'PCC results show people have lost faith in Lib Dems'

7:00am Monday 19th November 2012 in News By Andy Carswell

Tim Starkey Tim Starkey

THE runner-up in the Thames Valley Police and Crime Commissioner poll said the voting patterns show people have lost faith in the Liberal Democrats.

Tim Starkey quit the party last year in protest at their policies since forming a coalition with the Conservatives at the last General Election.

The Chalfont St Giles resident defected to Labour and this week finished second behind Tory Anthony Stansfeld at the polls.

But he took a swipe at the party he used to be a member of, saying voters felt let down by Nick Clegg's party.

The Lib Dems' John Orrell Howson finished fourth in the Police and Crime Commissioner poll, behind Independent candidate Geoff Howard.

When asked if this was a reflection of future voting patterns at county council and General Election level, Mr Starkey said: "I think so, yes. There are a number of areas, such as Reading, where Labour were a long way ahead of the Conservatives, which indicates there's a loss of confidence in the coalition government.

"The Lib Dem vote collapsed in Wycombe from a very strong second. That will be reflected in the county council elections next year and maybe the General Election beyond that.

"Places like Reading and Milton Keynes will be going from the Conservatives.

"The Lib Dem vote has vanished. A lot of people like me feel let down by what they have done in government. People feel very disappointed."

But Wycombe's Lib Dem leader, Cllr Trevor Snaith, disagreed with Mr Starkey's comments.

He said: "It's not a reflection of Wycombe, it's a reflection of the whole area.

"It's what we expected in this area. It's a Conservative area and the other parties have to work very hard at getting their voters out.

"At county council elections people vote based on known people that they see in the area. They vote at county and district on the quality of the candidate and how good a job they do locally. There's a major difference."

Turnout for the vote was just 13.5 per cent in South Bucks, with Cllr Snaith saying only 25 people turned up to cast their vote at the Wycombe Marsh polling station he was at from 7-10pm.

The Ryemead ward councillor said: "The turnout wasn't unsurprising. There hasn't been the usual mailout you get to promote the party from the centre. The government have had a horror show by not doing the mailout of candidate literature.

"We, locally, took literature out to people so they had stuff from our candidate - that didn't happen across the whole of the police area. I'm disappointed the government didn't spend the time and effort they should have done promoting the candidates."

Reflecting on the result Mr Starkey, who stood as a Parliamentary candidate in the Chesham and Amersham ward as a Lib Dem in 2010, said: "We made a big effort but didn't quite have enough.

"We made a big advance forward - going back to the General Election we were third in the area with 17 per cent of the vote."

Comments (15)

8:12am Mon 19 Nov 12

hm1 says...

This is a joke right? There is nothing but ridicule to be gained from trying to prove anything from "voting" patterns in an election with such a low turn out. There isn't even a mandate for the elected, let alone a platform for anyone to be drawing conclusions from the handful of votes. The farce continues.
This is a joke right? There is nothing but ridicule to be gained from trying to prove anything from "voting" patterns in an election with such a low turn out. There isn't even a mandate for the elected, let alone a platform for anyone to be drawing conclusions from the handful of votes. The farce continues. hm1

8:24am Mon 19 Nov 12

Welwyn Dowd says...

Ridicule? Somewhat less ridiculous to finish second than fourth or fifth.
Ridicule? Somewhat less ridiculous to finish second than fourth or fifth. Welwyn Dowd

8:46am Mon 19 Nov 12

hm1 says...

Welwyn Dowd wrote:
Ridicule? Somewhat less ridiculous to finish second than fourth or fifth.
It is ridiculous to try to politicise a sample which any GCSE maths student would dismiss as worthless!
[quote][p][bold]Welwyn Dowd[/bold] wrote: Ridicule? Somewhat less ridiculous to finish second than fourth or fifth.[/p][/quote]It is ridiculous to try to politicise a sample which any GCSE maths student would dismiss as worthless! hm1

8:56am Mon 19 Nov 12

Darren Hayday says...

86% of people eligible to vote didn’t bother to vote and for very good reasons!

Not a time to try and make cheap party political swipes... The whole set up was a joke in how it was run - a very dark period in our history and also shows that the people are very far disconnected from the politicians.
86% of people eligible to vote didn’t bother to vote and for very good reasons! Not a time to try and make cheap party political swipes... The whole set up was a joke in how it was run - a very dark period in our history and also shows that the people are very far disconnected from the politicians. Darren Hayday

9:00am Mon 19 Nov 12

hm1 says...

Darren Hayday wrote:
86% of people eligible to vote didn’t bother to vote and for very good reasons!

Not a time to try and make cheap party political swipes... The whole set up was a joke in how it was run - a very dark period in our history and also shows that the people are very far disconnected from the politicians.
^^^^^^^ Exactly!
[quote][p][bold]Darren Hayday[/bold] wrote: 86% of people eligible to vote didn’t bother to vote and for very good reasons! Not a time to try and make cheap party political swipes... The whole set up was a joke in how it was run - a very dark period in our history and also shows that the people are very far disconnected from the politicians.[/p][/quote]^^^^^^^ Exactly! hm1

9:16am Mon 19 Nov 12

Welwyn Dowd says...

Just how does one politicise a sample which consists of people making choices between political candidates? I suppose that's one the annoying things about Mr Starkey and all the other people from the Labour Party - they will insist on bringing politics into government. It was the Labour Government that introduced these PCC posts after all. What's that you say? It was David Cameron and Nick Clegg's idea? Are you sure?
Just how does one politicise a sample which consists of people making choices between political candidates? I suppose that's one the annoying things about Mr Starkey and all the other people from the Labour Party - they will insist on bringing politics into government. It was the Labour Government that introduced these PCC posts after all. What's that you say? It was David Cameron and Nick Clegg's idea? Are you sure? Welwyn Dowd

11:35am Mon 19 Nov 12

philbo says...

Welwyn Dowd wrote:
Just how does one politicise a sample which consists of people making choices between political candidates? I suppose that's one the annoying things about Mr Starkey and all the other people from the Labour Party - they will insist on bringing politics into government. It was the Labour Government that introduced these PCC posts after all. What's that you say? It was David Cameron and Nick Clegg's idea? Are you sure?
The problem is that they really should not have been political candidates. The whole idea of having a party-affiliated police commissioner is seriously wrong - the PCC has power to decide on priorities, which may well involve deciding that investigations into local councillors are either a good or a bad idea depending on whether they come from the same party or not.

Fewer than one in five people were "making choices between political candidates" - more than 80% didn't. So trying to derive a political narrative from a trivial sample is either a bit hopeful or simply disingenuous.
[quote][p][bold]Welwyn Dowd[/bold] wrote: Just how does one politicise a sample which consists of people making choices between political candidates? I suppose that's one the annoying things about Mr Starkey and all the other people from the Labour Party - they will insist on bringing politics into government. It was the Labour Government that introduced these PCC posts after all. What's that you say? It was David Cameron and Nick Clegg's idea? Are you sure?[/p][/quote]The problem is that they really should not have been political candidates. The whole idea of having a party-affiliated police commissioner is seriously wrong - the PCC has power to decide on priorities, which may well involve deciding that investigations into local councillors are either a good or a bad idea depending on whether they come from the same party or not. Fewer than one in five people were "making choices between political candidates" - more than 80% didn't. So trying to derive a political narrative from a trivial sample is either a bit hopeful or simply disingenuous. philbo

12:28pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Malc London says...

Well, if this was "a reflection of future voting patterns at county council and General Election level", then the Conservatives will be extremely pleased.

Comfortably winning both the 1st choice and 2nd preferance votes by a decent margin, if reflected nationwide, the Conservatives will have a comfortable majority.

Clearly vindication that the public are supporting the Government.
Well, if this was "a reflection of future voting patterns at county council and General Election level", then the Conservatives will be extremely pleased. Comfortably winning both the 1st choice and 2nd preferance votes by a decent margin, if reflected nationwide, the Conservatives will have a comfortable majority. Clearly vindication that the public are supporting the Government. Malc London

12:58pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Darren Hayday says...

Malc London wrote:
Well, if this was "a reflection of future voting patterns at county council and General Election level", then the Conservatives will be extremely pleased.

Comfortably winning both the 1st choice and 2nd preferance votes by a decent margin, if reflected nationwide, the Conservatives will have a comfortable majority.

Clearly vindication that the public are supporting the Government.
What a load of old tosh!

I would not place a single penny in betting that the Conservatives will be in control of the Government in the next General Election.

I see that more people would vote for independents, I see that the LibDems would be replaced by parties such as UKIP.

The Labour and the Conservative party have controlled this political landscape for far too long and many cannot see a clear difference in either of them anymore. I would not vote for either.
[quote][p][bold]Malc London[/bold] wrote: Well, if this was "a reflection of future voting patterns at county council and General Election level", then the Conservatives will be extremely pleased. Comfortably winning both the 1st choice and 2nd preferance votes by a decent margin, if reflected nationwide, the Conservatives will have a comfortable majority. Clearly vindication that the public are supporting the Government.[/p][/quote]What a load of old tosh! I would not place a single penny in betting that the Conservatives will be in control of the Government in the next General Election. I see that more people would vote for independents, I see that the LibDems would be replaced by parties such as UKIP. The Labour and the Conservative party have controlled this political landscape for far too long and many cannot see a clear difference in either of them anymore. I would not vote for either. Darren Hayday

1:49pm Mon 19 Nov 12

ArnyP_HW says...

Most people I've spoken to didn't even realise until after the results were announced that the candidates were representing political parties. Who knew that local policing was based on political agendas? Stupid me for thinking that policing was based on the law!
Most people I've spoken to didn't even realise until after the results were announced that the candidates were representing political parties. Who knew that local policing was based on political agendas? Stupid me for thinking that policing was based on the law! ArnyP_HW

1:54pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Tim Starkey. says...

Although the Lib Dem decline is plain for all to see, I don't happen to think it's the most important aspect of this election; it's just the only thing the BFP chose to ask me about! The bigger story is about how badly the role of Police and Crime Commissioner has been explained by the government, leading to confusion and apathy. On the question of politicising policing we must be clear what we mean. Decisions over how much of your council tax goes towards policing ARE political in nature, whether decided by the old Police Authority or the new Commissioners.

Where I agree with Philbo, is that the new PCCs must NEVER get involved with operational decisions over who is investigated. That's the road to corruption, whether the PCC is from a political party or not. For those of you worried about "politicisation" I think that is what you will have to watch across the country, whether the incumbent is Tory, Labour or independent.
Although the Lib Dem decline is plain for all to see, I don't happen to think it's the most important aspect of this election; it's just the only thing the BFP chose to ask me about! The bigger story is about how badly the role of Police and Crime Commissioner has been explained by the government, leading to confusion and apathy. On the question of politicising policing we must be clear what we mean. Decisions over how much of your council tax goes towards policing ARE political in nature, whether decided by the old Police Authority or the new Commissioners. Where I agree with Philbo, is that the new PCCs must NEVER get involved with operational decisions over who is investigated. That's the road to corruption, whether the PCC is from a political party or not. For those of you worried about "politicisation" I think that is what you will have to watch across the country, whether the incumbent is Tory, Labour or independent. Tim Starkey.

3:10pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Darren Hayday says...

Tim Starkey. wrote:
Although the Lib Dem decline is plain for all to see, I don't happen to think it's the most important aspect of this election; it's just the only thing the BFP chose to ask me about! The bigger story is about how badly the role of Police and Crime Commissioner has been explained by the government, leading to confusion and apathy. On the question of politicising policing we must be clear what we mean. Decisions over how much of your council tax goes towards policing ARE political in nature, whether decided by the old Police Authority or the new Commissioners.

Where I agree with Philbo, is that the new PCCs must NEVER get involved with operational decisions over who is investigated. That's the road to corruption, whether the PCC is from a political party or not. For those of you worried about "politicisation
" I think that is what you will have to watch across the country, whether the incumbent is Tory, Labour or independent.
Tim, To be honest - I "nearly" voted for you (as you were the only one that had some prior experience)

However the current voting system is heavily one sided in the sense that you live in either a traditional Tory or Labour voting part of the world - so those x2 parties have the money, brand recognition and foot soldiers to go out and knock on doors - push leaflets into letter boxes, etc

Therefore it doesn’t surprise me that the x2 big winners out of all this is the Conservative and the Labour party.

We just so happen in the Thames Valley to be a traditional Tory voting area - so it doesn’t come as any surprise to me personally that they won.

People are fed up with the current system and would have liked to have seen perhaps former senior Police Officers who were not aligned to a mainstream political party or independent candidates that had a relevant background.

It seems as if the political parties take us all for mugs and they know from their databases just where we all live and how we tend to vote - they would then target their key target market and knock on their door, etc

It wouldn’t have mattered if only 1% voted - as long as they got their chap in.

A lot of people that did look into this - just saw it as 'jobs for the boys'.

I even hear that there is a deputy Police Commissioner and that person would be paid around £60k? - is this correct??

At a time of austerity, we didn’t see the point in creating this role - whether from the Labour Party that started it or the Conservative party that carried on running with it.

Also we should have had more information on each candidate and a better calibre of person (who would have come forward if it wasn’t set up in this way)

A terrible shame for democracy.
[quote][p][bold]Tim Starkey.[/bold] wrote: Although the Lib Dem decline is plain for all to see, I don't happen to think it's the most important aspect of this election; it's just the only thing the BFP chose to ask me about! The bigger story is about how badly the role of Police and Crime Commissioner has been explained by the government, leading to confusion and apathy. On the question of politicising policing we must be clear what we mean. Decisions over how much of your council tax goes towards policing ARE political in nature, whether decided by the old Police Authority or the new Commissioners. Where I agree with Philbo, is that the new PCCs must NEVER get involved with operational decisions over who is investigated. That's the road to corruption, whether the PCC is from a political party or not. For those of you worried about "politicisation " I think that is what you will have to watch across the country, whether the incumbent is Tory, Labour or independent.[/p][/quote]Tim, To be honest - I "nearly" voted for you (as you were the only one that had some prior experience) However the current voting system is heavily one sided in the sense that you live in either a traditional Tory or Labour voting part of the world - so those x2 parties have the money, brand recognition and foot soldiers to go out and knock on doors - push leaflets into letter boxes, etc Therefore it doesn’t surprise me that the x2 big winners out of all this is the Conservative and the Labour party. We just so happen in the Thames Valley to be a traditional Tory voting area - so it doesn’t come as any surprise to me personally that they won. People are fed up with the current system and would have liked to have seen perhaps former senior Police Officers who were not aligned to a mainstream political party or independent candidates that had a relevant background. It seems as if the political parties take us all for mugs and they know from their databases just where we all live and how we tend to vote - they would then target their key target market and knock on their door, etc It wouldn’t have mattered if only 1% voted - as long as they got their chap in. A lot of people that did look into this - just saw it as 'jobs for the boys'. I even hear that there is a deputy Police Commissioner and that person would be paid around £60k? - is this correct?? At a time of austerity, we didn’t see the point in creating this role - whether from the Labour Party that started it or the Conservative party that carried on running with it. Also we should have had more information on each candidate and a better calibre of person (who would have come forward if it wasn’t set up in this way) A terrible shame for democracy. Darren Hayday

3:17pm Mon 19 Nov 12

Dr Truth says...

My word, I hope Mr Starkey isn't suggesting that the BFP has a pre-determined reporting agenda that diverts away from the big (and slightly harder to understand) subjects?

That would certainly rock the foundations of the high quality, neutral, well researched local news service that I was under the impression we were receiving.
My word, I hope Mr Starkey isn't suggesting that the BFP has a pre-determined reporting agenda that diverts away from the big (and slightly harder to understand) subjects? That would certainly rock the foundations of the high quality, neutral, well researched local news service that I was under the impression we were receiving. Dr Truth

11:00pm Wed 21 Nov 12

faircuppa says...

Tim Starkey. wrote:
Although the Lib Dem decline is plain for all to see, I don't happen to think it's the most important aspect of this election; it's just the only thing the BFP chose to ask me about! The bigger story is about how badly the role of Police and Crime Commissioner has been explained by the government, leading to confusion and apathy. On the question of politicising policing we must be clear what we mean. Decisions over how much of your council tax goes towards policing ARE political in nature, whether decided by the old Police Authority or the new Commissioners.

Where I agree with Philbo, is that the new PCCs must NEVER get involved with operational decisions over who is investigated. That's the road to corruption, whether the PCC is from a political party or not. For those of you worried about "politicisation
" I think that is what you will have to watch across the country, whether the incumbent is Tory, Labour or independent.
Thank you Tim for providing the biggest laugh of a thoroughly lifeless election campaign.
When you defecated to Labour it was because you were upset about tuition fees. When you were not being at all ambitious and stood for the 100k job, you said you had defecated because of tution fees and police cuts. What will you say when you stand for Parliament?
[quote][p][bold]Tim Starkey.[/bold] wrote: Although the Lib Dem decline is plain for all to see, I don't happen to think it's the most important aspect of this election; it's just the only thing the BFP chose to ask me about! The bigger story is about how badly the role of Police and Crime Commissioner has been explained by the government, leading to confusion and apathy. On the question of politicising policing we must be clear what we mean. Decisions over how much of your council tax goes towards policing ARE political in nature, whether decided by the old Police Authority or the new Commissioners. Where I agree with Philbo, is that the new PCCs must NEVER get involved with operational decisions over who is investigated. That's the road to corruption, whether the PCC is from a political party or not. For those of you worried about "politicisation " I think that is what you will have to watch across the country, whether the incumbent is Tory, Labour or independent.[/p][/quote]Thank you Tim for providing the biggest laugh of a thoroughly lifeless election campaign. When you defecated to Labour it was because you were upset about tuition fees. When you were not being at all ambitious and stood for the 100k job, you said you had defecated because of tution fees and police cuts. What will you say when you stand for Parliament? faircuppa

10:13pm Sat 24 Nov 12

Tim Starkey. says...

"faircuppa" There were a very large number of policy disagreements with the coalition government which caused me to leave the Lib Dems, it was never just about tuition fees. As I said to the BFP at the time, the scale of the cuts were a big part of my decision see http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/902
1264.Former_MP_candi
date_quits_Lib_Dems/ . I haven't changed that view. I never thought the Lib Dems were right to go from proposing an increase in police numbers to cutting numbers by 15000.
"faircuppa" There were a very large number of policy disagreements with the coalition government which caused me to leave the Lib Dems, it was never just about tuition fees. As I said to the BFP at the time, the scale of the cuts were a big part of my decision see http://www.bucksfree press.co.uk/news/902 1264.Former_MP_candi date_quits_Lib_Dems/ . I haven't changed that view. I never thought the Lib Dems were right to go from proposing an increase in police numbers to cutting numbers by 15000. Tim Starkey.

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