Wycombe from A-Z: O is for Octagon

1:33am Sunday 5th August 2012 in Your Say By ivor

The Octagon in 2001 The Octagon in 2001

Once upon a time Wycombe really was a historic market down.

Back in the good old days there were very few tall buildings in the town centre and the streets had been relatively unchanged for hundreds of years.

When it came to shopping the town centre was full of individual businesses each of which specialised in a particular type of merchandise and they were nearly all owned by local business people.

I started this blog with the words 'once up on a time' however the scene that I went on to describe would be familiar to people living in Wycombe as recent as the mid 1960's.

The 60's saw great change in our country indeed the post-war era was one where modern thinking and ideas overtook the safe and steady lifestyle of the past.

Shopping was another area which changed in that decade. The supermarket chains we know today started in infiltrate the towns and Wycombe was no exception.

Wycombe also embraced the new modern thinking and wonders such as the Abbey Way flyover and Newlands car park were constructed.

A shopping centre was also built in the town centre to bring the modern arcade style of retail to our historic market town.

Of course Wycombe was already full of buildings so the decision was taken to pull down some historic buildings in streets such as White Hart Street, Paul's Row and the surrounding area to clear space for a shopping centre.

Constructed in the late 1960's and officially opened in the early 70's Wycombe's Octagon centre brought our retail facilities into the modern age.

With the new centre came the concept of self-service rather than the traditional personal service offered by the trusty shopkeepers.

Shoppers could travel into town by bus or car and arrive straight in the shopping precincts.

At the centre of the Octagon was a large open space with an eight sided octagonal motif in the floor. Surrounding the motif was a large chemist and the legendary Murray's department store.

Murray's was the first large scale department store in our town centre however the business pre-dated the Octagon. Sadly it closed in 1985 after just fifteen years as the centre piece store in the Ocatgon.

I wonder who can remember any of the other notable businesses there such as Pat's Flowers, Brighter Homes or the Southern Electric shop?


Perhaps you remember the stone plinths and ramps that used to surround the Sainsbury's supermarket?


The floor of the centre was paved in dark engineering bricks which gave a most marvellous atmosphere and texture to walk on. Sadly the bricks were removed in the 1990's and replaced with tiles.


The Octagon may have brought Wycombe in the the modern shopping age but at what cost?
Lots of our historic buildings were demolished and our town has never been the same since.


Was the loss of our towns historic nature too much of a price to pay? I think so. We would have been better if large shopping centres had never come to Wycombe.

What do you think?

LINKS (All from the Sharing Wycombe's Old Photographs site):
1. The Octagon Floor Motif

2. Murrays

3. A supermarket in the Ocatgon

4. The chemist in the centre of the Octagon

5. A shopping mall in the Octagon

6. Pats Flowers

7. Shopping centres don't come much better than this

8. A queue outside Murrays

9. Demolition work to create the Octagon

Comments (31)

1:52am Sun 5 Aug 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

Got to post first
The 60's saw great change in our country indeed the post-war era was one where modern thinking and ideas overtook the safe and steady lifestyle of the past.


Did this safe and steady lifestyle include the two world wars?
Got to post first [quote]The 60's saw great change in our country indeed the post-war era was one where modern thinking and ideas overtook the safe and steady lifestyle of the past. [/quote] Did this safe and steady lifestyle include the two world wars? ImpeturbableLawrence

1:54am Sun 5 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:52am
~
Yes, it did. Despite the wars the face of Wycombe changed very little.
Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:52am ~ Yes, it did. Despite the wars the face of Wycombe changed very little. ivor

1:56am Sun 5 Aug 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

There used to be a local spraycan artist called 'Zorro' who produced graffiti paintings or wall art of some beauty - he put a mural on the hoardings outside Murray's when it shut.


I wonder what happened to 'Zorro'.
There used to be a local spraycan artist called 'Zorro' who produced graffiti paintings or wall art of some beauty - he put a mural on the hoardings outside Murray's when it shut. I wonder what happened to 'Zorro'. ImpeturbableLawrence

1:57am Sun 5 Aug 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

I just clicked on 'like' for your post ivor - I see you have done the same for me - thanks.
I just clicked on 'like' for your post ivor - I see you have done the same for me - thanks. ImpeturbableLawrence

2:08am Sun 5 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:56am
~
It was a sad day when Murray's shut.
~
I do not remember 'Zorro'.
Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:56am ~ It was a sad day when Murray's shut. ~ I do not remember 'Zorro'. ivor

2:08am Sun 5 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:57am
~
Thank you for up-voting my post too!
Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:57am ~ Thank you for up-voting my post too! ivor

12:14pm Sun 5 Aug 12

Edna_Welthorpe_ says...

Ivor by Numbers

1. ‘Once upon a time’ – start how you mean to go on: refer to the old days that never existed, like Sleeping Beauty’s castle.
2. ‘Back in the old days’ – really hammer the point home. Readers must force themselves to travel back in time here.
3. Now it’s time for some faux-reveries about the High Street that are not so much reveries but statements a ten year old could tell you by looking at an old photograph.
4. Pinpoint the 1960s as where everything began to go wrong. You know, women’s liberation, mass immigration, education reforms, etc. Oh, for that steady lifestyle to return!
5. Use words like ‘infiltrate’ to imply Wycombe has been poisoned by the passing of time and development of human history. Why can’t things stay the same when they were so obviously better?
6. Contradict oneself. The 60s were bad socially, but the architecture? Magnificent! Brutalist architecture showed vision and a new feature, which Ivor actually hates.
7. Be sad that some old buildings were demolished to make way for a new ‘arcade style of shopping’, thus single-handedly destroying good customer service, but still express sadness when a shop within this new complex closes down. (Underlying all this: too much self-service these days, and complexes are doomed to failure and not owned by local people).
8. ‘Do you remember…’? Settle down, kids.
9. Pose a hollow moral question: ‘At what cost?’ There is, of course, no answer to this, but it’s time to wrap up.
10. Include a list of old photographs that make you question whether Ivor was actually there at all.
Ivor by Numbers 1. ‘Once upon a time’ – start how you mean to go on: refer to the old days that never existed, like Sleeping Beauty’s castle. 2. ‘Back in the old days’ – really hammer the point home. Readers must force themselves to travel back in time here. 3. Now it’s time for some faux-reveries about the High Street that are not so much reveries but statements a ten year old could tell you by looking at an old photograph. 4. Pinpoint the 1960s as where everything began to go wrong. You know, women’s liberation, mass immigration, education reforms, etc. Oh, for that steady lifestyle to return! 5. Use words like ‘infiltrate’ to imply Wycombe has been poisoned by the passing of time and development of human history. Why can’t things stay the same when they were so obviously better? 6. Contradict oneself. The 60s were bad socially, but the architecture? Magnificent! Brutalist architecture showed vision and a new feature, which Ivor actually hates. 7. Be sad that some old buildings were demolished to make way for a new ‘arcade style of shopping’, thus single-handedly destroying good customer service, but still express sadness when a shop within this new complex closes down. (Underlying all this: too much self-service these days, and complexes are doomed to failure and not owned by local people). 8. ‘Do you remember…’? Settle down, kids. 9. Pose a hollow moral question: ‘At what cost?’ There is, of course, no answer to this, but it’s time to wrap up. 10. Include a list of old photographs that make you question whether Ivor was actually there at all. Edna_Welthorpe_

12:15pm Sun 5 Aug 12

Edna_Welthorpe_ says...

*new future
*new future Edna_Welthorpe_

12:44pm Sun 5 Aug 12

Old Rebel says...

Looking through the photo links, so many memories.
I bought my wedding flowers from Pat's Flowers.
I also found myself singing the Richard Shops advert song - "Richard Shops are filled with all the pretty things, soft and lovely pretty things to wear........
LOL I know I must get out more!!!!!
Looking through the photo links, so many memories. I bought my wedding flowers from Pat's Flowers. I also found myself singing the Richard Shops advert song - "Richard Shops are filled with all the pretty things, soft and lovely pretty things to wear........ LOL I know I must get out more!!!!! Old Rebel

12:54pm Sun 5 Aug 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

Murray's - LEGENDARY?
Murray's - LEGENDARY? ImpeturbableLawrence

1:03pm Sun 5 Aug 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

Once upon a time … Back in the good old days … modern thinking and ideas overtook the safe and steady lifestyle of the past … With the new centre came the concept of self-service rather than the traditional personal service offered by the trusty shopkeepers. … the legendary Murray's department store … Sadly it closed in 1985 … Perhaps you remember … a most marvellous atmosphere and texture ... Sadly the bricks were removed … our town has never been the same ... Was the loss of our towns historic nature too much of a price to pay? I think so.


All this is really a baby boomer’s lament for the lost world of childhood I can't help thinking.
[quote] Once upon a time … Back in the good old days … modern thinking and ideas overtook the safe and steady lifestyle of the past … With the new centre came the concept of self-service rather than the traditional personal service offered by the trusty shopkeepers. … the legendary Murray's department store … Sadly it closed in 1985 … Perhaps you remember … a most marvellous atmosphere and texture ... Sadly the bricks were removed … our town has never been the same ... Was the loss of our towns historic nature too much of a price to pay? I think so. [/quote] All this is really a baby boomer’s lament for the lost world of childhood I can't help thinking. ImpeturbableLawrence

1:14pm Sun 5 Aug 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
There used to be a local spraycan artist called 'Zorro' who produced graffiti paintings or wall art of some beauty - he put a mural on the hoardings outside Murray's when it shut.


I wonder what happened to 'Zorro'.
I was told he was a young black man - don't know if it's true. If it was I suppose he has a conventional job now or maybe he's gone to the land of his forbears and the warm climate of the West Indies.
[quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: There used to be a local spraycan artist called 'Zorro' who produced graffiti paintings or wall art of some beauty - he put a mural on the hoardings outside Murray's when it shut. I wonder what happened to 'Zorro'.[/p][/quote]I was told he was a young black man - don't know if it's true. If it was I suppose he has a conventional job now or maybe he's gone to the land of his forbears and the warm climate of the West Indies. ImpeturbableLawrence

1:15pm Sun 5 Aug 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
ImpeturbableLawrence wrote:
There used to be a local spraycan artist called 'Zorro' who produced graffiti paintings or wall art of some beauty - he put a mural on the hoardings outside Murray's when it shut.


I wonder what happened to 'Zorro'.
I was told he was a young black man - don't know if it's true. If it was I suppose he has a conventional job now or maybe he's gone to the land of his forbears and the warm climate of the West Indies.
I hope he doesn't ler his children own spray cans.
[quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]ImpeturbableLawrence[/bold] wrote: There used to be a local spraycan artist called 'Zorro' who produced graffiti paintings or wall art of some beauty - he put a mural on the hoardings outside Murray's when it shut. I wonder what happened to 'Zorro'.[/p][/quote]I was told he was a young black man - don't know if it's true. If it was I suppose he has a conventional job now or maybe he's gone to the land of his forbears and the warm climate of the West Indies.[/p][/quote]I hope he doesn't ler his children own spray cans. ImpeturbableLawrence

2:07pm Sun 5 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of Edna_Welthorpe_ at 12:14pm
~
I am not sure what your comment is trying to prove?
Re the comments of Edna_Welthorpe_ at 12:14pm ~ I am not sure what your comment is trying to prove? ivor

2:07pm Sun 5 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of Edna_Welthorpe_ at 12:15pm
~
Indeed the 60's did give the promise of a bright new future.
Re the comments of Edna_Welthorpe_ at 12:15pm ~ Indeed the 60's did give the promise of a bright new future. ivor

2:07pm Sun 5 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of Old Rebel at 12:44pm
~
We had some lovely shops in the Wycombe of old and there were far more independent traders in the town back then which I think was a good thing.
Re the comments of Old Rebel at 12:44pm ~ We had some lovely shops in the Wycombe of old and there were far more independent traders in the town back then which I think was a good thing. ivor

2:07pm Sun 5 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 12:54pm
~
Indeed Murray's was legendary.
Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 12:54pm ~ Indeed Murray's was legendary. ivor

2:07pm Sun 5 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:03pm
~
Nobody's childhood is ever a 'lost world'....
Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:03pm ~ Nobody's childhood is ever a 'lost world'.... ivor

2:07pm Sun 5 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:14pm
~
I wonder what job he has?
Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:14pm ~ I wonder what job he has? ivor

2:07pm Sun 5 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:15pm
~
Modern children would probably spend most of their time indoors playing computer games....
Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:15pm ~ Modern children would probably spend most of their time indoors playing computer games.... ivor

6:28pm Sun 5 Aug 12

g-wagen says...

Thanks for the description and posting up the links to the old pics.
I was a young child when the octagon looked like this - my mum worked in murrays on a Saturday and I remember waiting in my dads car outside our price (I think it was the white one - our price classical) for her to come out of work from the staff exit where the bank now is.
I also remember walking up to Boots the chemist and admiring the big coloured bottles in the window. To be honest the whole place had a very oppresive feel (and feint smell of wee) and was actually pretty scary for a young child. I have a vivid memory of the punks sat on the brickwork / tiled chairs outside boots (I really wanted to be one of them and later sort of fulfilled this ambition!)
Most of all I remember being about 5 years old and walking through the market to visit the hospital and being scared by the street cleaning vehicle stored under the flyover!!
To be honest I think that the revamp in the late 80's / 90's (when they fitted the hang gliders in the octagon) really brightened the place up and was a real improvement over the darker scheme.

P.S. on photo 4 you've missed out the "h" at the start so the link doesn't work ;)
Thanks for the description and posting up the links to the old pics. I was a young child when the octagon looked like this - my mum worked in murrays on a Saturday and I remember waiting in my dads car outside our price (I think it was the white one - our price classical) for her to come out of work from the staff exit where the bank now is. I also remember walking up to Boots the chemist and admiring the big coloured bottles in the window. To be honest the whole place had a very oppresive feel (and feint smell of wee) and was actually pretty scary for a young child. I have a vivid memory of the punks sat on the brickwork / tiled chairs outside boots (I really wanted to be one of them and later sort of fulfilled this ambition!) Most of all I remember being about 5 years old and walking through the market to visit the hospital and being scared by the street cleaning vehicle stored under the flyover!! To be honest I think that the revamp in the late 80's / 90's (when they fitted the hang gliders in the octagon) really brightened the place up and was a real improvement over the darker scheme. P.S. on photo 4 you've missed out the "h" at the start so the link doesn't work ;) g-wagen

6:32pm Sun 5 Aug 12

g-wagen says...

*I ment you've added to the start of the link rather than missed off the h - appologies for my smart-arse fail!!
*I ment you've added to the start of the link rather than missed off the h - appologies for my smart-arse fail!! g-wagen

3:47am Mon 6 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of g-wagen at 6:28pm
~
Indeed I remember 'Our Price' and I still have many of the records that I
I purchased from there.
~
I remember the big coloured bottles in the chemists window too. I always wondered what the liquid in them actually was. In those days the chemist had two sets of doors, one fronting the centre of the Octagon (show in link 4) and another round the corner close to the supermarket.
~
As you say the punks did sit on the brick slabs outside the chemist and the supermarket but were the punks any different from today’s youngsters with hoodies on?
~
Do you remember the shopping trolleys lined up outside the supermarket? Or perhaps the automatic door the supermarket had which was operated with a pressure pad when you stepped on it?
~
Thank you for pointing out the mistake with the link, I have just corrected it.
Re the comments of g-wagen at 6:28pm ~ Indeed I remember 'Our Price' and I still have many of the records that I I purchased from there. ~ I remember the big coloured bottles in the chemists window too. I always wondered what the liquid in them actually was. In those days the chemist had two sets of doors, one fronting the centre of the Octagon (show in link 4) and another round the corner close to the supermarket. ~ As you say the punks did sit on the brick slabs outside the chemist and the supermarket but were the punks any different from today’s youngsters with hoodies on? ~ Do you remember the shopping trolleys lined up outside the supermarket? Or perhaps the automatic door the supermarket had which was operated with a pressure pad when you stepped on it? ~ Thank you for pointing out the mistake with the link, I have just corrected it. ivor

3:47am Mon 6 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of g-wagen at 6:28pm
~
No worries, the link should be working now.
Re the comments of g-wagen at 6:28pm ~ No worries, the link should be working now. ivor

11:30am Mon 6 Aug 12

smuggles says...

"Once upon a time Wycombe really was a historic market down."

No, Wycombe is still a historic market town, or have I missed something? When did Wycombe cease to be a historic market town? Have you invented a time machine and gone back to stop a market being established in Wycombe?
"Once upon a time Wycombe really was a historic market down." No, Wycombe is still a historic market town, or have I missed something? When did Wycombe cease to be a historic market town? Have you invented a time machine and gone back to stop a market being established in Wycombe? smuggles

3:28pm Mon 6 Aug 12

I Love Ivor says...

Great blog Ivor, brings back some great memories. Used to love the outside of J Sainsbury in the Octagon and how the Octagon used to be.

Thank you for doing this episode.
Great blog Ivor, brings back some great memories. Used to love the outside of J Sainsbury in the Octagon and how the Octagon used to be. Thank you for doing this episode. I Love Ivor

10:16pm Mon 6 Aug 12

ImpeturbableLawrence says...

ivor wrote:
Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:03pm
~
Nobody's childhood is ever a 'lost world'....
I think it is - we used to live there and we cannot return - even the scenes where it took place is different.
[quote][p][bold]ivor[/bold] wrote: Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 1:03pm ~ Nobody's childhood is ever a 'lost world'....[/p][/quote]I think it is - we used to live there and we cannot return - even the scenes where it took place is different. ImpeturbableLawrence

12:00am Tue 7 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of smuggles at 11:30am
~
Indeed Wycombe still is classed as a historic town but dut to the demolition of so many of our lovely old buildings it is not as historic as it once was.
~
I only wish a time machine was at my disposal as I would set the dial to 1969 and return to the Wycombe town centre to experience the joys of the Octagon and all its shops including Murray's.
Re the comments of smuggles at 11:30am ~ Indeed Wycombe still is classed as a historic town but dut to the demolition of so many of our lovely old buildings it is not as historic as it once was. ~ I only wish a time machine was at my disposal as I would set the dial to 1969 and return to the Wycombe town centre to experience the joys of the Octagon and all its shops including Murray's. ivor

12:01am Tue 7 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of I Love Ivor at 3:28pm
~
Indeed I loved the scene outside the supermarket. If only I could travel back to see the Octagon in all its glory when it had just been built.
~
I am pleased to hear that you enjoyed this blog.
Re the comments of I Love Ivor at 3:28pm ~ Indeed I loved the scene outside the supermarket. If only I could travel back to see the Octagon in all its glory when it had just been built. ~ I am pleased to hear that you enjoyed this blog. ivor

12:01am Tue 7 Aug 12

ivor says...

Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 10:16pm
~
Well I think that childhood is never a 'lost world'. Almost every night I dream of Wycombe as it used to be years ago and sometimes, if I am lucky, I go right back to when yours truly was a mere youngster....
Re the comments of ImpeturbableLawrence at 10:16pm ~ Well I think that childhood is never a 'lost world'. Almost every night I dream of Wycombe as it used to be years ago and sometimes, if I am lucky, I go right back to when yours truly was a mere youngster.... ivor

1:38pm Tue 7 Aug 12

smuggles says...

ivor wrote:
Re the comments of smuggles at 11:30am ~ Indeed Wycombe still is classed as a historic town but dut to the demolition of so many of our lovely old buildings it is not as historic as it once was. ~ I only wish a time machine was at my disposal as I would set the dial to 1969 and return to the Wycombe town centre to experience the joys of the Octagon and all its shops including Murray's.
tw@t
[quote][p][bold]ivor[/bold] wrote: Re the comments of smuggles at 11:30am ~ Indeed Wycombe still is classed as a historic town but dut to the demolition of so many of our lovely old buildings it is not as historic as it once was. ~ I only wish a time machine was at my disposal as I would set the dial to 1969 and return to the Wycombe town centre to experience the joys of the Octagon and all its shops including Murray's.[/p][/quote]tw@t smuggles

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