Skinny models are OK (From Bucks Free Press)
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The perfect wife and mother, Rebecca runs a home, a village magazine and is working on her novel. She does not visit the gym or jog but is in amazingly good shape. She enjoys photography, playing the piano and arguing with the TV. She lives in Amersham with her husband and youngest child (aged nine). Her eldest, now 26, lives and works in Buckinghamshire.
Skinny models are OK
11:00am Thursday 29th September 2011
It was on a shopping hour in Tesco.
By the child’s clothing section is a large picture of a child’s face. To me, the child has the beginning of jowls – a slightly overweight look. At about 18 months.
Now while chubby babies are often considered sweet, over-chubby ones aren’t.
A parent looking at this image might think, ‘Aww, looks just like my little one – my three stone toddler.’ Is this good?
What the media portrays does influence us. We seem to think if it’s on a poster/on TV/in a magazine, it’s OK. It’s been socially/psychologically tested and passed or something like that.
So while the skinny (female adult) model has long been thought of as damaging, the overweight-looking child is used as a model for ‘normal child’ in Tesco: ergo, this is what a child should look like. Well, thank goodness mine didn’t.
And as I walk around, there are babies, yes babies in pushchairs being silenced by chocolate and packets of crisps.
As much as skinny models can give us women a sense of failure, surely they serve their purpose in getting some people to ‘think thin’.
It’s not the size we’re aiming for, but the overall look of being fit and healthy. And surely whichever study/professional opinion you use, being overweight and barely able to complete your everyday tasks is not something to recommend.
We know images are manipulated but by portraying people with strong looking bodies, good skin, hair and teeth, without excess fat, they are also saying, ‘This is a good example’.
If fashion and the media were full of overweight people would that make people who needed to lose weight (for health reasons) complacent?
No matter what body shape/trend is promoted, we will feel undermined if we don’t have it.
I just think we could change our feeling of being insulted by skinny models to one of being shown a good example by them. And that too means not taking them too seriously.
Skinny women are one thing; fat babies are another and it speaks of getting diet wrong from the very start. It has many undertones – of neglect, dietary ignorance and misconceptions. Which going by the news, should cause us outrage. More than a grown up who’s been ‘improved’ on a computer programme.
That to me suggests unsound ethics and a wish to turn our backs on the issue of diet and health where it has a lifelong impact (on our children) in favour of a mild rebellion against slim women wearing clothes we can’t.
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Comments(21)
NicM
says...
1:08pm Thu 29 Sep 11
I agree with Trip - skinny is underweight and is as much a danger to health as being overweight, particularly for the very young and very old.
The example for everyone should be someone within the approved BMI range, with healthy skin, teeth and hair.
To suggest skinny is in any way desirable is irresponsible.
KentP
says...
1:41pm Thu 29 Sep 11
.
the number of people in this country with diabetes has near doubled in 15 years - this is an issue which isn't going to just go away without some kind of positive action
demoness the second
says...
9:37pm Thu 29 Sep 11
They do not serve any purpose but to make young girls feel inadequate and try to lose weight.
A size 10-12 is perfectly fine.
Effects of undernutrition....
Suppressed immune system which increases the risk of infection.
Prolonged wound healing.
Fatique - where is all the energy you speak of ?
Depression.
Hair becomes lank and lifeless, skin is dry. Mucus membranes in the mouth are affected and the person is more likely to develop mouth ulcers.
If you do not eat enough, your body goes into starvation mode. It's energy requirement's are less, and it almost thinks it is hibernating. So the person is not hungry. They then become sleepy, depressed and more prone to infection. Periods in women stop, sperm count in men drops.
The cost of malnutrition to the NHS is 13 billion ( NPSA 2005).
1 in 3 people admitted to hospitals are malnourished.(BAPEN 2010)
Yes obesity is a problem. But so is undernutrition and quite frankly this is a very ill researched blog.
Skinny women are also the result of appalling diet Rebecca.
KentP
says...
10:22pm Thu 29 Sep 11
demoness the second wrote:interesting stats D, I did not know that!
No - skinny models are not okay. Skinny models are unhealthy.
They do not serve any purpose but to make young girls feel inadequate and try to lose weight.
A size 10-12 is perfectly fine.
Effects of undernutrition....
Suppressed immune system which increases the risk of infection.
Prolonged wound healing.
Fatique - where is all the energy you speak of ?
Depression.
Hair becomes lank and lifeless, skin is dry. Mucus membranes in the mouth are affected and the person is more likely to develop mouth ulcers.
If you do not eat enough, your body goes into starvation mode. It's energy requirement's are less, and it almost thinks it is hibernating. So the person is not hungry. They then become sleepy, depressed and more prone to infection. Periods in women stop, sperm count in men drops.
The cost of malnutrition to the NHS is 13 billion ( NPSA 2005).
1 in 3 people admitted to hospitals are malnourished.(BAPEN 2010)
Yes obesity is a problem. But so is undernutrition and quite frankly this is a very ill researched blog.
Skinny women are also the result of appalling diet Rebecca.
HonkHonk
says...
10:53pm Thu 29 Sep 11
BTW Rebecca, we were wondering if you would like to join our little Bucks debate community...
http://bucksbanter.p
roboards.com/index.c
gi
:)
NicM
says...
12:51pm Fri 30 Sep 11
Trip
says...
1:55pm Fri 30 Sep 11
s6blr
says...
11:45am Sat 1 Oct 11
He should probably put his house in order over tampering his column a few weeks ago first.
Pot. Kettle.
Rebecca Leon
says...
11:05am Sun 2 Oct 11
:
NicM: I take your point. This does happen.
:
Are models actually malnourished? Or do they eat well but just not very much? I think malnutrition would look ghastly in a photograph. Well, it does...
:
HonkHonk - I'll visit and see what's happening on that sire. If it's full of 'opinionated, arrogant, snobby' people like me, no thanks!
:
s6blr - This isn't Ivor's post...
:
Doesn't s/he allow comments any more?
:
With all due respect, he gets enough visits without people posting on other contributor's departments...
demoness the second
says...
3:22pm Sun 2 Oct 11
Which is really very funny.
Not for you though ;)
But to come back to your original point. Most models I would imagine have a BMI of less than 18.5. That is borderline malnutrition.
I am very concerned ( and I am not being flip) that you really think that these very skinny models are healthy.
This link is as far back as 2000 but it is very pertinent.
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/769290.stm
And then there is this sad case of a model who died of complications due to malnutrition
http://www.nytimes.c
om/2006/11/20/world/
americas/20iht-model
s.3604439.html
As I said - a very ill researched blog. Being too thin is not good - it is not something to encourage and it is as bad as being too fat.
Rebecca Leon
says...
2:07pm Mon 3 Oct 11
:
When I say skinny, I don't mean bony. They're not all like that. Maybe the catwalk ones. Not sure who's the skinniest.
:
I mean slender I suppose. But nowadays we either talk about skinny or obese; this is our own dumbed down vocabulary to talk about body sizes.
:
Really for the slender models who are maybe naturally that way and are not at the height of their game (do they get skinnier as they get richer?) I approve.
:
And I don't know how much these women really do influence real people as I've said before.
:
There's a very large number of people who are overweight and still eat junk. So the correlation is feeble at best.
:
Have you read the NY Times article? I think they've taken a broader, more intelligent approach.
:
There are statements like, 'The determining factors, they say, are biological and psychological.'
:
And, 'specialists warn that the focus on fashion implies that the illnesses are primarily caused by the desire to look like a model.'
:
I think those who are in horror of seeing a thin model because it will make girls anorexic/bulimic and consequently die are blinkering themselves to more complex contributory factors.
:
Why aren't I anorexic then? Or my sister? And why have I just polished off a bag of toffee popcorn?
:
Women's magazines were full of busty models with sleek long hair while I was growing up; they did NOT make me go and get breast implants or have my hair straightened.
Iris
says...
3:00pm Mon 3 Oct 11
Iris
says...
3:05pm Mon 3 Oct 11
demoness the second wrote:Just to add to this; you can be underweight and well-nourished, just as you can appear healthy and be malnurished. Not that this sheds any light on the rambling article!
I am a little worried that someone may think that you are Ivor Rebecca.
Which is really very funny.
Not for you though ;)
But to come back to your original point. Most models I would imagine have a BMI of less than 18.5. That is borderline malnutrition.
I am very concerned ( and I am not being flip) that you really think that these very skinny models are healthy.
This link is as far back as 2000 but it is very pertinent.
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/769290.stm
And then there is this sad case of a model who died of complications due to malnutrition
http://www.nytimes.c
om/2006/11/20/world/
americas/20iht-model
s.3604439.html
As I said - a very ill researched blog. Being too thin is not good - it is not something to encourage and it is as bad as being too fat.
Rebecca Leon
says...
6:57pm Mon 3 Oct 11
:
We shared first a petri dish, then went under the microscope to see if our cells had multiplied, then got dumped in a test tube.
:
The test tube wasn't clinically clean so there were particles of another life form clinging to the sides.
:
They removed us from the test tube after we'd grown enough spores and divided us.
:
But alas, no one can verify what that life form was that contaminated us...
:
The scientist in charge being lazy and not properly qualified and for want of a better name called us 'bloggers'.
:
I think that's an acronym for 'biologically lazy old germs getting every reader seething'...
:
I hope this helps.
demoness the second
says...
9:33pm Mon 3 Oct 11
Iris wrote:That of course is spot on. An obese person can actually show clinical signs of malnutrition if they have been ill and lost too much weight very quickly.
demoness the second wrote:Just to add to this; you can be underweight and well-nourished, just as you can appear healthy and be malnurished. Not that this sheds any light on the rambling article!
I am a little worried that someone may think that you are Ivor Rebecca.
Which is really very funny.
Not for you though ;)
But to come back to your original point. Most models I would imagine have a BMI of less than 18.5. That is borderline malnutrition.
I am very concerned ( and I am not being flip) that you really think that these very skinny models are healthy.
This link is as far back as 2000 but it is very pertinent.
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/769290.stm
And then there is this sad case of a model who died of complications due to malnutrition
http://www.nytimes.c
om/2006/11/20/world/
americas/20iht-model
s.3604439.html
As I said - a very ill researched blog. Being too thin is not good - it is not something to encourage and it is as bad as being too fat.
demoness the second
says...
9:37pm Mon 3 Oct 11
Also there are young women out there who are that impressionable and who will diet to try and look like their idols.
Not everyone is as sensible and grounded as you and your sister.
Anorexia is complex and is all about lack of self esteem, wanting to be someone else.
IF people were not worried,then why the banning of size zero models?
JamWheel
says...
11:13am Tue 4 Oct 11
I am 6'1" and weigh 195lbs (or 88.9kg) and am classed by BMI as being overweight (with a BMI of 25.7). My body fat % is 14.9 (more or less in the middle of the healthy body fat % range for my age). I am not overweight.
Body fat percentage is what should be used in conjunction with height / age etc. but it is harder to measure so the NHS can't be bothered I would assume.
I don't think skinny models should be what to aim for but certainly the UK's 'average' person isn't either. Given the growing amount of obesity in the country, that 'average' is being dragged up and up to something quite unhealthy.
Using _healthy_ models (not necessarily skinny) is the answer as that is what we should all be aiming for.
Skinny isn't necessarily synonymous with being unhealthy by the way. Most distance runners would be considered skinny (certainly I would consider them so) and they are clearly fit and healthy individuals.
Rebecca Leon
says...
10:10am Thu 6 Oct 11
:
I don't think I was saying 'use malnourished, underweight people to show off clothes'.
:
I took exception to what I perceived as an overweight toddler on a poster.
:
And as I said, we should be aiming for a healthy look.
:
I think a 'skinny' model represents exercise, good diet (more than just carrots and quinoa), the right amount of sleep, little or preferably no alcohol...
:
Aaahh, in an ideal world...
:
And Demoness I think 'skinny' isn't just very slim (some people are naturally very slender) but would mean someone without a huge belly, arms, thighs and hands.
:
But perhaps I err on the side of too slim than too large anyway. We all have our biases and preferences. And I'm afraid I do feel OK seeing slender girls in nice clothes.
:
You comments about the complexities are right: it's too complex to blame one industry's obsession with 'skinny'.
:
So surely being up in arms about some nobody giving an opinion on them is futile too.
:
What can we do to give our (mainly) daughters self-esteem and celebrate who they are and what they have?
:
That possibly is too complex and difficult to tackle so the easy target is 'skinny models'. Pah!
demoness the second
says...
8:44pm Thu 6 Oct 11
When I think of skinny, I think of this definition ....
skinny adj (skinnier, skinniest) 1 similar to or like skin. 2 said of a person or animal: very thin; emaciated
So that was why I responded like I did,
Therefore going on my definition, I would argue that very underweight people cannot be healthy. I was concerned that you seemed to think that it was a good thing to be too thin than too fat and it isn't.
Someone without a huge belly, thighs etc would be slim in my book. NOT skinny. ( Mind you, define what huge is and what you are measuring it against).
You rhapsodise on the one hand about how much nicer slimmer women look in clothes and then ask how we can give our daughters self-esteem and celebrate who they are and what they have.
Well perhaps not celebrating body size would be a start.Perhaps encouraging them to have a healthy attitude to food and exercise would be another good thing and perhaps not making them feel guilty if they are not a size 8 would be another.
Rebecca Leon
says...
9:06am Fri 7 Oct 11
:
But... self-esteem has nothing to do with body size.
:
People (principally girls, but I'm aware that males do suffer from eating disorders albeit on a smaller scale) use food as a weapon against themselves AS A RESULT of psychological vulnerability.
:
So focusing on bodies at all is futile as you say.
:
When a child's upset in her pushchair and Mummy or Daddy don't have the time/ability to comfort with love and words and emotion, shoving a milky bar in the little one's mouth is the start of the whole sick process.
:
The child learns that distress is (momentarily) relieved by (bad) food. She comforts itself by silencing the crying and filling the blood with sugar. All her life.
:
Same with alcohol.
:
So food and bodies are just the physical manifestation of something which the fashion industry isn't responsible for: lazy/under-informed parenting.
:
We link eating disorders to skinny models and I know you're right that girls will follow their icons.
:
But it's wrong to blame the media for eating disorders.
:
And it stops us looking at the more costly, long-term solutions which involve education, child welfare, the food industry (that's been conveniently left out of it) and mental health (inextricably linked to self-esteem).
:
And let's be frank, I didn't 'rhapsodise' about smaller sized models... I said I was OK with them.
:
A bit long-winded but I feel strongly about this...
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The perfect wife and mother, Rebecca runs a home, a bad temper and is working on her novel. She enjoys photography, playing the piano and likes almost anything that's out of fashion and uncool. She lives in Amersham with her husband and youngest child (aged ten). Her eldest, now 27, lives and works in Buckinghamshire.
Trip says...
11:31am Thu 29 Sep 11
Fat children are a difficult one though, some kids are fat until puberty, then they grow and gain a healthier looking figure, and some just get fatter.