VIDEO: Prayer ban at council meetings branded 'ludicrous' (From Bucks Free Press)
Send your news, photos and videos by texting bucksfreepress to 80360 or email
VIDEO: Prayer ban at council meetings branded 'ludicrous'
12:36pm Monday 13th February 2012 in News By James Nadal
Prayer ban at council meetings branded 'ludicrous'
A BAN on prayers before council meetings is 'absolutely ludicrous', the ex-Chairman of Wycombe District Council says.
An atheist ex-councillor from Devon, backed by The National Secular Society, took the issue to the High Court, which ruled in his favour on Friday.
Clive Bone said he was embarrassed and disadvantaged when prayers were said during Bideford Town Council meetings.
The judge ruled that the saying of prayers as part of a formal council meeting was unlawful.
Wycombe District Councillor Bill Bendyshe Brown read a prayer before every full council meeting during his spell as chairman, as has been the practice for years.
He blasted the ruling.
The Conservative councillor told the BFP: “I think it's absolutely ludicrous and even when we had a Muslim Chairman in Mahboob Hussain he read out the prayer as well.
“Everyone in the council is very much in favour of keeping the prayers.
“This is causing people to think about issues which are not really of major importance to council work at the moment.
“We have got some really big important financial decisions facing us.
"Concentrating on something as mundane as this is ludicrous.”
Conservative Minister, Local Government Secretary Eric Pickles, has said the new Localism Bill will enable councils to decide if they continue to say prayers at the start of meetings.
Cllr Bendyshe-Brown said: “I can't see it not continuing at Wycombe.
"I will be advocating for it continue that's for sure.
"I think it would be a very sad day if we ended up in a situation where prayers were banned.”
Meanwhile Princes Risborough's MP John Bercow, the Speaker of the House of Commons, has said the ruling will not stop prayers in Parliament.
Comments(29)
dtap
says...
1:04pm Mon 13 Feb 12
gpn01
says...
1:34pm Mon 13 Feb 12
.
If you force prayers onto individuals then somebody is going to come along at some point and say that it's in breach of the Equality Act whereby you cannot discriminate against someone on the basis of their religion (and discriminating against someone who isn't religious is considered discriminatory too).
Bill Taxpayer
says...
1:49pm Mon 13 Feb 12
Catflap
says...
2:13pm Mon 13 Feb 12
J B Blackett
says...
2:39pm Mon 13 Feb 12
J B Blackett
says...
2:41pm Mon 13 Feb 12
gpn01
says...
2:43pm Mon 13 Feb 12
J B Blackett wrote:Amen to that :-)
Let's all pray that all this praying stops.
sai-diva
says...
2:44pm Mon 13 Feb 12
This is a very narrow ruling and cannot be extended to any other part of public life and there is no threat that prayers before a parliamentary session for example, will be axed, unfortunately.
Bill Taxpayer
says...
3:00pm Mon 13 Feb 12
Catflap wrote:Why can't the people that want to say prayers do it before they enter the meeting room? Far better.
i really think this has been blown out of all proportion. Prayers can still be said prior to a meeting but it cannot be an agenda item as it is not inclusive to all. Those that do not want to hear the prayer simply enter the room after it has been said. It really isn;t any kind of victory for anyone.
J B Blackett
says...
3:43pm Mon 13 Feb 12
.
Perhaps the councillors could pray for forgiveness afterwards for whatever foolish scheme / policy they have just voted for and inflicted on the local population.
.
Or would praying afterwards have the same effect as when the National Anthem used to be played in cinemas ? Worth a try.
esilvester
says...
6:36pm Mon 13 Feb 12
It gets tiresome having to put up with all these ancient superstitions. Magical communications, special clothing, magic food, super natural approved bigotry etc. Ones tolerance to respect all these silly observances becomes tested.
What it has to do with council business is lost on me.
The Drummer
says...
7:28pm Mon 13 Feb 12
J B Blackett
says...
8:17pm Mon 13 Feb 12
wayneo
says...
8:46pm Mon 13 Feb 12
J B Blackett
says...
8:51pm Mon 13 Feb 12
WycombeMan&Boy
says...
9:26pm Mon 13 Feb 12
wayneo wrote:At last, an atheist with a credible view!
As an atheist and somebody who is not particularly fond of religion, I do accept that this Country for the most part is still Christian and that our Head of State and institutions are still subservient to Christianity. If people want to pray prior to a meeting then let them be, if they don't want to pray you don't have to, why ban something just because one bloke doesn't like it?
Thank you and well done Wayneo for respecting and understanding our Christian beliefs.
I'll offer a prayer of thanks for you later!
demoness the second
says...
10:13pm Mon 13 Feb 12
wayneo wrote:so going on that, supposing just two people in the room were active Xians. Are you suggesting that all the others should put up with them praying?
As an atheist and somebody who is not particularly fond of religion, I do accept that this Country for the most part is still Christian and that our Head of State and institutions are still subservient to Christianity. If people want to pray prior to a meeting then let them be, if they don't want to pray you don't have to, why ban something just because one bloke doesn't like it?
Prayer is a private thing - if they want to pray fine, but why inflict it on everyone else?
Do moslem councillors insist on everyone praying with them? No they do not. They do it on their own.
demoness the second
says...
10:14pm Mon 13 Feb 12
WycombeMan&Boy wrote:Nothing to do with respecting beliefs.
wayneo wrote:At last, an atheist with a credible view!
As an atheist and somebody who is not particularly fond of religion, I do accept that this Country for the most part is still Christian and that our Head of State and institutions are still subservient to Christianity. If people want to pray prior to a meeting then let them be, if they don't want to pray you don't have to, why ban something just because one bloke doesn't like it?
Thank you and well done Wayneo for respecting and understanding our Christian beliefs.
I'll offer a prayer of thanks for you later!
If you want to pray, do as the Bible advises and go someplace quiet to do it on your own... privately.
J B Blackett
says...
10:58pm Mon 13 Feb 12
.
That's why they like to flaunt it in public and show how good , pious and much more spiritually superior they are. Especially to the ones not of their particular faith.
.
And that's also why some where strange clothes and adorn their body with accoutrements and other things. I used to do that. But not nowadays ; and I feel better for it.
.
And never any religious mutilation either I am glad to say. Not even a tattoo or ornament.
.
.
shaky2
says...
4:48am Tue 14 Feb 12
esilvester wrote:very well said someone with some sense at last
Prayers are unbelievably irritating when you are atheist. Not offensive. Just annoying.
It gets tiresome having to put up with all these ancient superstitions. Magical communications, special clothing, magic food, super natural approved bigotry etc. Ones tolerance to respect all these silly observances becomes tested.
What it has to do with council business is lost on me.
Voyeur
says...
6:46am Tue 14 Feb 12
dtap
says...
9:16am Tue 14 Feb 12
demoness the second wrote:Yes, good point and entirely relevant; once the Buddhists, then the Hindus, have finished their chanting, the Christians, Jews and Moslems have done praying, and the Pagans, etc, are all done too, it`ll be time to go home; meeting over. Actually, though, I don`t accept that Britain is "for the most part Christian" (though of course that does depend on how one defines "Christian" ) - we are a secular society, though indeed in many ways, as you say, "stiill subservient to Christianity" - but this "subservience" is, I feel, connected more to some of our rituals and architecture (not to mention language) than to personal strongly-held belief. It`s not really about "one bloke not liking it" so much as sheer inappropriateness for the times in which we now live.
wayneo wrote: As an atheist and somebody who is not particularly fond of religion, I do accept that this Country for the most part is still Christian and that our Head of State and institutions are still subservient to Christianity. If people want to pray prior to a meeting then let them be, if they don't want to pray you don't have to, why ban something just because one bloke doesn't like it?so going on that, supposing just two people in the room were active Xians. Are you suggesting that all the others should put up with them praying? Prayer is a private thing - if they want to pray fine, but why inflict it on everyone else? Do moslem councillors insist on everyone praying with them? No they do not. They do it on their own.
gpn01
says...
9:29am Tue 14 Feb 12
Voyeur wrote:HM Queen is the Head of State. It's theerfore entirely appropriate that her portrait is in Council chambers. The fact that she "happens" (massive understatement if there ever was) to be the Head of Anglican Church isn't why her portrait is there and isn't relevant.
WDC also has a portrait of HM The Queen, the head of the Anglican Church, hanging in the council chamber, overseeing all that they do in full council. Perhaps that portrait should also be removed? Or perhaps some portraits of other religious leaders to provide a religious balance?
Alberto The Great
says...
10:18am Tue 14 Feb 12
This is after all, just another ritual with equal relevance and validity to what is actually achieved at those meetings.
J B Blackett
says...
12:33pm Tue 14 Feb 12
Alberto The Great wrote:You are correct , Alberto.
As long as they don't stop the councillors from sacrificing goats, and drinking the blood before each meeting, then everything will be fine!
This is after all, just another ritual with equal relevance and validity to what is actually achieved at those meetings.
.
My family were Druids and when I was young and complained about all the dressing up and rigamarole he said " Well , we all have to make sacrifices". .
.
I have never forgotten - especially all those poor innocent virgins.
Alberto The Great
says...
12:39pm Tue 14 Feb 12
J B Blackett wrote:YEAH!
Alberto The Great wrote:You are correct , Alberto.
As long as they don't stop the councillors from sacrificing goats, and drinking the blood before each meeting, then everything will be fine!
This is after all, just another ritual with equal relevance and validity to what is actually achieved at those meetings.
.
My family were Druids and when I was young and complained about all the dressing up and rigamarole he said " Well , we all have to make sacrifices". .
.
I have never forgotten - especially all those poor innocent virgins.
What have our councillors ever done about the Virgins of High Wycombe?
J B Blackett
says...
3:27pm Tue 14 Feb 12
piran
says...
6:08pm Tue 14 Feb 12
Maybe 6 months of no prays and 6 months of decent decisons and thinking about council tax payers and not squandering our taxes would be worth a try.
If it was their own money we would see more common sense. It seems easy for WDC to spend other peoples money i.e. our taxes.
dtap says...
1:02pm Mon 13 Feb 12