the middle-classes.
:
Is 'porage' appealing to those over a certain age who remember it being spelt so? You know, reminiscing, feeling secure that things haven't really changed. Does it work?
:
The 'grey economy' is huge and people might be realising they can't sell everything to those under 24.
:
Let them eat coco pops and cheerios! I'll have porridge with cream and brown sugar any day.

motco says...
9:42am Thu 25 Mar 10

In partial defence (defense?) of our US cousins, many of the terms they use are frozen in time from the days of the pioneers who first colonised the country: 'faucet' and 'gotten' being two well known examples. It has been said that the accent in western England in the fifteenth century was not far removed from 'standard' American of today. I do chuckle, though, when I hear an American try to say 'mirror' or 'squirrel'.

Spelling as a fixed function is a modern phenomenon - even the Bard was known to spell his name in a variety of ways, there being no single set standard. The concept of 'correct' spelling probably emerged with universal literacy as hardly anybody could read or write before that therefore spelling was largely academic.

I used to work with an Austrian student back in the seventies and she told me that affectations of pronunciation were not confined to English. "MAG-azine" is the new "mag-a-zine" in English, and " Ita-LEEYA-shtrasser" (Italiastrasse) the new "ITALYA-sshtrasser" in the Vienna of the time. It's all too easy to be parochial about this but just think how miffed the French are about 'le weekend', 'miniskirt', etc. Although they probably just about put up with miniskirts!

grimmmy says...
4:07pm Thu 25 Mar 10

The term "Porage" was introduced in 1914 so I suspect we can't complain too much. It was a play on words as well (well, a combination of Scottish and French).

My personal gripe is "Quadrilogy" as in the "Die Hard Quadrilogy" or anything with 4 films in.

Quadrilogy isn't a word. Tetralogy is actually the work they mean and would suit far better.

Rebecca Leon says...
9:39am Fri 26 Mar 10

Language is fluid yes, but I've always maintained that it evolves naturally and over time. Not suddenly, overnight.
:
I'm beginning to make a U-turn. The arguments being presented are rational, informed (I think!) and convincing.
:
I won't backtrack on my dislike of attention-grabbing novelties though. I never liked leg-warmers or wearing clothes back to front either...

motco says...
9:55am Fri 26 Mar 10

A famous quote regarding the food based on the grain in question is:

"OATS ‘a grain which in England is generally given to horses, but in Scotland supports the people’"

Rebecca Leon says...
8:51pm Fri 26 Mar 10

I like this.
:
I also want to ban 'do-able'...

Plus ça change... says...
4:15pm Sat 27 Mar 10

That should be doable...!

J B Blackett says...
4:57pm Sat 27 Mar 10

Not as in 'pas a doble' then ?

wisegirl says...
6:49pm Sat 27 Mar 10

I do agree with you Rebecca although I have to admit I' m one of those shameful people who use the word 'Absolutely' and awful lot. I think I got it from my boyfriend to be honest and feel there's something very positive and affirming about it rather than just 'Yes'.
Every language evolves and must do, but I get really annoyed when people don't speak properly on TV. For example there's a brilliant show about a Medium but she always asks
'Do you want to know everythink?' Surely any person over the age of 10 knows the word is EVERYTHING? I feel that someone who is being broadcasted could at least speak correctly. I'm not talking 'stuck up, I went to public school' but just correct. It irritates me and, like you smacks of either trying to be more interesting or just laziness. Even David beckham had the decency to learn how to construct a sentence properly.
Or Aleysha Dixon on Strictly come dancing saying, week after week 'You was really good' surely whatever background we come from we can learn to do things better. It's not about denying where we come from or being someone we're not but just being the best we can be in every way possible.

Rebecca Leon says...
2:26pm Sun 28 Mar 10

PCC: who says that's how it's spelt?! Wouldn't that rhyme with 'noble'?
:
JBB I think you mean 'paso doble'...
:
Wisegirl: people on TV and radio should definitely know grammatical English. A fine example of what drives me bonkers.
:
And is pronouncing 'everything' 'everythink' (or it it the even worse 'evryfink'?) to do with a regional accent? I can't say and don't care but I don't want to hear it or have my daughter hear it. Sorry if that sounds London-centric or anti-regions.
:
On the flip side, when abroad I've had my accent made fun of plenty whether I'm talking English in America or Ireland or doing my best with speaking other European languages. It was done affectionately and I didn't take offence. Mind you I wasn't trying to be different, just be understood!
:
I suppose this topic is universally funny/annoying.

J B Blackett says...
3:49pm Sun 28 Mar 10

Rebecca Leon wrote :
JBB I think you mean 'paso doble'..
.
You are correct RL ; allow me a smidgen of poetic licence please. I don't speak / understand Spanish and really can only just cope with the vagaries , nuances and contradictions in the English language as at this point in time.
.
Regards
PS Am currently trying make myself paint a ceiling.

Plus ça change... says...
8:43pm Sun 28 Mar 10

'.. currently trying make myself paint a ceiling ..'

Plain colour or Sistine?

'.. PCC: who says that's how it's spelt?! Wouldn't that rhyme with 'noble'..?'

Wasn't a suggestion or correction. Just though the banning of do-able would be do-able...

J B Blackett says...
12:28am Mon 29 Mar 10

Sorry Pcc - I only have one colour and that is white (matt). Because of that and the fact I'm having to revert to my own physical (ie manual) labour it probably is better to describe it as 'Cistercian' . Regards.
.
PS - You may think I could be stretching it a bit too far with that.

Plus ça change... says...
10:04am Mon 29 Mar 10

Raise some medieval scaffolding to paint your ceiling from and you may get that famous local painter 'Ivorangelo da Wicombi' to come and assist.

You could paint all the faces of all the BFreeP bloggers and posters on your ceiling - with salient features of the town - could be worth a fortune in 600 years' time.

Don't forget a small image of a Roman villa - bottom right.

( Ooops, back to Latin....!! )

Rebecca Leon says...
5:35pm Mon 29 Mar 10

Paint a ceiling? I did that once and thought green would be lovely for a bedroom. Green's hard to get right...
:
I'm just trying to hide the walls i.e.
hang pictures which I've had for ages, hung, moved, removed, re-hung and then packed away.
:
JBB: sometimes I lack humour. Sometimes I misunderstand and other times just don't get the 'vagaries, nuances and contradictions in the English language' myself.

J B Blackett says...
7:37pm Mon 29 Mar 10

You are again uttering the truth , RL. Good Communications in any language is difficult and is a hard-earned skill under-appreciated by lots of people .
.
I also think all vagaries should be banned entirely from entering within the precincts of the Town boundaries , like they used to do in the olde days. They cause nothing but trouble.
.
Nuances should return to the cloud-cuckoo lands from where they originated.
.
And contradictions - well some times I think they are a bad thing , then a good thing , then a bad thing again and then .... I can't seem to come to a logical long-lasting decision about them at all. Is it me ?
.
Aren't words wonderful things (but dangerous in the wrong hands). Do you think they should be licenced.
.
They seem to cause a lot of trouble in the world if used foolishly or with evil intent , don't you think ?
.
Regards.

J B Blackett says...
8:09pm Mon 29 Mar 10

Plus ça change... wrote:
Raise some medieval scaffolding to paint your ceiling from and you may get that famous local painter 'Ivorangelo da Wicombi' to come and assist.

You could paint all the faces of all the BFreeP bloggers and posters on your ceiling - with salient features of the town - could be worth a fortune in 600 years' time.

Don't forget a small image of a Roman villa - bottom right.

( Ooops, back to Latin....!! )
The week before last I saw the film ' Don't Look Now' with Donald Sutherland and Julie Christie on TV - not actually with them you understand - they were in the film - nearly all the time in fact, especially in the naughty bits.

I wasn't in the film I'm glad to say because of the sad start and sadder end (the middle was not particularly cheerful come to think of it )
.
However and apropos - Mr Sutherland was engaged in restoring a church roof painting (I think) in a old Venetian church and needed the aforementioned-type scaffolding to carry it out. In view of the sad , spooky and gothic nature of the film , the idea of erecting such a construction, has become in my mind a daunting and onerous project with such terrible and horrifying consequences that I can't even bear to think about it !
.
But nevertheless I thank you for your well-meaning advice.
.
Regards

Plus ça change... says...
11:23am Tue 30 Mar 10

I just hoped that if 'Ivorangelo' was busy painting a ceiling....

J B Blackett says...
11:29am Tue 30 Mar 10

I think he/she/it has reached his/her ultimate ceiling already, don't you ? - blogging on the BFP.
.
T reckon he/she/it dresses up in a little bright red duffle coat with toggles.
.
Cheerio, I'll toggle off now

Rebecca Leon says...
1:05pm Tue 30 Mar 10

JBB: Indeed! Language should be licensed, removed from an individual if ill-used and you should have a 'language record' that you have to be transparent about when looking for work/friends/partner
s once you've committed a 'word crime'.
:
There could be degrees of severity for word crimes: misspelling of easily misspelled words (low level); Americanisation (high level); utter nonsense, written or spoken (word rationing or something.
:
You'd be issued with just basic vocabulary and only progress once you could use those words correctly...
:
Maybe a 'protector of the word' dwarf in a red raincoat would assigned to you for that period of rehabilitation...
:
There's a Martin Amis novel and a great deal of the story depends on this writer's wife always using the wrong expression. 'He can't write for toffee' is the phrase I think.

wisegirl says...
10:19pm Tue 30 Mar 10

I am totally impressed by the knowledge and expertise some of Rebecca's readers have, you are all so educated and interesting, truly.
. Surely the crux is that when people use some faddy (even if it is the original spelling that hasn't been used for a century) spelling or contrived manner of speaking that isn't genuine or natural but put on, it's annoying and fake and that I think we all agree is really annoying! I think regarding televiosn presenters and even film stars, there are so few genuinely interesting people around, everyone is contriving to sound more than they are. In the words of Alexander O'Neal circa 1988 'You're a fake, no doubt about it!'

Rebecca Leon says...
9:21am Wed 31 Mar 10

Me too, wisegirl! (In being impressed by the readers.)
:
I think you've hit the nail on the head - it's a symptom of dull people trying to sound interesting.
:
What to do? If young people at school think learning's dull, why bother? You can always invent your own idiosyncrasies a little later!
:
If you can't convince, confuse.
:
And idiots like Robbie Williams singing nonsense like, 'I get hysterical, historical, love is only clinical...' (or what ever word he found to match the previous rubbish) should be made to do community service for their crimes.


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The perfect wife and mother, Rebecca runs a home, a bad temper and is working on her novel. She enjoys photography, playing the piano and likes almost anything that's out of fashion and uncool. She lives in Amersham with her husband and youngest child (aged ten). Her eldest, now 27, lives and works in Buckinghamshire.

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